[quote]Oleena wrote:
What quality of life is worth being born for? Would you want your mother to have you if she knew this was what you would face for the entirety of your existence? [/quote]
All life is worth being born for.
[quote]Oleena wrote:
If the mother knows her child will be economically disadvantaged and she will place her child at risk by her own behaviors, do you really say “Too bad. That was the mother’s choice. The child still has a right to live”? When you are not going to take her in and protect her from her mother selling the child’s body for drugs? (and let’s face it, you aren’t or you would already be)[/quote]
Bad logic, we already pointed out that several of us adopt children or our families do. If every child that was economically disadvantaged was killed, we’d have no third world…As well, I wouldn’t be here and as we all know, no one can live without me.
[quote]Oleena wrote:
There are many threads on whether the mother has the right to choose to kill, yet none that I saw about what to do when the life circumstances the mother knew she was baring her children into are threatening to kill.[/quote]
So, it’s just better for a child not to even have a chance? Oh, guess the child will live in poverty, just kill it. Sounds ridiculous Oleena. I’m sure you’ll be a great social worker.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
There are many threads on whether the mother has the right to choose to kill, yet none that I saw about what to do when the life circumstances the mother knew she was baring her children into are threatening to kill.[/quote]
So, it’s just better for a child not to even have a chance? Oh, guess the child will live in poverty, just kill it. Sounds ridiculous Oleena. I’m sure you’ll be a great social worker.[/quote]
Chris, do you really believe that these children have a chance?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
What quality of life is worth being born for? Would you want your mother to have you if she knew this was what you would face for the entirety of your existence? [/quote]
All life is worth being born for.[/quote]
This is a ridiculously ignorant statement. The ONLY way I’d believe you is it you were willing to trade places with this kid, give away everything you currently have to the others, and not commit suicide before you naturally die.
[quote]Oleena wrote:
There are many threads on whether the mother has the right to choose to kill, yet none that I saw about what to do when the life circumstances the mother knew she was baring her children into are threatening to kill.[/quote]
Easy for your non-aborted self to say.
I’m certain there are plenty of people who were born into the worst of conditions and used those conditions to become the proud, strong, successful people they have become. Thank God they didn’t have you there to suck them limb from limb from their mother’s womb with a vacuum because you knew better than they did what they could and couldn’t do with their own life.
See? I can use fallacious appeals to emotion, too. Just like your completely pointless context-less photographs.
Wow, rarely does someone one PWI genuinely disgust me.
Talk about playing God.
Oleena, are you suggesting we kill black people?
That’s sure as hell what it looks like.
Brown people?
Poor people?
Where would you have us stop?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
If the mother knows her child will be economically disadvantaged and she will place her child at risk by her own behaviors, do you really say “Too bad. That was the mother’s choice. The child still has a right to live”? When you are not going to take her in and protect her from her mother selling the child’s body for drugs? (and let’s face it, you aren’t or you would already be)[/quote]
Bad logic, we already pointed out that several of us adopt children or our families do. If every child that was economically disadvantaged was killed, we’d have no third world…As well, I wouldn’t be here and as we all know, no one can live without me.[/quote]
I, for one, would be totally sad if the third world ceased to exist!
[quote]Oleena wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
If the mother knows her child will be economically disadvantaged and she will place her child at risk by her own behaviors, do you really say “Too bad. That was the mother’s choice. The child still has a right to live”? When you are not going to take her in and protect her from her mother selling the child’s body for drugs? (and let’s face it, you aren’t or you would already be)[/quote]
Bad logic, we already pointed out that several of us adopt children or our families do. If every child that was economically disadvantaged was killed, we’d have no third world…As well, I wouldn’t be here and as we all know, no one can live without me.[/quote]
I, for one, would be totally sad if the third world ceased to exist! [/quote]
I could throw up some pictures of what you are advocating that would trump as many as you’ve got by a country mile, but they would not last 3 minutes before the mods removed them.
I can see now why you so despise religion. You’ve made a god of yourself.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
There are many threads on whether the mother has the right to choose to kill, yet none that I saw about what to do when the life circumstances the mother knew she was baring her children into are threatening to kill.[/quote]
Easy for your non-aborted self to say.
