Okay guys, that’s it for tonight. Tune in tomorrow because there are a few questions (by Marc and Dezz) to get to yet.
For now, I need to eat more than the 400 Calories I’ve consumed today and get more than 3 hours of sleep. 
DB,
Yeah I read the above and that’s why I re-phased my question. Thanks very much for the detailed answer.
Marcus and jsbrook, stop trolling while I am taking notes! (j/k)
Geek boy
[quote]David Barr wrote:
geekboy, the above Power Drive post was originally for your benefit, but I should have specified so… I’m glad you saw it though. Part II was coming if Marc and jsb would stop trolling me. LOL
The theory behind post workout Power Drive is that you’ll assist in recovery by replenishing the neurotransmitters “depleted” during exercise. Again, this is done by supplying the precursor tyrosine.
Although the novel use of Power Drive Post workout is certainly valid, it raises a couple of questions.
Strictly speaking about tyrosine (the amino acid precursor to epinephrine and norepinephrine): do we deplete catecholamine (epi/norepi) levels enough to warrant a double dose? Is a tyrosine spike better than a prolonged “infusion-like” dosing protocol?
I’m a big fan of Pre workout Power Drive (double dose), but if you want to try post workout, I’d dump it in with my Surge. If I recall, Mike Robertson does this and really enjoys the flavor.
geekboy wrote:
Hi David,
First off thanks for your advice last time round on my question about protein timing.
I have heard of two different ways of taking Power Drive:
-
Before workout, as seen on the product description and as you said above, and;
-
After workout, as mentioned by CT in his latest article.
Are both ways valid? If yes, then what exactly is Power Drive doing to the body if you take it after W/O?
I am taking Surge immediately after W/O and eat solid food (Full meal: meat, carbs and veggies) 1hr after taking Surge. In my case when should I consume my after W/O Power Drive?
Thanks for answering in advance.
Geek boy[/quote]
hehe. No worries. Probably better than McDonalds. lol. I’m sure I’ll be in my own caloric intake/no training/sleep deprivation schedule once law school starts. I’ll do what I can though.
[quote]David Barr wrote:
jsb, you were supposed to be banned for laughing at Dr. Ryan’s “Caribou Barrbie” comment last week. BUT since you’re here, I might as well get to your question about why I ate so little.
Basically, I hate eating. I have no appetite and forcing myself to feed every few hours is painful. Normally I get around this by eating more calorically dense foods, but could not make this a priority on the road.
I drove for 21 hours yesterday/this morning, which made my concern for food even less. There’s also a money issue… and the fact that I haven’t trained in 2 weeks (I was banned from my Uni gym for not being a student), took away the nagging voice that normally tells me that I’ll waste away from not eating.
I actually did this caloric intake/no training/sleep deprivation schedule during my last semester of school… it may surprise you to learn that it is NOT conducive to muscle growth.
jsbrook wrote:
1500 calories? And I thought you were a nutrtion guru. Just kidding. But why so low on the calories?[/quote]
[quote]David Barr wrote:
jsb II, ALA can help with creatine storage PWO which makes it interesting. The big issue is that it exerts its antioxidant effect through a similar mechanism as NAC.
This is significant because of the study showing that high (read: typical) antioxidant use post workout leads to greater oxidative damage.
If this excess damage is caused by a specific mechanism, rather than a total high dose, ALA could exacerbate the problem.
I think that dosage is the problem, but have no real evidence to back this up. This makes ALA a potential candidate for PWO, but at a low enough dosage to prevent any glycogen/creatine storage benefits.
[/quote]
Gotcha. Thanks.
Dezz, I’ve been pretty skeptical about the whole Greens+ thing from the get go. This stems from the fact that JB basically said “do this” and everyone jumped on the bandwagon.
Having spoken to him about this, he recently showed me some of the literature supporting its use. Okay, cool.
I’m a bigger fan of juice plus, but adding Greens+ to your shakes isn’t a bad idea.
[quote]Dezz wrote:
Another thing, what do you think about adding a touch of a greens+ type supp. to my pre and primarily post workout surge?
Appreciate the wisdom!
dezz[/quote]
DB,
How was the drive? How are you liking your new place?
Here’s a great question from another thread:
[quote] A while ago I asked you about calorie intake while on an SD cycle and you said that for a 3000 cal maintenance diet you would suggest a 6000 cal intake during cycle diet.
