Presidental Straw Poll

[quote]Jeff R wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

Give them time Jeff. I don’t think Ron Paul wants to be the next Ross Perot. I think when push comes to shove if he does not win out the Republican nomination he will put his backing with whomever the Republican party nominates. I think he will push that person to make the correct changes. I really hope for Change in the Republican party. The status quo is not an option.[/quote]

I hear you. However, obama has been so painful, that I’d like to do everything I can to prevent 2008 from happening again.

That includes encouraging the paulies to take a hard look at their priorities.

I agree with you that the Republicans needed a course correction. However, that’s a long way from saying, “If my guy doesn’t get in, I’ll vote for obama.”

That kind of thinking leads to 2008-2012.

JeffR
[/quote]

I personally doubt they would vote for Obama over a Republican. I saw them say that, but it is hard for me to believe they would follow through with it. Lets pray that the Republicans will put someone up that Mr. Paul will back. He will definitely help if it is someone he backs.

Bill, I have to say that if you choose to leave the PWI page we will loose a great mind who I think brings sivility to this page. IMO your dry humor keeps things in perspective. Personally I never knew you worked for Biotest. Is there someone at Biotest we should petition to allow you to keep posting? We will spam their inbox all day, and everyone here IMO would do the same. Maybe take a week or two off, but I think that should be it unless you truely want to leave. Again we want you to stay, but it is your call.

Not a question of “truly want,” as that would be inner desire, but one of “agree with the reasoning.”

Thank you for writing the above!

Hmm, at this point I’ve really, really got to say, okay that’s it. Otherwise there is no end. So if there are any other very kind comments to follow, in advance let me say thanks. Thanks!

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
<<< I really haven’t exercised the best judgment in having decided to freely post political opinions while also being viewed as a company representative. >>>[/quote]
I never viewed you as representing Biotest in any way and anybody who refuses to buy quality supplements based on the political views of one of that company’s associates probably won’t do well in the gym anyway. That doesn’t mean their money isn’t green and your position is without merit, but I’m sorry that it has to be this way. I’d be saying that even if you were a flaming nutcase like Ryan P. McCarter.

It’s also good to see you two able to at least somewhat bury the hatchet. You’ll both feel good about it.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
<<< I really haven’t exercised the best judgment in having decided to freely post political opinions while also being viewed as a company representative. >>>[/quote]
I never viewed you as representing Biotest in any way and anybody who refuses to buy quality supplements based on the political views of one of that company’s associates probably won’t do well in the gym anyway. That doesn’t mean their money isn’t green and your position is without merit, but I’m sorry that it has to be this way. I’d be saying that even if you were a flaming nutcase like Ryan P. McCarter.

It’s also good to see you two able to at least somewhat bury the hatchet. You’ll both feel good about it.[/quote]

I am LMAO about the Ryan P. McSquirter line.

I agree totally. I need to buy some more Biotest products to get them off your case.

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

I personally doubt they would vote for Obama over a Republican. I saw them say that, but it is hard for me to believe they would follow through with it. Lets pray that the Republicans will put someone up that Mr. Paul will back. He will definitely help if it is someone he backs.[/quote]

If I have to hold my nose and pull the lever for someone why would I do it with the party that is supposed to support my belief in small government? The best message I could send to the GOP is a vote for Obama(or 3rd party if one is around).

But you give me the two choices Romney or Obama it is Obama every time. I will not have this country go into hyperinflation under a republicans watch. The last thing I need is for people to say see republicans are wrong lets all go socialist, imho it would be much better to have the country go into hyperinflation under a liberal and watch the democrat party die.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I wish Bill would’ve said “I may leave PWI.”[/quote]

The place will take a nose dive - and it will be just as boring and non informative as many of the other forums have become.
I am not particularly political but I still visit here because this is where the men are.
If the two men, ZEB and BR are not allowed room to unleash some excess testosterone on a website called Testosterone Nation then doesn’t that put the E on the Mag?

Since when has it become offensive to show an aggressive streak on T-Nation?

Many of the personalities that made this place unique have left: I remember ZEB and thought he was hardcore and liked the energy he brought the place. I don’t have a problem with it. It is good to see people testing boundaries and having their boundaries tested. It should be normal to be pushed and push back sometimes…and sometimes pushharder, ha!

If it is going to become increasingly estrogenic then T-Mag loses its integrity and corrupts its core completely.

I remember TC saying this was a place where men could still be men, and if a Biotest scientist must always have the nature of a progesterone molecule, then that does not represent the company well in my opinion.

I have liked this place and still come here because of the Gladiator ( movie ) style of people one can still find here. Even Gojira has left because the standard and the energy of the place is not as potent. I left for two years after the changes also.

