ProHormones-All You Need to Know

Pharma
361

[quote]Molecularscience wrote:
How does this look for a cycle I’m thinking about for after New Years?

M1T
Week 1: 10mg
Week 2-3: 20mg

Nolvadex
Weeks 1-2: 40mg
Weeks 3-4: 20mg

Cycle support
Hawthorne Berry
Milk Thistle
NAC
COQ10
Saw Palmento
A lot Fish Oil
And all of my regular supplements.

I have Nolvadex but what do you guys think about Toremifene Citrate? I’ve been reading that some are claiming its the SERM of the future. However there really doesn’t seem to be a standard of dosing yet.(alot of different doses being given) What would be suggested for Toremifene Citrate doses after a M1T run? Thanks.[/quote]

Cycle looks good, I would start at 20mg/day, no need to taper up with this drug.

Take one dose in the morning and one before you workout if you have 10mg caps.

If you have 5’s space throughout the day and take 2 before you workout.

Torefemine is a fantastic drug, I just got finished with it a while back. Great stuff, I will not be using nolva again for PCT.

Nolva will certainly work, just not as fast as the Tore, I was back in about 4 days from a 10 weeker, which is amazing. Not everyone has those results, but everyone that has tried it likes it better than nolva.

Its just more expensive due to the demand.

I dosed it at 120,90,60,30.

Thats a pretty standard taper, the 120 is a little excessive according to most, but Im not really that worried about wasting a little bit of SERM.

362

[quote]Westclock wrote:
Molecularscience wrote:
How does this look for a cycle I’m thinking about for after New Years?

M1T
Week 1: 10mg
Week 2-3: 20mg

Nolvadex
Weeks 1-2: 40mg
Weeks 3-4: 20mg

Cycle support
Hawthorne Berry
Milk Thistle
NAC
COQ10
Saw Palmento
A lot Fish Oil
And all of my regular supplements.

I have Nolvadex but what do you guys think about Toremifene Citrate? I’ve been reading that some are claiming its the SERM of the future. However there really doesn’t seem to be a standard of dosing yet.(alot of different doses being given) What would be suggested for Toremifene Citrate doses after a M1T run? Thanks.

Cycle looks good, I would start at 20mg/day, no need to taper up with this drug.

Take one dose in the morning and one before you workout if you have 10mg caps.

If you have 5’s space throughout the day and take 2 before you workout.

Torefemine is a fantastic drug, I just got finished with it a while back. Great stuff, I will not be using nolva again for PCT.

Nolva will certainly work, just not as fast as the Tore, I was back in about 4 days from a 10 weeker, which is amazing. Not everyone has those results, but everyone that has tried it likes it better than nolva.

Its just more expensive due to the demand.

I dosed it at 120,90,60,30.

Thats a pretty standard taper, the 120 is a little excessive according to most, but Im not really that worried about wasting a little bit of SERM.

[/quote]

Alright well definitely will have to look into picking up some Torefemine when i’m out of Nolva.

So you suggest running 20mg the whole time? I was only starting at 10 because I wanted to see how I reacted. But I’ll start with 20 and if its to much for me i’ll back down to 10. That’s good I wanted to get the most out of this cycle anyways.

Is there anything one can do to battle the lethargy besides trans 4AD ?

363

[quote]Molecularscience wrote:
Westclock wrote:
Molecularscience wrote:
How does this look for a cycle I’m thinking about for after New Years?

M1T
Week 1: 10mg
Week 2-3: 20mg

Nolvadex
Weeks 1-2: 40mg
Weeks 3-4: 20mg

Cycle support
Hawthorne Berry
Milk Thistle
NAC
COQ10
Saw Palmento
A lot Fish Oil
And all of my regular supplements.

I have Nolvadex but what do you guys think about Toremifene Citrate? I’ve been reading that some are claiming its the SERM of the future. However there really doesn’t seem to be a standard of dosing yet.(alot of different doses being given) What would be suggested for Toremifene Citrate doses after a M1T run? Thanks.

Cycle looks good, I would start at 20mg/day, no need to taper up with this drug.

Take one dose in the morning and one before you workout if you have 10mg caps.

If you have 5’s space throughout the day and take 2 before you workout.

Torefemine is a fantastic drug, I just got finished with it a while back. Great stuff, I will not be using nolva again for PCT.

Nolva will certainly work, just not as fast as the Tore, I was back in about 4 days from a 10 weeker, which is amazing. Not everyone has those results, but everyone that has tried it likes it better than nolva.

Its just more expensive due to the demand.

I dosed it at 120,90,60,30.

Thats a pretty standard taper, the 120 is a little excessive according to most, but Im not really that worried about wasting a little bit of SERM.

Alright well definitely will have to look into picking up some Torefemine when i’m out of Nolva.