At any rate, what would you suggest for a diet during PCT? I think I should drop my calories somewhat, to avoid too much fat gain, but if I drop cals too quickly I might loose some of my gains right? What might you suggest?[/quote]
fedyakin, dropping Calories too low post cycle is one of the main reasons why people lose so much when coming off. I’ve seen this time and again -once to the point where a guy started up cardio to “lose fat” post cycle. I’m sure you can tell what he lost (HINT; It wasn’t fat).
I think that our thinking needs to be adjusted a little in terms of our expectations when coming off. I mean, sure, we don’t want to turn into fat bastards when we’re done, but a little fat gain post bulking cycle isn’t a bad thing.
Besides, if one is using juice anyway, then they should have no problems to use it again to cut up.
I’d keep the Calories relatively high, while using a thermogenic like HOT-ROX or an anabolic like Carbolin 19.
4000-4500/day is good to start (remember your “maintenance” level should be much higher because of the new muscle). You can work down as time goes on IF necessary, but the higher the better to start.
Cheers
Marc, this is a hell of a question because I’ve been curious about it myself.
I decided to ask my GF (who’s currenty doing research on this effect WRT fat loss as part of her gradate work) for details, but she didn’t know!
It seems as though there is adaptation of rhythms after a quite a while. This is good news for me because I’m nocturnal. LOL
You’re tricky.
[quote]marcus_aurelius wrote:
Dave
Another question. Given what we know about the circadian rhythm and how growth hormone, testosterone, etc peak at a certain time, etc, are these numbers fixed or do they adapt depending on the situtation.
For instance, normally they say that testosterone peaks early in the morning. Now, let’s suppose one is a shift worker with really screwed up hours. So, one’s morning is 7pm and one’s night is 7am…
does the body eventually resynch it’s rhythm is fit the individual or are these daily spikes in hormones somehow fixed ?[/quote]
MR, the new place is great! I have a super hot chick now living with me, who also LOVES to cook (and does so VERY well)!
Sadly, as a foreigner, I can’t stay with my GF for too long due to immigration reasons. I don’t even want to tell you what I have to do to survive when I get back to Kitchener/Waterloo. LOL
How’s your new place?
[quote]Mike Robertson wrote:
DB,
How was the drive? How are you liking your new place?[/quote]
UW? I’m studying there…
Ahhhh…Kitchener/Waterloo. I spent an exciting night there once. But, I digress…
I don’t move into the new place for another 2 weeks or so. Once we take possession we still have to paint, deep clean the carpets, etc. I just can’t wait to sleep in a real bed again. LOL!
Good luck when you have to go back across the border!
Stay strong
MR
Marc Part III, I would say that juice most definitely does raise the Barr.
If one goes past what you can do naturally (which is the whole point), then you’re right, you’ll have a harder time getting adaptations.
Another way of looking at it; if you get a stimulus for adaptation of 10 while juicing, but only a 7 when not, then your body will revert back to its pre-adapted state (worst case scenario).
NOTE: This is one reason why PCT is so important.
[quote]marcus_aurelius wrote:
Dave
One more quick question. I’m a natural athlete. I have nothing against juiced lifters, but I do have a nagging question in my head. It is this :
If one uses “juice”, does one somehow raise the “ceiling” of what one’s frame type can accomodate ?
Also, i’ve noticed many of my friends who HAVE juice often actually stagnate year, after year, one they are natural again…so, does using juice in some sense give you a CNS boost that maybe one cannot get through natural means ? (It seems actually many juiced athletes actually can’t seem to “train” as hard as people who’ve never touched it…)
Best
[/quote]
Today I accomplished a first WRT my training: I completed a WHOLE BODY workout!
I have never been able to do this because leg training is so demanding for me. Once I hit the legs, I’m DONE.
I tried something different today, in that I trained legs last (though I’m not sure how I actually got to them).
What’s more is that I haven’t trained for nearly 2 weeks due to the gym fiasco I talked about last week, along with the move etc.
This means that my lactate tolerance was CRAP. In other words, my body had a hard time dealing with the lactic acid I produced. This not only shuts down muscle contraction, but also had a lasting effect of making me want to puke.
My leg sets were weak as hell, but I managed to do them without passing out or throwing up.