Being politically correct and vanilla all the time can also lose customers.

I’ll be sorry to see him go. I always thought he was one of the bright lights of PWI. I respect him more than anybody who’d discipline him professionally or avoid Biotest because he has political views.

A bit more personally; my first time checking out PWI I got so mad I couldn’t think. I wasn’t used to it. I picked some fights (including with BR). I couldn’t stop coming, though, primarily because of curiosity. I wanted to learn what people thought. And I did learn to be a bit more respectful and that there’s no virtue in flying off the handle. The point is, if I can do it – and God knows I am not a typical PWI member – I think it’s ridiculous when other people can’t do it.

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

I personally doubt they would vote for Obama over a Republican. I saw them say that, but it is hard for me to believe they would follow through with it. Lets pray that the Republicans will put someone up that Mr. Paul will back. He will definitely help if it is someone he backs.[/quote]

If I have to hold my nose and pull the lever for someone why would I do it with the party that is supposed to support my belief in small government? The best message I could send to the GOP is a vote for Obama(or 3rd party if one is around).

But you give me the two choices Romney or Obama it is Obama every time. I will not have this country go into hyperinflation under a republicans watch. The last thing I need is for people to say see republicans are wrong lets all go socialist, imho it would be much better to have the country go into hyperinflation under a liberal and watch the democrat party die.[/quote]

Thank you John, This morning as I read Jeffs response I was trying to think of exactly WHY, I mean I know my gut is telling me that I cannot support the status quo GOP. This is why. If we elect a mediocre conservative the shit is still hitting the fan, and hard. Only it will happen under a GOP watch and the left will be embolden even further. Everyone thought the Dems would gain a long power hold after the bush presidential debacle. But what happened, bad policy and bad governing got people VERY sick to thier stomachs. Now with only 1-2 years in real power the coin has flipped and the conservatives have an amazing chance to do a 180, the country wants a 180. If we give them a 20 or a 10, they are going to be pissed off even further. Since the Tea party is thought of as conservative we will be powerless to hold moderates if the coin flips once again against conservatism.

You will start hearing all sorts of arguments about how we didn’t give Obama enough time, thier plan was working and we cut it off, bla bla bla. We cannot afford to do a 20 or even a 45, a 90 degree turn is the least I can even fathom voting for. I don’t know exactly what that is, but it isn’t a Romney.

So Jeffrey, you say it is people like me who will usher in Obama, but I say it is people like you. Because you KNOW what you have to do, unless you doubt the depth of our conviction, which would be a grave miscalculation. Put up someone I can pull the lever for, you know the type we ask for, you know the personality and policy characteristics I need in order to pull the lever. You have the information, do not waste it. You can get behind a person like that, there is no reason you can’t unless somewhere deep down, you really want big government, you just want it in republican controlled hands. Is that what you want Jeff?

We have given you our position, we have told you what we are going to do, unfortunately we are not big enough YET to do it for ourselves, your people still pull the strings at the Top of the GOP. But if the people at the top of the GOP fail to listen to what 20-30% of their conservative base is telling them, it is not the fault of that 20-30% it is the fault of the people at the top. And for their failures, they will fall fast and far. We are not going anywhere, and if we cannot reverse course, we will be the ones who rebuild this nation out of the rubble. Believe that.

V

Also WRT BR leaving I will definately miss him. I haven’t agreed with Bill on everything, but we do share some core beliefs. What is saddening about this is just how intelligent a guy he is and yes the collective IQ of this fourm is going to take a hit. Bill, Open invite. I don’t know if you will even read PWI now due to the lack of being able to respond. But if you do read and you want to respond to me either positively or negatively via PM, please do, I would always welcome your thoughts on any matter.

V

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

I personally doubt they would vote for Obama over a Republican. I saw them say that, but it is hard for me to believe they would follow through with it. Lets pray that the Republicans will put someone up that Mr. Paul will back. He will definitely help if it is someone he backs.[/quote]

If I have to hold my nose and pull the lever for someone why would I do it with the party that is supposed to support my belief in small government? The best message I could send to the GOP is a vote for Obama(or 3rd party if one is around).

But you give me the two choices Romney or Obama it is Obama every time. I will not have this country go into hyperinflation under a republicans watch. The last thing I need is for people to say see republicans are wrong lets all go socialist, imho it would be much better to have the country go into hyperinflation under a liberal and watch the democrat party die.[/quote]

I can see your logic on this. I to hope that the Republicans can bring forth a candidate with some balls to take the Country in the right direction. I would rather not vote than give my vote to Obama. The man cares nothing for the people only himself.

