Primo: The Beautiful One.

I can’t be considered the norm in terms of doses so take my comments with a grain of salt because they are just my personal experience…it will vary greatly for others…I seem to have a fairly low tolerance for a lot of steroids (I can’t run most orals, mast I can only run <300mg/w, test I can only run <1g/w or I get very lethargic and it actually hinders my gains)…I don’t really see this as a bad thing though.

In 3 years (4 cycles) I have put on 35lbs of muscle and lost 20lbs of fat so if this continues with the relatively low doses I run (relatively low compared to guys my size) then I am fine with that.

I know mast dose is a very personal thing (like tren)…some get sides on low doses and others

[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
I can’t be considered the norm in terms of doses so take my comments with a grain of salt because they are just my personal experience…it will vary greatly for others…I seem to have a fairly low tolerance for a lot of steroids (I can’t run most orals, mast I can only run <300mg/w, test I can only run <1g/w or I get very lethargic and it actually hinders my gains)…I don’t really see this as a bad thing though.

In 3 years (4 cycles) I have put on 35lbs of muscle and lost 20lbs of fat so if this continues with the relatively low doses I run (relatively low compared to guys my size) then I am fine with that.

I know mast dose is a very personal thing (like tren)…some get sides on low doses and others[/quote]

Thanks FG. You’ve always been forthcoming and informative in your experiments over the years, and well it has paid off for you. You have improved vastly imo from the difft pics I’ve seen of you over the years.

Testing ones parameters is paramount to understanding our bodies, and that’s always been a fascination and intrigue for me certainly.

Cheers buddy!

I enjoy the experimentation…

I am sure I have probably fucked up once or twice just because I wanted to “see what effect something would have”.

More than anything I am just curious to see how my body is going to react to something so I can find the perfect combinations of doses that work for me. I am sure my endocrine system is not a fan of me constantly screwing with the doses though so I am gonna try to keep it pretty steady now that i have had a chance to test run each compound.

Thanks for the compliment about the progress. I am proud of my progress…it is not as impressive as Cortes but still pretty good for a non-pro. My body composition is probably the best it has ever been right now (I am currently a little leaner than my avatar pic) and I am not even on gear right now (just GH and metformin) so I am very excited to get back on…

I am also very excited for my body to adjust fully to the metformin (each time I add a pill I get the shits), just got off the can, had to stop mid post because my ass was seating I had to crap so bad. Luckly it seems to be limited to one or two explosive shits and then everythign is back to normal. It’s all good as long as I take the same amount as the day before but if I bump the dose I am guaranteed to have to blast one out about 30 mins later. Definitely going to have to look into the controlled release caps that Rents was talking about.

It is nice to be able to bump my carb intake though. Muscles seem a lot fuller but I am not putting on any fat, I am sure that is a combination of the GH and metformin at work though.

I will def put up a new pic once my next cycle is in full swing, should be even more impressive if this GH prtocol keeps producing results.

FG, What is type of meal are you having with the metformin? Try and get the XR if you can. You’re at 1/2g dose, correct?

[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
I enjoy the experimentation…

I am sure I have probably fucked up once or twice just because I wanted to “see what effect something would have”.

More than anything I am just curious to see how my body is going to react to something so I can find the perfect combinations of doses that work for me. I am sure my endocrine system is not a fan of me constantly screwing with the doses though so I am gonna try to keep it pretty steady now that i have had a chance to test run each compound.

Thanks for the compliment about the progress. I am proud of my progress…it is not as impressive as Cortes but still pretty good for a non-pro. My body composition is probably the best it has ever been right now (I am currently a little leaner than my avatar pic) and I am not even on gear right now (just GH and metformin) so I am very excited to get back on…

I am also very excited for my body to adjust fully to the metformin (each time I add a pill I get the shits), just got off the can, had to stop mid post because my ass was seating I had to crap so bad. Luckly it seems to be limited to one or two explosive shits and then everythign is back to normal. It’s all good as long as I take the same amount as the day before but if I bump the dose I am guaranteed to have to blast one out about 30 mins later. Definitely going to have to look into the controlled release caps that Rents was talking about.

It is nice to be able to bump my carb intake though. Muscles seem a lot fuller but I am not putting on any fat, I am sure that is a combination of the GH and metformin at work though.

I will def put up a new pic once my next cycle is in full swing, should be even more impressive if this GH prtocol keeps producing results.[/quote]

Yeah those time release tabs are a bit stronger if I recall, and as a result you can’t mess with the daily intake as finely as with the regular ones. Think that’s how I remember it…

Yeah makes me want to give it another go perhaps…FG have you noticed any other tangible negatives from the met along the way? Like bp fluctuation, or mood/well being?