I’m certain there are plenty of people who were born into the worst of conditions and used those conditions to become the proud, strong, successful people they have become. Thank God they didn’t have you there to suck them limb from limb from their mother’s womb with a vacuum because you knew better than they did what they could and couldn’t do with their own life.
See? I can use fallacious appeals to emotion, too. Just like your completely pointless context-less photographs.
Wow, rarely does someone one PWI genuinely disgust me.
Talk about playing God.
[/quote]
You are not admitting that the act of creating life is playing God to begin with. It’s okay to play God and make a terrible life, but not to take it away?
Half-logic there.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Oleena, are you suggesting we kill black people?
That’s sure as hell what it looks like.
Brown people?
Poor people?
Where would you have us stop?
[/quote]
No, I’m suggesting we give people the full right of God over the creation of their offspring, instead of pretending that creation is totally okay in every circumstance, but death is not.
Once again, so giving the okay to parents to cease life before it enters with world is on par with God, but giving them the okay to give life is not an act of God?
More half-logic. If baby humans were a random occurrence which we had no hand in, then your argument would stand. The truth is, every time we bare a child we are acting like God in that we’re creating life. That’s okay?
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
If the mother knows her child will be economically disadvantaged and she will place her child at risk by her own behaviors, do you really say “Too bad. That was the mother’s choice. The child still has a right to live”? When you are not going to take her in and protect her from her mother selling the child’s body for drugs? (and let’s face it, you aren’t or you would already be)[/quote]
Bad logic, we already pointed out that several of us adopt children or our families do. If every child that was economically disadvantaged was killed, we’d have no third world…As well, I wouldn’t be here and as we all know, no one can live without me.[/quote]
I, for one, would be totally sad if the third world ceased to exist! [/quote]
I could throw up some pictures of what you are advocating that would trump as many as you’ve got by a country mile, but they would not last 3 minutes before the mods removed them.
I can see now why you so despise religion. You’ve made a god of yourself.
[/quote]
[quote]Oleena wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
There are many threads on whether the mother has the right to choose to kill, yet none that I saw about what to do when the life circumstances the mother knew she was baring her children into are threatening to kill.[/quote]
Easy for your non-aborted self to say.
I’m certain there are plenty of people who were born into the worst of conditions and used those conditions to become the proud, strong, successful people they have become. Thank God they didn’t have you there to suck them limb from limb from their mother’s womb with a vacuum because you knew better than they did what they could and couldn’t do with their own life.
See? I can use fallacious appeals to emotion, too. Just like your completely pointless context-less photographs.
Wow, rarely does someone one PWI genuinely disgust me.
Talk about playing God.
[/quote]
You are not admitting that the act of creating life is playing God to begin with. It’s okay to play God and make a terrible life, but not to take it away?
Half-logic there.[/quote]
Ignoring your equivocation for the moment:
Do you believe the world would be better off had Oprah Winfrey been aborted?
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
There are many threads on whether the mother has the right to choose to kill, yet none that I saw about what to do when the life circumstances the mother knew she was baring her children into are threatening to kill.[/quote]
Easy for your non-aborted self to say.
I’m certain there are plenty of people who were born into the worst of conditions and used those conditions to become the proud, strong, successful people they have become. Thank God they didn’t have you there to suck them limb from limb from their mother’s womb with a vacuum because you knew better than they did what they could and couldn’t do with their own life.
See? I can use fallacious appeals to emotion, too. Just like your completely pointless context-less photographs.
Wow, rarely does someone one PWI genuinely disgust me.
Talk about playing God.
[/quote]
You are not admitting that the act of creating life is playing God to begin with. It’s okay to play God and make a terrible life, but not to take it away?
Half-logic there.[/quote]
Ignoring your equivocation for the moment:
Do you believe the world would be better off had Oprah Winfrey been aborted?
[/quote]
Obviously I realize the individuals in the world would be different if abortion was legalized throughout it.
You still didn’t address my question: do you believe it’s okay to play God by creating life?
[quote]Oleena wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
There are many threads on whether the mother has the right to choose to kill, yet none that I saw about what to do when the life circumstances the mother knew she was baring her children into are threatening to kill.[/quote]
Easy for your non-aborted self to say.
