Preping for First Cycle

Pharma / TRT
1

Hello T-Nation, I would like to join the dark side of the force, i can feel that it is more powerful then the light. Ok, besides the shitty analogy I have a few questions. First a little about me

age: 21
Hht: 6’
Wt.: 235 lbs, ~15% bodyfat, i have pics in the profile
years training: 6, (5 of which I’ve been “serious”, and by serious i mean, i don’t drink, don’t smoke, sleep 9hrs/night, eat lots, eat clean, log everything (weight/sets/reps (5 years worth) and stay the hell away from fast food)

Started out an FFB at 240, leaned down to 180, (hence why year one wasn’t serious) but still soft at about 18-20% bf. Obviously a fair bit of the initial gains were from growing up and filling out, but returns have dimished to about 5lbs/year, i hit 220 within my first 3 years, and have only been able to pack on about 5 solid pounds/year (I have competed 2 times, my weight changed by only 5 pounds between shows, a year apart) and this year while dieting down, about 5 pounds is what it looks like I’m going to hit. big freaking’ deal. I’ve lost both shows to guys who were bigger then me, not much leaner, but always about 15 - 20 lbs heavier, and juiced out. Therefore I am leveling the playing field. Also both strength gains have been minimal in the last year. (see above, about how i’ve been tracking every workout for 5 years)

Here is my cycle

W 1-10 Test Enth 250mg E3D
W 1-4 Dbol 10mg 3x/d
W 1-12 Adex 0.25mg EOD (reduce to 0.125mg EOD in last week)
optional
W 6-12 Proviron 25mg 2x/d
W 1-12 Nolva 20mg/d if gyno symptoms start to show

PCT Option 1 (SERM PCT)
W 13 Nolva 20mg 2x/d or Clomid 50mg 2x/d
W 14-16 Nolva 20mg/d or Clomid 25mg/d

or

PCT Option 2 (Test Taper)
W 10-14 Test Enth 40mg E3D
W 15-16 Test Enth 30mg E3D
W 17-18 Test Enth 20mg E3D
W 19-20 Test Enth 10mg E3D

yup, straight up stolen from Mr. FuriousGeorge as he is much more knowledgeable then I. I have everything I could need including enough PCT supplies for me, my girlfriend and my dog. so here are my questions.

1.) I’ve been getting a lot of different opinions on which protocol to go with for PCT, My friend, fellow T-Nation brother, and steroid vet, has said tapering is the way to go. However I am much more familiar from all my readings with normal PCT with nova/HCG etc. For a first cycle is there any major difference?

2.) Is it worth it to get fairly lean before I start. I was figuring that I would drop about 15 pounds over the next month and a half then start a cycle, and again, my same friend as above says not to worry and that the test will help me stay lean as necessary. I want to gain a fair bit, but I would prefer not to simply look bloated for 12 weeks.

3.) I’ve read threads about how the AD would be excellent for AAS, which is awesome because I’m on the AD and love the food. However, because I’ll be bulking would it be advisable to “clean up” the AD a little bit and lower the saturate fat intake? Or would it be beneficial to go on a carb cycling diet to avoid cholesterol issues? I did carb cycling for years so it wouldn’t be hard to switch back.

I hope you don’t feel like I’m waisting any of your time, I respect and admire the hard work and dedication you all have to making this site as amazing as it is and making it such a wealth of information.

regards
ironjoe

2

haha…i thought that writing look familiar…well you know my opinion on the cycle. i think the proviron is a good addition if you can afford/locate it

you can check randizo’s cycle thread if you want to see it done at a higher dose (I think he did 800-900mg/w for 8 weeks). he got some very good advice from vets on diet as well.

i think the only way to find out if the taper works better for you than the traditional approach is to try them both but most on this site have had better luck with tapering. if the taper works well for you it is a better option because it is cheaper.

you look like you have a pretty good base to work with and have a good understanding of diet so you should benifit a lot from a cycle. biggest thing with gear is just making sure you get enough cals to grow and sometimes that means adding in some carbs for guys who aren’t used to eating like that.

Good luck.

FG

3

IMO its not necessary to extend the proviron for the two weeks beyond your last full dose shot. You probably could move the proviron to your weeks 4-10 just as well. Besides after three weeks you might hit your saturation point anyway with the enanthate.