I tell ya, the proto BBB has the guys on is really kicking serious ass it looks like. Just between you and Cortes, not to mention some of the others that I haven’t talked to lately that are doing it.

See ya.

[quote]egnatiosj wrote:
FG, What is type of meal are you having with the metformin? Try and get the XR if you can. You’re at 1/2g dose, correct?[/quote]

Hey E, would one still benefit from the met, if on the pro/veggie, and pro/cho only in para?
If so, is it doable with the low cho meals, ie pro/veg? Seems like it works best during mid to high cho intake, but with this strategy that only happens around the para/post wkout timing. So one might not want to throw that into that mix too, or would you?

Thanks buddy.

[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:

Personally I would just stack them though. at something like 800mg/w primo, 200mg/w mast along with 300mg test a week you would have a really nic cycle with little to no sides. I have said for a long time that someone needs to make a superbrew with this combo because it is fuckin sweet. Only problem is that they are all enth esters so you couldn’t pack that much in there unless you switched the test and mast to diff esters. [/quote]

Actually that doesn’t follow. You could expect to dissolve about as much per mL of each in the combo as each will dissolve on its own in the same carrier.

Being the same ester doesn’t introduce a problem nor would having different esters aid the situation.

I’m guessing your thinking may be from the fact that combining different esters of the same parent compound results in higher total solubility. But that is because, having the same parent compound, the only way to have different molecules, thus with mostly-independent solubilities, one has to change the ester to have them be different.

In this case, the steroid part is different in each case, yielding different molecules without needing different esters.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
FuriousGeorge wrote:

Personally I would just stack them though. at something like 800mg/w primo, 200mg/w mast along with 300mg test a week you would have a really nic cycle with little to no sides. I have said for a long time that someone needs to make a superbrew with this combo because it is fuckin sweet. Only problem is that they are all enth esters so you couldn’t pack that much in there unless you switched the test and mast to diff esters.

Actually that doesn’t follow. You could expect to dissolve about as much per mL of each in the combo as each will dissolve on its own in the same carrier.

Being the same ester doesn’t introduce a problem nor would having different esters aid the situation.

I’m guessing your thinking may be from the fact that combining different esters of the same parent compound results in higher total solubility. But that is because, having the same parent compound, the only way to have different molecules, thus with mostly-independent solubilities, one has to change the ester to have them be different.

In this case, the steroid part is different in each case, yielding different molecules without needing different esters.

[/quote]

Awesome. I’ve been wondering about that for some time now…

Thanks for that response to FG Bill.
Does compound dosage have anything to do with pain post shot, or is it strictly the carriers that are accountable for that?

I would like to hear what you think of that aspect of brewing.

I don’t know of anything that is painful when it is at a concentration no greater than what dissolves simply in vegetable oil.

As concentrations go higher, sometimes preparations are painful. At least sometimes this is due to the amount of solubility enhancer used: for example, too much BA will be painful in its own right.

However at least in some instances it seems that that cannot be it: the carrier is non-painful, but some high concentrations – well beyond what would dissolve simply in vegatable oil – of an added steroid are painful.

This has me thinking that it is not likely really the steroid itself that is painful, as if so then it ought to be at least a little painful at the more modest concentration, but rather that the situation where its being solubilized depends on these enhancers is what causes the problem.

For example, let’s say a non-painful amount of BA is used.

Well here’s the thing: BA is water soluble. So after injection, the BA undoubtedly diffuses out and is carried away, leaving the steroid now supersaturated in the oil. It may well crystallize, leading to the pain.

While benzyl benzoate has low water solubility, it does have some (whereas by comparison vegetable oil has essentially zero and the steroid ester also has extremely low water solubility) so the same thing could occur there as well.

Just thoughts on it, not proven fact that this is why, for example, TP in vegetable oil at 50 mg/mL is painless whereas solubility-enhanced 100 mg/mL preparations are generally or perhaps always painful.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I don’t know of anything that is painful when it is at a concentration no greater than what dissolves simply in vegetable oil.

As concentrations go higher, sometimes preparations are painful. At least sometimes this is due to the amount of solubility enhancer used: for example, too much BA will be painful in its own right.

However at least in some instances it seems that that cannot be it: the carrier is non-painful, but some high concentrations – well beyond what would dissolve simply in vegatable oil – of an added steroid are painful.

This has me thinking that it is not likely really the steroid itself that is painful, as if so then it ought to be at least a little painful at the more modest concentration, but rather that the situation where its being solubilized depends on these enhancers is what causes the problem.

For example, let’s say a non-painful amount of BA is used.