I’m certain there are plenty of people who were born into the worst of conditions and used those conditions to become the proud, strong, successful people they have become. Thank God they didn’t have you there to suck them limb from limb from their mother’s womb with a vacuum because you knew better than they did what they could and couldn’t do with their own life.
See? I can use fallacious appeals to emotion, too. Just like your completely pointless context-less photographs.
Wow, rarely does someone one PWI genuinely disgust me.
Talk about playing God.
[/quote]
You are not admitting that the act of creating life is playing God to begin with. It’s okay to play God and make a terrible life, but not to take it away?
Half-logic there.[/quote]
Ignoring your equivocation for the moment:
Do you believe the world would be better off had Oprah Winfrey been aborted?
[/quote]
Obviously I realize the individuals in the world would be different if abortion was legalized throughout it.
You still didn’t address my question: do you believe it’s okay to play God by creating life?
[/quote]
Trust me, I’m not avoiding your question. Just trying to reach the point more quickly. You answer mine and I promise to answer yours.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
Abortion is easy to argue against when everyone you know has had a great life and you think everyone deserves the chance for that.
Truth is, not everyone is born with that as a possibility. Some mothers realize that and want to spare their children.[/quote]
I’m glad my mother didn’t “spare” me. Live is worth living, what’s the alternative? Being dead, no thanks.[/quote]
The thing is you were dead, did not exist, unborn, not living or however else you want to word it every second of every day sense the dawn of time till the day you were born. You did not mind that one bit did you?
Olee - Of course creating life should be respected and honored. Yet killing the life is showing what respect? Especially when the children are torn apart, literally limb from limb?
By posting pictures of third world countries and the children there, that is incredibly disrespecting to the children there. However I do realize you have no base to stand on with the pro-choice stance. However providing pictures of abused children to argue for the CHOICE you want? Do you have that weak of a stance any and every time you debate?
Prove to me you can predict ALL the lives of children there and then you can use your method for debate. You will loose, but you have that choice. Wait, you can NOT do that but you want the right to kill a defenseless child here in the States? How about you respect the method which created said life? How about posting pictures of children who were NOT killed in the womb and then went on to live in this world? I know my Grandpa was an orphan and he left the orphanage during the Great Depression. Then he started a golf course and the family is still reaping the benefits of his labor, three generations later. Good thing his mother did not have an abortion!
edit - above picture is from the course my Grandfather built.
[quote]Oleena wrote:
Obviously I realize the individuals in the world would be different if abortion was legalized throughout it.
You still didn’t address my question: do you believe it’s okay to play God by creating life?
[/quote]
How in the hell is killing of the child NOT playing the role of God?
[quote]Oleena wrote:
You still didn’t address my question: do you believe it’s okay to play God by creating life? [/quote]
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
How in the hell is killing of the child NOT playing the role of God?
[quote]Oleena wrote:
You still didn’t address my question: do you believe it’s okay to play God by creating life? [/quote]
[/quote]
It is playing the role of god. I’m not arguing that it isn’t.
My point is simply this: don’t argue that you are playing the role of god when choosing to end the life of your child before it enters the world but you are not playing the role of god when you choose to bring it into life. This is simply false. Either way, you are making decisions that your god says are part of his powers/responsibilities. When you make a child you are trying to act like god. It’s a huge responsibility. What gives you the right to make that decision?
It doesn’t matter who or who wouldn’t be born, and that’s a harsh, harsh fact. I do realize what it is to make that statement because I myself might have been aborted. The truth is, now that I’m in the world, in a great country where all of my needs are met and I’m loved, I’m happy for life. But it wouldn’t have mattered if mine or anyone else’s ended in the womb and all I knew was my mother’s body around me. At some point, we will all die anyway and our lives will not be of consequence after a certain period of time. That fact is the hardest to accept, but it’s true.
Furthermore, legalizing abortions throughout the world wouldn’t end population or even eradicate the poor. In places where it already exists, the poor and disadvantaged populations still reproduce, but they have smaller family sizes, meaning more resources for those that do exist.
I am not asking for the right for myself to kill off entire populations. I am proposing that you give the individual parent of each case the right to chose their family size. Many, in places where it is legal, have abortions when they are young and later have a family when they are emotionally and otherwise more stable. So none of the arguments about killing off massive numbers are even a point to debate.