So you suggest running 20mg the whole time? I was only starting at 10 because I wanted to see how I reacted. But I’ll start with 20 and if its to much for me i’ll back down to 10. That’s good I wanted to get the most out of this cycle anyways.

Is there anything one can do to battle the lethargy besides trans 4AD ?

[/quote]

You can inject test, or use oral 4AD, or any form of actual Testosterone.

Other than that, not really.

The lethargy from this compound is due more to the lack of test in your system than any kind of real side effect.

20mg/day is an average dose.

Trust me, the side effects are MASSIVELY overstated, its really not that bad.

M1T was my very first steroid cycle ever, and I felt great the whole time I was on it.

I never really felt the lethargy, I think its in people’s head for the most part.

If anything your just a little bit more lazy than usual, nothing a little caffeine and such cant fix.

I never had a problem in the gym, if anything I felt so good I would want to work out for like 2 hours and would have to force myself to go home after an hour and a half.

This stuff isn’t tren or something like that, it doesn’t have very bad side effects, people post alot of stuff but its all just rumor.

364

Oh and one more thing.

the best gains from M1T are seen in the 3rd week.

I would say run it 4 weeks minimum.

You will be full and pumped all over at week 3, but alot of it will be water.

Go for atleast 4 weeks and give your body at least a week to adjust to the gains.

My first run with it way back in the day was 20mg/day for 5 weeks.

Nolva PCT, worked great.

365

[quote]Westclock wrote:
Oh and one more thing.

the best gains from M1T are seen in the 3rd week.

I would say run it 4 weeks minimum.

You will be full and pumped all over at week 3, but alot of it will be water.

Go for atleast 4 weeks and give your body at least a week to adjust to the gains.

My first run with it way back in the day was 20mg/day for 5 weeks.

Nolva PCT, worked great.[/quote]

Alright thanks for the help man.

366

ive heard a little bit of talk but nothing really regarding needing an ai during cycle, are some of these compounds that strong that you would need to worry about using this to?

367

ive heard a little bit of talk but nothing really regarding needing an ai during cycle, are some of these compounds that strong that you would need to worry about using this to?

368

[quote]All2ez wrote:
ive heard a little bit of talk but nothing really regarding needing an ai during cycle, are some of these compounds that strong that you would need to worry about using this to?[/quote]

you do not run AI’s with almost any modern prohormones.

They do not convert to estrogen.

369

stats:
21yo
5’9 198lb bf:??

So I’ve spent the last few days just researching PH’s. I wanted to post this up to get some of the guys with more experience opinions on it. I’ll be using:

h-drol: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1, 4-diene-3-17b-diol

p-plex: 17a-Methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol

Week 1:h-drol 50mg + p-plex 20mg/day
week 2-4:h-drol 50mg + p-plex 30mg/day
week 5-6:nolva 40mg
week 7-8:nolva 20mg

*Cycle assist will be run week 1-8 x2daily (NAC/Milk thistle/Hawthorne berry/Saw palmetto/couple other ingredients)

Also plan to get some taurine to keep the painful pumps to a minimum.

Havent ordered a thing yet so it could all change but this is what im looking to run along with 3-4k cal diet and maybe 2x day training starting sometime in january. Of course ill have all my reg supps as well: creatine/Surge/fishoil/multi vit/zma/beta alanine
Any advice would be great.

370

[quote]jdarkraget wrote:
stats:
21yo
5’9 198lb bf:??

So I’ve spent the last few days just researching PH’s. I wanted to post this up to get some of the guys with more experience opinions on it. I’ll be using:

h-drol: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1, 4-diene-3-17b-diol

p-plex: 17a-Methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol

Week 1:h-drol 50mg + p-plex 20mg/day
week 2-4:h-drol 50mg + p-plex 30mg/day
week 5-6:nolva 40mg
week 7-8:nolva 20mg

*Cycle assist will be run week 1-8 x2daily (NAC/Milk thistle/Hawthorne berry/Saw palmetto/couple other ingredients)

Also plan to get some taurine to keep the painful pumps to a minimum.

Havent ordered a thing yet so it could all change but this is what im looking to run along with 3-4k cal diet and maybe 2x day training starting sometime in january. Of course ill have all my reg supps as well: creatine/Surge/fishoil/multi vit/zma/beta alanine
Any advice would be great.

[/quote]

Is this a first cycle?
Do you really think you need two steroids for your first time?

371

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

Is this a first cycle?
Do you really think you need two steroids for your first time?
[/quote]

It would be my first. Out of the h-drol and p-plex which would be considered better for bulking? If I remember right h-drol is more for repartitioning, but ive read so much lately i’ve confused myself.

372

diet influences how much weight you will gain.

373

maybe not what your looking for but here is a simple guide of PH’s for bulk/cut/mass

374

[quote]jdarkraget wrote:
stats:
21yo
5’9 198lb bf:??