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

I personally doubt they would vote for Obama over a Republican. I saw them say that, but it is hard for me to believe they would follow through with it. Lets pray that the Republicans will put someone up that Mr. Paul will back. He will definitely help if it is someone he backs.[/quote]

If I have to hold my nose and pull the lever for someone why would I do it with the party that is supposed to support my belief in small government? The best message I could send to the GOP is a vote for Obama(or 3rd party if one is around).

But you give me the two choices Romney or Obama it is Obama every time. I will not have this country go into hyperinflation under a republicans watch. The last thing I need is for people to say see republicans are wrong lets all go socialist, imho it would be much better to have the country go into hyperinflation under a liberal and watch the democrat party die.[/quote]

I can see your logic on this. I to hope that the Republicans can bring forth a candidate with some balls to take the Country in the right direction. I would rather not vote than give my vote to Obama. The man cares nothing for the people only himself.[/quote]

Republicans are not conservatives. They’ve spend 70+ years try to ‘me-too’ their way into power. They get in and do just exactly the same as the Dem. That’s why we’re so screwed.

April 14 (Bloomberg) – When Sarah Palin rolls into downtown Boston for a rally today, sheâ??ll be greeted by Tea Party activists and a brass band playing Sousa marches. Absent will be U.S. Senator Scott Brown and at least one other top state Republican.

They say theyâ??re too busy to attend the 10 a.m. rally on Boston Common. Local organizer Christen Varley, who heads the Greater Boston Tea Party, says the absentees are being pragmatic.

â??How can Scott Brown stand up on the stage with Sarah Palin and not get skewered for it by the ridiculous mainstream media?â?? asked Varley, 39.

For a grassroots movement dedicated to eliminating what it describes as big-spending liberals in Washington, holding the rally in the heavily Democratic Boston – site of the first Tea Party in 1773 – represents an opportunity to tweak the opposition, said Tea Party Express Chairman Mark Williams.

â??Boston is the cradle of democracy,â?? said Williams, 54, talking earlier this week on his cell phone from a Tea Party bus headed to Buffalo. â??Itâ??s also the cradle of the Looney Tunes left-wing.â??

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a_qKEhxpDFOY&pos=9

Memo to gutless wimp Republicans – no ballz, no glory.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Actually, I’ve been advised for some time that it is a poor business practice for me to post here. I desisted from posting here – either that or I desisted on the subject – in the months immediately prior to the 2008 election for that reason, that people’s emotions were high. After that I thought what I was doing with regard to posting was likely productive anyway even though some will dislike my views – for any view, there’s always people who will dislike it.

My nature is such that I work well, or I think so anyway, with using my own judgment on matters, but not so well with having a given set of constraints that differ from my judgment.

No such set of constraints has ever been placed on me by Biotest.

My point is that if I had to self-censor to make sure that given posts wouldn’t have anyone unhappy, I wouldn’t work well with that situation. It just wouldn’t work. I’m not suited to it. That isn’t necessarily a good thing, and also not necessarily a bad thing.

However, given what moderators have said combined with past occasions brings me to the conclusion that applying my own judgment with regard to posting on political matters is unwise business. That would not have to be true for all persons in the same situation: for example someone who was naturally a very mellow, middle-of-the-political-road type. But I don’t quite fit that categorization.

It is true that with regard to use of language I could avoid that – though frankly in the same situation, I’d say the same thing again – but really the issue is that quite unfairly Biotest can wind up being painted, even if not consciously but at a subliminal level, by people’s reactions to what I write, regardless that what I have to say on such things is in no way endorsed or necessarily believed by others at Biotest. Still, the coloring can occur. I really should have been more judicious in the past in this regard.

This current matter isn’t the cause, but let’s say it was the straw that revealed the camel shouldn’t have to carry the burden in question.

Thank you for your kind words! I will of course continue posting on the other forums.[/quote]

While I respect your position in this post, I have to disagree with a certain portion of it. You see, I find it both a sign of honor and integrity, when one of the “higher ups” is able to rub elbows with is peasants (this is meant to be taken in the context of a corporate position of authority.) By you coming here and speaking your mind, in a brutally honest manor (meant to be taken as a compliment), both you and this company gain respect in my eyes.

When I heard how Tim called a few members personally following some kind of misunderstanding, to clear the air and bring those members back, I was floored, and in a good way. I have never ever heard the CEO of a company calling anyone to straighten shit out like that, and for that I think Tim is a kick ass guy in a guy kind of way.

When you have people with a lot of knowledge, most of the time a lot of ego comes with it. This is not the case with you, and believe me when I say that many of us would notice that. You have always been humble and informative, and would consider it a great loss if you left, so I ask that you reconsider. We know that tempers can flare up, and we know that we have people here who provoke looking to instigate shit, but those are the ones you challenge most, hopefully to be better after the schooling you and others provide.