Well here’s the thing: BA is water soluble. So after injection, the BA undoubtedly diffuses out and is carried away, leaving the steroid now supersaturated in the oil. It may well crystallize, leading to the pain.

While benzyl benzoate has low water solubility, it does have some (whereas by comparison vegetable oil has essentially zero and the steroid ester also has extremely low water solubility) so the same thing could occur there as well.

Just thoughts on it, not proven fact that this is why, for example, TP in vegetable oil at 50 mg/mL is painless whereas solubility-enhanced 100 mg/mL preparations are generally or perhaps always painful.

[/quote]

Thank you Bill. Very nice explanation. I take it you use the former variety, ie;TP in veg oil?

Is there anything special about brewing that up?

Not if aiming for only 50 mg/mL.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Not if aiming for only 50 mg/mL.[/quote]

Could you run through the process for a slow learner then?
Lol…I’d like to give that a whack sometime in the near future I think.

I did it by adding the TP to a large clean vial, then Wesson oil, then added a magnetic stir bar and stirred probably for a day. It was then ready for filtering.

Magnetic stirring is not necessary: it’s simply convenient. Alternately one might warm to a moderate temperature such as 55 or 60 degrees C (no exact value is needed and higher although preferably below boiling would be acceptable) and shake from time to time until all is dissolved.

If you mean from Synovex or Implus, that is more complicated and I would recommend using Google to search the site, starting the search parameters with:

site: http://tnation.tmuscle.com

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
egnatiosj wrote:
FG, What is type of meal are you having with the metformin? Try and get the XR if you can. You’re at 1/2g dose, correct?

Hey E, would one still benefit from the met, if on the pro/veggie, and pro/cho only in para?
If so, is it doable with the low cho meals, ie pro/veg? Seems like it works best during mid to high cho intake, but with this strategy that only happens around the para/post wkout timing. So one might not want to throw that into that mix too, or would you?

Thanks buddy.[/quote]

Yes, but to what degree, would be dependent on personal factors. PM me, if you’re interested for a “friend” so I can get some personal details from him ; ).

[quote]egnatiosj wrote:
FG, What is type of meal are you having with the metformin? Try and get the XR if you can. You’re at 1/2g dose, correct?[/quote]

I am now up to 850mg 3x/d. I am taking it with my breakfast, lunch, and dinner…I work out before dinner so I am not taking the metformin with my pre-workout drink or post workout so that I can get a higher/normal insulin response during those times. This would be my issue with the XR tabs is that it would still be very active during the pre-workout and post-workout period and you wouldn’t get much of an insulin response during those times.

Typical meals go something like this lately:

Breakfast - 1 cup oatmeal with berries (straw/blue/rasp/black) and a bit of agave nectar for taste and a 3 egg omlette
Lunch - chicken, rice (brown if available), salad
Dinner - steak, sweet potato, corn, mixed veggies

So far it seems to be going well. Maybe the GH is playing a big part because I seem to be getting slightly leaner even with the ocasional cheat meal (fast food) and I have been drinking a lot more beer lately (it’s summer) although I am going to try to cut that out again once I am back on cycle.

I seem to be getting more vascular as well in my arms but that might just be because I am getting leaner. I don’t notice much otherwise from the metformin (no feel effect to it that I can tell, just that I am not getting as bloated from carbs like I normally do)

FG

Thanks for your post Bill, I was unaware that diff compounds of the same ester would dissolve at a higher rate than a single compound of that ester…

If this is the case then a test/primo/mast (all enth) injectable might work at a high enough dose to make it worthwile.

Is this what you are talking about FG?

But since posting this - i saw BBB’s post and now see the part you all refer to. While i had made a 6 ester test blend that was high concentration before, i wasn’t aware of it in this way.

Very interesting - and cool as fuck! :slight_smile:

Ok time for an update.

Dropped the test/mast after about a week and a half, give or take. Now looks like Vitamin P at around 900mg/week, and tren at 400/week. Feeling good, noticed the tren on mood and aggression in a slight negative way, which is odd, just like last time, it seems to come and go sort of for me…Anyway, not as bad as 800/week does you, but it lets you know it came to play,…lol.

Weight was around 200-202, and now it’s at around 205 but leaner already. Think it’s been a couple weeks so things are starting to click nicely as everything gels now. Saving that win for a pre wkout supplement at 30mg a pop per workout. Should last for a couple weeks that way. So that’s just on workout days, and just as an ergo aid pretty much.

That’s about it guys. Big difference in ability to tolerate “nicely” the trE at this moderate dose, vs the king kong special used last time, lol…No night sweats. Really pretty nice.

Strength had gone down since last gig ran it’s course, and it looks to be on the rebound right about now. Will let you know…

Ciao guys.

Hows it going ITZ?