Also I’m always very hesistant to straight out recommend the inclusion of an AI even at low dose right from the get go. Too little estrogen has its own set of negatives. With the dbol in there I guess I won’t talk you out of it. But I always say cross that bridge when and if you get there. Finally I know you got all your supplies so like FG I’m not sure you can make the move to say 375mg E3D but if you could that might be a very sweet cycle for you

4

I’d drop the proviron with your last full dose shot as well.

Use an AI if and only if necessary. Not only can they hinder gains, but ultimately make you feel like dogshit due to the hormonal imbalance they can cause. Your estrogen spikes for a reason, not just to be a pain in the ass.

If you choose to do the taper, I highly recommend throwing in a 4-6 week period of stasis at 100mg/wk.

Cycle wise, you may consider moving your dbol to week 4 or 5 to get the full synergistic effect. Also, consider doing an 8 week cycle with 700-900mg/wk? You might like it much more than the standard beginner style you’re currently planning. Results from it certainly seem to be better.

21 is a bit on the young end, but then again that’s when I started so I can’t exactly demand you don’t fire away.

Lastly, any plans on training and diet? If you wish, I could probably help you out. I love new training projects on here since I had to let a lot of my training clients go recently due to some personal issues. It gives me something to work with. Post some pics on here and I bet you get more feedback.

World

5

just got the cost back on the proviron, $130/gr, which is way out of my price range atm. I’ve already spent about 4 bills on this cycle and I’m going to wait for a few weeks before I get it. I want to do this right so I am in no rush.

Sapasion:

This is my first cycle, I think I’ll stick with lower dosages to feel out how my body reacts to it first. If I do well on lower dosages I plan on using them. If I don’t like, and the side aren’t too bad, I’ll ramp up the dosage next time. It’s not really a matter of cost, just of not wanting to be too stupid too quick. I don’t to end up like some dumb ass posting that his arm is swollen from over injecting into his arm like Mr. Valentio. However if you feel that for my current size/weight/training that the higher dose would be significantly better at lower risks, PM me and we can chat.

World:

so your saying

W 1-8 - Test enth, 350 E3D
W 4-8 - Dbol at 30mg/day?
(dbol is changing to 45-50/day, comes in 25mg caps, so i think i’ll split it to 13.5/3xD, or just do 25mg/2xD)
obviously I was going to use the dbol as a jump start, would a 2on/2off/2on work as well or not so much? that way i get the jump and the synergy? just a random thought.

As for the AI I have them as a back up mostly, and yes, I have chosen to taper.

As for diet, I think I’m going to go back to carb cycling, 5kcal/day. probably do 2up 1down split, having less carbs on my off days and doing cardio on those days as well. I really don’t want to get fat lol. lots of meat, fruit and veggies.
I’ll post a specific plan sometime soon. I dont plan on starting for at least a few more weeks.

Training: I’m just finishing up a 6 week 5x5 program so im going to switch it up to a more basic 3/4 X 12 split. Probably something similar to (really really vague for now)

day 1
chest/Bi
A1)Dips
A2)Chins
B1)Some Press
B2)BB curls
C1)Some Fly
C2)Hammer curls

day 2
Quads/calves
A1) Squats
A2) Calves
B1) Lunges
B2) Calves
C1) Hack/power press
C2) more calves

day 3 off (cardio/abs?)

day 4

Shoulders/Hams
A1) Press
A2) GHR’s
B1) Flys
B2) Leg curl
C1) front fly/row
C2) Long lunges/idfk4n

Back/Tri
A1) Deadlifts
B1) Lat pulls
B2) French Press
C1) Row
C2) Cable _____
D1) More dips lol

day6/7 off (cardio/abs?)

6

i have pics in my profile but I’ll move them onto the board here.

edit* Thanks for everyone who has and will help me out, Karma+2 for all of you.

7

Good call on the taper.

As far as the dbol is concerned, you might want to cut them in half with a razor blade ever so gently. Sure, it won’t be exact obviously, but that way you could run 50mg ED divided into 4 nice doses. Something else you might consider with this is using a sticky food, like peanut butter, to pick up the remnants of the powder.

In terms of your training, it looks decent and you’ll probably get some nice results off of it. I would advise switching it up though so as to get your whole body hammered twice a week. Sure, this means dropping some sets and changing around your rep schemes, but I am of the belief that frequency is a must while on cycle. It just seems to work that way for me anyway. Like I said, if you want some help, just PM me.

Concerning your wishes not to “get fat,” be sure you hit the cardio nice and hard.