So I’ve spent the last few days just researching PH’s. I wanted to post this up to get some of the guys with more experience opinions on it. I’ll be using:

h-drol: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1, 4-diene-3-17b-diol

p-plex: 17a-Methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol

Week 1:h-drol 50mg + p-plex 20mg/day
week 2-4:h-drol 50mg + p-plex 30mg/day
week 5-6:nolva 40mg
week 7-8:nolva 20mg

*Cycle assist will be run week 1-8 x2daily (NAC/Milk thistle/Hawthorne berry/Saw palmetto/couple other ingredients)

Also plan to get some taurine to keep the painful pumps to a minimum.

Havent ordered a thing yet so it could all change but this is what im looking to run along with 3-4k cal diet and maybe 2x day training starting sometime in january. Of course ill have all my reg supps as well: creatine/Surge/fishoil/multi vit/zma/beta alanine
Any advice would be great.
[/quote]

I personally would have stretched the cycle out in that I would have done something more like p-plex 30mg for weeks 1-4, h-drol 50mg 4-7. Run p-plex at 30mg straight through. It’s not that strong so you are hardly going to need to see how your body adapts to it.

edit: maybe also don’t bother doing a stack first time. P-plex at 30mg for 4 weeks is pretty forgiving (in that you don’t have to be quite on top of your supports), whereas stacks you can’t afford to make any mistakes.

375

Food in = Muscles

Food + PH = Slightly more muscle

Food + Steroids = Even more muscle

Stick to food. Lots and lots of food. If you really read the sticky and think a stack is a good idea for your first run then you aren’t ready.

376

[quote]Makavali wrote:
IMHO, all you need is:

4 weeks Havoc

Wk 1 - 10 10 20 20 30 30 30
Wk 2 - 30 30 30 30 30 30 30
Wk 3 - 30 30 30 30 30 30 30
Wk 4 - 40 40 40 40 40 40 40

Then 40/40/20 of Nolvadex/Tamoxifen

and get enough Cycle Support & Liv52 for the 4 week cycle + 3 week PCT. If you can I’d go as far as saying keep the Cycle Support & Liv52 going for one more week past the PCT.

I don’t think Carbolin 19-19, TRIBEX and Rhodiola are necessary until AFTER the cycle. Maybe start them during PCT and keep going as long as you deem necessary.[/quote]

when you say 10,20,30,40 etc is it that 1 capsule of Havoc = a “10”? im looking at some sites that sell it and none of them are giving the product info as far as dosages.

i also just got a Visa giftcard today so i can finally order Nolvadex. i plan on ordering 1000mg’s worth of Nolva and 1 bottle of Havoc which should be enough for a cycle with a little left over.

do you think itd be worth it to go on longer than 4 weeks? i think i was reading in here somewhere that you only start making gains during the 3rd week or so.

377

well slap my ass and call me susie, god damn site wouldnt even take my visa giftcard, shoulda known. either way i already ordered the Havoc but wont take until i have my PCT -not just ordered but actually in my grasp.

378

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
Makavali wrote:
IMHO, all you need is:

4 weeks Havoc

Wk 1 - 10 10 20 20 30 30 30
Wk 2 - 30 30 30 30 30 30 30
Wk 3 - 30 30 30 30 30 30 30
Wk 4 - 40 40 40 40 40 40 40

Then 40/40/20 of Nolvadex/Tamoxifen

and get enough Cycle Support & Liv52 for the 4 week cycle + 3 week PCT. If you can I’d go as far as saying keep the Cycle Support & Liv52 going for one more week past the PCT.

I don’t think Carbolin 19-19, TRIBEX and Rhodiola are necessary until AFTER the cycle. Maybe start them during PCT and keep going as long as you deem necessary.

when you say 10,20,30,40 etc is it that 1 capsule of Havoc = a “10”? im looking at some sites that sell it and none of them are giving the product info as far as dosages.

i also just got a Visa giftcard today so i can finally order Nolvadex. i plan on ordering 1000mg’s worth of Nolva and 1 bottle of Havoc which should be enough for a cycle with a little left over.

do you think itd be worth it to go on longer than 4 weeks? i think i was reading in here somewhere that you only start making gains during the 3rd week or so.
[/quote]

Yes each Havoc cap is 10mg. Running it longer than 4 weeks is risky because it is methylated but it’s not like you will drop dead if you go 5 weeks. Start the Havoc at 30mg and go up to 40 if you want. 10 or 20mg is going to be a waste. If you go with the high dose from the outset you will probably need more than one bottle. Up to you though. You really have to eat a ton when taking an Epi clone because of how mild it is.

379

word, thanks. i should prob order some Liv-52 too but my first focus is to get some Nolva

380

What about test-boosters?
t-bomb from mhp for exampe.