To any of the big whigs who might be pressuring Bill to not post in PWI…

Let men be men. We frequent this website BECAUSE it is one of the few places where men can be men. We can yell, ass chew, name call, and downright insult each other, but have an e-beer with each other at the end of the day. I like to think that while chests inflate, and egos swell, at the end of the day we are all a little better and a little smarter by observing views that both agree and disagree with our own.

Is that not the point of this place? On being better while outside the gym as well as in the gym? I never thought having someone like Bill rubbing elbows with us mortals was a bad thing.

Let the man speak.

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I wish Bill would’ve said “I may leave PWI.”[/quote]

The place will take a nose dive - and it will be just as boring and non informative as many of the other forums have become.
I am not particularly political but I still visit here because this is where the men are.
If the two men, ZEB and BR are not allowed room to unleash some excess testosterone on a website called Testosterone Nation then doesn’t that put the E on the Mag?

Since when has it become offensive to show an aggressive streak on T-Nation?

Many of the personalities that made this place unique have left: I remember ZEB and thought he was hardcore and liked the energy he brought the place. I don’t have a problem with it. It is good to see people testing boundaries and having their boundaries tested. It should be normal to be pushed and push back sometimes…and sometimes pushharder, ha!

If it is going to become increasingly estrogenic then T-Mag loses its integrity and corrupts its core completely.

I remember TC saying this was a place where men could still be men, and if a Biotest scientist must always have the nature of a progesterone molecule, then that does not represent the company well in my opinion.

I have liked this place and still come here because of the Gladiator ( movie ) style of people one can still find here. Even Gojira has left because the standard and the energy of the place is not as potent. I left for two years after the changes also.

Being politically correct and vanilla all the time can also lose customers. [/quote]

Great post, as usual, Alpha (long time no talk, btw :wink:

I can personally say that in Atomic Dog, a section of this site that has always been FAR more visible and read than PWI, TC used to drop political comments all the time that would get the fur on my hindquarters standing up. However, I never ceased to like the guy and I sure as hell never stopped buying he and Tim’s products.

Then again, I do have to admit that, from a business perspective and as a business owner, keeping your political views and those of your representatives to yourselves is just good business sense.

[quote]Cortes wrote:

Great post, as usual, Alpha (long time no talk, btw :wink:
[/quote]

Hey! Yes, welcome back.

:slight_smile:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

While I respect your position in this post, I have to disagree with a certain portion of it. You see, I find it both a sign of honor and integrity, when one of the “higher ups” is able to rub elbows with is peasants (this is meant to be taken in the context of a corporate position of authority.) By you coming here and speaking your mind, in a brutally honest manor (meant to be taken as a compliment), both you and this company gain respect in my eyes.

When I heard how Tim called a few members personally following some kind of misunderstanding, to clear the air and bring those members back, I was floored, and in a good way. I have never ever heard the CEO of a company calling anyone to straighten shit out like that, and for that I think Tim is a kick ass guy in a guy kind of way.

When you have people with a lot of knowledge, most of the time a lot of ego comes with it. This is not the case with you, and believe me when I say that many of us would notice that. You have always been humble and informative, and would consider it a great loss if you left, so I ask that you reconsider. We know that tempers can flare up, and we know that we have people here who provoke looking to instigate shit, but those are the ones you challenge most, hopefully to be better after the schooling you and others provide.

To any of the big whigs who might be pressuring Bill to not post in PWI…

Let men be men. We frequent this website BECAUSE it is one of the few places where men can be men. We can yell, ass chew, name call, and downright insult each other, but have an e-beer with each other at the end of the day. I like to think that while chests inflate, and egos swell, at the end of the day we are all a little better and a little smarter by observing views that both agree and disagree with our own.

Is that not the point of this place? On being better while outside the gym as well as in the gym? I never thought having someone like Bill rubbing elbows with us mortals was a bad thing.

Let the man speak.[/quote]

MaximusB, this was a great post and echoes my sentiments exactly.

However, isn’t politics in America like Religion and isn’t the issue of “making business sense” that Cortes raised above the actual problem?

If you’ve never studied it, you would be absolutely astounded at the way people arrive at their decisions, and the reasons are almost never what they think they are. We are anything but rational, logical creatures, really.

What scares me is that Sarah Palin finished in third with 330 votes. Seriously, why do people even consider her for half a second?

[quote]Scuba19 wrote:
What scares me is that Sarah Palin finished in third with 330 votes. Seriously, why do people even consider her for half a second?[/quote]

(1) She’s not a lawyer.

(2) She’s moral and upright.

(3) She’s about as far removed from Washington D.C. as is possible.

(4) She is into common sense, not power grabbing.

In short, she is the last great hope for this country before we plunge into a Socialist (as in National Socialist) nightmare.