Like I said, just ask and I’ll help you out. Luckily you seem pretty open to taking advice. Keep an open mind and someday people will be asking you for training, diet, and cycle advice. It’s all a big learning process, just ask any of the vets here-- like Bushy or Contrl, they’ll tell you the same thing.

World

8

Personally IronJoe, and i mean no offence, but i think you should drop some of that excess, before using anabolics… i think you will get alot more from them, if you got down to 10-12% then used them, that way you could cut or bulk well on them, but as you are, you will not finish a cut from that level nor will you be wanting to bulk… now what i mean?

You are definitely around the 20%+ mark.

I assume you have dieted right down to be competition shape? Why have you let yourself put that much back on during “off season”? What tested BF have you attained for competition?

Joe

9

As I said in my first post, I am planning on cutting before I start. Going to drop about 15 pounds, which only takes about month and a half at most. My photos in my profile are somewhat old, my really bloated looking one is about 4 months old, and the rest were from about 2 months ago, and I’ve been leaning out really slowly since then. For competition I’ve gotten down to about 6%-7%.

I’ve had a full year off of competition, and still have one more year to go. My next show is men’s category so with over a year and half till my next show I have just been eating my normal food plus some extras. Just like Mr. Priest in your pic, I enjoy myself in the off season, a little more then normal because of the long break, I wanted to put on at least 10+ pounds in the year, and if I got a bit soft so be it lol, I could always diet it off no problem.

reiterate my point, I will be dieting down before I go on cycle, I’m just doing all the prep work now so that it only a matter of start once I’m ready. I don’t want to rush this, not my style.

10

No probs, i wanted to see you had your head screwed on right, and you seem to just fine!

Good luck mate!

11

Joe:
Glad to see people are looking out for me. Us Joes need to stick together!

World:
I would be very pumped if you wouldn’t mind helping me dial in a good higher frequency plan. PM me when you have some free time and I’ll swap some ideas with you. And thank you for all your advice.

I’ll probably be off this thread for a while as I get ready to start. I’ll post weekly progress pictures and stats as I go. Perhaps even before so I can get a good sense of when I’m lean enough to start. If anyone has any questions for me, PM me, or post here. Thanks for your time!!

12

I don’t have a helluva lot to add here, as all of these smart guys have beaten me to it. But I agree that you should lean out some before you start, and if this is your first cycle, man, you should look like a freakin monster when it’s all over.

Good luck and good to have you here.

13

Hey Everyone, Today was day one. Just did my first shot. I think this is going to go well becuase I enjoyed taking the shot. I’m posting it in the log section instead now. Thanks for support.

14

Those steroids are going to ruin your lil babyface…haha

  • im just talking mess…

  • Everything looks good! Good luck and enjoy the ride

15

Soooo, its day 15, the test is in almost full swing, No nipple issues, strength is up, cardiovascular ability is up and I sleep like a baby at night. Pretty much the best I’ve ever felt. I have made a few changes to my set up / diet / etc

BTW: i started this journey at 215 pounds at night, I weight 240 at night now. So bloody pumped, but I’m not any fatter.

Diet:
I’ve cut out almost all salty foods. They make me bloat really bad and I can’t eat. So I’ve ditched the Franks Hot sauce for some good ol’ BBQ sauce. My belly feels much better now.

I’ve got 100CC of B12, so I’ve been doing 1000mcg shots every other day.

I’m eating 600 calorie meals, 9 times a day + a shake in the morning and pre/post workout and If by chance I wake up at 3 to pee [which is fairly normal] I slam a shake with 50gr protein, some almonds and vit. C. Oh ya, Vit C really helps prevent the bloat cramps i was getting, taking in 3grams/day. But I’m taking in about 6000 Kcal/day.

Training:
No major changes here, just getting stronger in everything, and I’ve started spending more time stretching and Im doing cardio for 30min 5 x week.

Gear
So far, the test is still 250 E3D, and i take the right before my workout and before bed. I haven’t use any arimadex yes, but i keep my nolva on me at all the time. And I’m trying clen right now [got 55CC for free from my supplier] and I like it so far all the good effects of ECA but I can take it and sleep like a baby. Anyone else find that? Dosage is 40mcg ED/ 3on/1off.

I’ll post new pics sometime this week. Hopefully I’ll be 245 by the end of the week.

Peace

16

243 in the morning now. My legs have gains gone up 2.5 inches already. I love this!!!