I will never try it again. LOL
Vorn, you LIE. Just kidding. Wait until you guys hear Mike Robertson’s crazy stories about UW!
[quote]Vorn wrote:
UW? I’m studying there…[/quote]
Got a question Barrb Wire… Since your razor sharp:
I am ice bathing after these practices and bringing one Surge out on field with me. They put the damn times soo close together I have to ice and than go eat right away or I miss dinner. I ate Pistacio pudding 2 cups, 3 bannanas, 1 orange, as much ice berg lettuce and calliflower I could. Cranberry sauce 2 cups and a cup of powerade. I’m about to throw back 1 serving of Surge mixed with 1 scoop gatorade during meetings.
The turkey is highly processed, the potatoes are covered in gravy and the beef is 30% fat so I am wondering if what I ate was alright? I didn’t eat any bread because I wanted to get as much simple sugary stuff as possible.(veggies too) Would it be better to just take the Surge and skip the dinner and make something quick that fits better afterwards?
Also, would it be better to have movement in the whirl pool or just sit there?
Any stretches for the the lower body would be great if you got any as well. Or you can refer me to an article.
Thanks Barr, I hope this isn’t too all over the place.
-Get Lifted
Here’s an intersting weight loss tip I just developed with my GF.
If you don’t chew your brown rice properly, it will fill you up but not get digested.
This means you can eat without adding Calories!
[I never liked rice…]
Dave
Not sure if you can answer this question or not.
Is there any physiological basis for changing a program after 3 weeks (being it CNS, hypertrophy or whatever). I mean, are there any actual studies to support this or is this just dogma as some people think ? ( I’m thinking Russian studies, etc ?)
I wonder how long before you run out of catchy names(that ryhme with Barr) for your prime time threads?
GL wrote [quote]Thanks Barr, I hope this isn’t too all over the place.[/quote]
GL, this really is all over the place, but it’s cool. I was actually wondering if you were surviving camp today.
Your current protocol looks great (how are those lower body ice baths treating you?), but the meal is completely lacking in protein. Be sure to get some milk or something in you for practice (chocolate milk anyone?).
Good call on the simple sugars and Calorie dense foods, but why all the fruits/veggies?
End Part I
[quote]Get Lifted wrote:
Got a question Barrb Wire… Since your razor sharp:
I am ice bathing after these practices and bringing one Surge out on field with me. They put the damn times soo close together I have to ice and than go eat right away or I miss dinner. I ate Pistacio pudding 2 cups, 3 bannanas, 1 orange, as much ice berg lettuce and calliflower I could. Cranberry sauce 2 cups and a cup of powerade. I’m about to throw back 1 serving of Surge mixed with 1 scoop gatorade during meetings.
The turkey is highly processed, the potatoes are covered in gravy and the beef is 30% fat so I am wondering if what I ate was alright? I didn’t eat any bread because I wanted to get as much simple sugary stuff as possible.(veggies too) Would it be better to just take the Surge and skip the dinner and make something quick that fits better afterwards?
Also, would it be better to have movement in the whirl pool or just sit there?
Any stretches for the the lower body would be great if you got any as well. Or you can refer me to an article.
-Get Lifted[/quote]
GL part II, I’d also get more fat, but if you’re pressed for time between practice and meals, it’s best to save your fat until after the last practice.
To directly answer your question, stick with the solid meals, it looks good.
Have you been monitoring your weight? Do so several times throughout the day if you can, as this will be a good indicator of hydration status (thirst is not).
From what I’ve read, the lymphatic system seems to absorb damaged cellular remnants (ie molecules), and this absorption/movement is stimulated by physical movement. BOTTOM LINE: Move arouond while in the pool. Nothing strenuous though.
What do you want stretches for? Recovery? Warmup? I’ll see if I can dig some pictures up…
[quote]Get Lifted wrote:
The turkey is highly processed, the potatoes are covered in gravy and the beef is 30% fat so I am wondering if what I ate was alright? I didn’t eat any bread because I wanted to get as much simple sugary stuff as possible.(veggies too) Would it be better to just take the Surge and skip the dinner and make something quick that fits better afterwards?
Also, would it be better to have movement in the whirl pool or just sit there?
Any stretches for the the lower body would be great if you got any as well. Or you can refer me to an article.
-Get Lifted[/quote]