Nominal Prospect wrote:
Welcome to the forum.
“The two claims (Bush lied, they agreed) are unrelated. The fact that somebody agreed with Bush’s claims does not make those claims impervious to dispute. That’s a non-sequitur.”
Perhaps, democrats could call themselves liars. You do know the mountain of quotes that I could produce BEFORE Bush took office? I’ll spare me the time, they believed the same thing.
“There’s certainly an element of hypocrisy involved (assuming both claims are true), but the fact that it isn’t being acknowledged by liberals isn’t an indication that they lack the “intelligence” to realize it. Far more likely, they’re simply playing the political games of rhetoric that both sides employ so often. Or maybe they simply have different information which doesn’t point to the same conclusions.”
Most likely they are desperately seeking ANY issue to run on. They are bereft of ideas and leaders. Many of us think this is one of the worst schemes they could have come up with. Transparent and makes them look damn foolish.
“I’m not sure what this is supposed to mean. Even as a metaphor, it’s a hell of a stretch. To my knowledge, the entire world hasn’t been at peace for any significant length of time in the last century. At any given period, some part of the world or other could have been described as a “shooting gallery”.”
Americans on a large scale involved in warfare. That’s what is unique to this place and time. Please enlighten me as to the good that came come from calling the CIC a liar over this issue? Does it improve intelligence? Does it make the troops feel supported? Did it win kerry an election?
“What is the significance of this in relation to debating politics? It would seem to imply that all debate should be ceased whenever there’s a war on.”
You are absolutely wrong. I love spirited debate. I don’t agree with everything the Admin does. However, I come at this from a totally different angle then the “Bush lied, my power went out crowd.”
My criticism starts and finishes with practical suggestions for improvement.
We are supposed to be supporting our troops. Anything anyone has to say to improve the performance of the war effort is valuable. However, “Bush lied, everyone died” is worthless claptrap.
“This would effectively terminate all debate, period, since, as I pointed out above, there’s ALWAYS a war going on.”
Again, I want pointed, constructive criticism. We should expose worthless little tag lines anytime we see them.
“What realistic influence do people in the Continental U.S. expressing their opinions online have on troops stationed around the world?”
Ask them. From time to time they post here. You will see.
“None, that I can see.”
Wrong.
“If anyone in the army has his life on the line, it’s because he chose to put himself in a situation where that would be likely to occur. Furthermore, one of the purposes of debate is to determine whether those soldiers SHOULD be putting their life on the line at all.”
Please read blogs, letters, talk to the soldiers. I’ll bet you’ll find that most agree with the mission and want both them and it to be supported.
Ask them what they think about purely partisan taglines like, “Bush lied, everyone died.”
“Dissidents and the debate they spark do the country a great service.”
True. But, I propose that some debating tactics (ala calling Bush a liar without providing one shred of proof that he manipulated intelligence) does NO ONE ANY GOOD.
You do know that there was a bipartisan committee that found no evidence of manipulation of intelligence?
“Who’s “we”,”
The United States. It may not be you.
“and why on earth would you expect Austria to envelope itself in the affairs of a nation which poses no threat and does not concern it?”
Are you serious? You do know that iran supports more terrorists than any other nation on the planet? Don’t you?
Or, don’t you think terrorism is an international problem?
You do know, that iran’s President has recently called for the destruction of Israel?
Or, don’t you think it can happen to Austria?
What’s to stop them. Please remember the 1930’s.
Or, finally, I would think that Austria would be very interested in repaying some recent debts (WWII/Marshall/Truman Plan). You do know that these events are within living memory?
“Why take a strong stand against Iran?”
See above.
Welcome to the forum.
JeffR
Besides, the whole fucking middle east region has been an absolute mess for uh, how many years?