…let’s compare situations here, just for the fun of it:
I pay 1080 euros/1530 dollars a year for healtcare insurance.
I have a 250 euro/353 dollar deductable.
The insurance in mandatory.
Each year i can change insurance companies and buy the best insurance for me.
Cosmetic procedures aren’t covered.
I’m a single male, no kids.
What’s your situation like?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…let’s compare situations here, just for the fun of it:
I pay 1080 euros/1530 dollars a year for healtcare insurance.
I have a 250 euro/353 dollar deductable.
The insurance in mandatory.
Each year i can change insurance companies and buy the best insurance for me.
Cosmetic procedures aren’t covered.
I’m a single male, no kids.
What’s your situation like?[/quote]
What’s your total tax rate?
[/quote]
…my income tax on wages and house ownership is 42%…
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…let’s compare situations here, just for the fun of it:
I pay 1080 euros/1530 dollars a year for healtcare insurance.
I have a 250 euro/353 dollar deductable.
The insurance in mandatory.
Each year i can change insurance companies and buy the best insurance for me.
Cosmetic procedures aren’t covered.
I’m a single male, no kids.
What’s your situation like?[/quote]
What’s your total tax rate?
[/quote]
…my income tax on wages and house ownership is 42%…
[/quote]
Yeah, but that’s not a total tax rate. I’ve a feeling The Netherlands is very proficient in taxing you beyond your wages and house ownership. Am I wrong?[/quote]
…do you want me to calculate how much sales tax i pay? Counsil tax? Water tax? You pay those taxes too, so what’s your/the point?
…why not share with me how much you pay on healthcare for yourself?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…let’s compare situations here, just for the fun of it:
I pay 1080 euros/1530 dollars a year for healtcare insurance.
I have a 250 euro/353 dollar deductable.
The insurance in mandatory.
Each year i can change insurance companies and buy the best insurance for me.
Cosmetic procedures aren’t covered.
I’m a single male, no kids.
What’s your situation like?[/quote]
What’s your total tax rate?
[/quote]
…my income tax on wages and house ownership is 42%…
[/quote]
Yeah, but that’s not a total tax rate. I’ve a feeling The Netherlands is very proficient in taxing you beyond your wages and house ownership. Am I wrong?[/quote]
…do you want me to calculate how much sales tax i pay? Counsil tax? Water tax? You pay those taxes too, so what’s your/the point?
…why not share with me how much you pay on healthcare for yourself?
[/quote]
Well sure, it’s relative. Has to be. On the one hand you have a socialist state that cradle-to-grave’s its citizens and on the other you have one that is not there yet but is careening in that direction.
I pay no state sales tax at all where I live. In addition the US has no federal sales tax.
I’m not single but if I was my health care insurance premiums would be higher than yours. However, many single men your age in the US would be in the 15%, maybe the 28% income tax bracket; many more would pay no federal income tax at all. In addition, if they lived in a state like TX or FL they would pay no state income tax either - those states don’t have income tax.
I’m also somewhat certain the Dutch pay a higher gas tax than I do. Montana has one of the highest state gas taxes in the country but I still pay a total of about $.48 a gallon (fed and state combined). What gasoline tax do you pay? What tax do you pay on your home heating fuel?
All of these things add up. If you’re paying a total of 60 - 80% or more of your total income through all the various taxes Holland imposes and I’m paying 35 - 45% then we can’t hardly compare apples and oranges when it comes to health care premiums that are privately paid in the US and heavily publicly subsidized in The Netherlands, can we?[/quote]
…why not? It wouldn’t be too difficult to put to figures next to eachother, just for a laugh.
http://www.usa-sales-use-tax-e-commerce.com/ it seems to you don’t pay sales tax, lucky fellow you. I don’t own a car, so i don’t pay taxes on gasoline and such, but you’re right, taxes on car ownership are steep. Thenagain, infrastructure is good, so it’s a toss-up. No bridges collapsing here, i tell you…
…but please: just put the figures up, i’m curious, that’s all…
[quote]pushharder wrote:
To compare premiums we’d have to compare benefits. Look, I used to be in the health insurance business. I was an agent for eight years. There is a lot more to a benefit package than what the deductible amount is. A whole lot more. There are co-pay amounts, limits of coverage, exclusions, choice of doctor variances, etc., etc. The fact that you are willing to just discuss premiums and not what those premiums cover and don’t cover elicits a bit of naivete on your part.
For the record, there are health insurance plans on the market for young single men in the US that have premiums similar to what you are paying. But like I said, there are lots of variables, both here in the US and in countries where the North Sea splashes ashore.[/quote]
…i realise that. I wasn’t trying to set you up or anything, just honest curiousity…
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Let�¢??s see I quit working file for welfare and get free Medical care and a monthly check and food stamps, or I could get a job that might not have medical care and might not pay enough for me to afford food or health care. Which should I choose stay at home, live a modest life or go to work and live in poverty? Oh such a tough decision.
The system is a disincentive to work… [/quote]
Confession is the first step toward rehabilitation. It’s good to see this out of you.
Liberals/progressives created this “system.” Now you, one of this board’s most vocal liberal/progressive members, complain about it? How gallant of you to be the spearhead of this wave of hypocrisy.[/quote]
I am not complaining, I am stating facts. We are not going to let people starve, no matter how lazy they may be. So we must pay all workers above a standard set by the welfare system.
I know I have a liberal streak, but I am by no means a big liberal, I am not all that vocal either. I just can not tolerate all the free marker fairy tales touted here on these forums
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Let�?�¢??s see I quit working file for welfare and get free Medical care and a monthly check and food stamps, or I could get a job that might not have medical care and might not pay enough for me to afford food or health care. Which should I choose stay at home, live a modest life or go to work and live in poverty? Oh such a tough decision.
The system is a disincentive to work… [/quote]
Confession is the first step toward rehabilitation. It’s good to see this out of you.
Liberals/progressives created this “system.” Now you, one of this board’s most vocal liberal/progressive members, complain about it? How gallant of you to be the spearhead of this wave of hypocrisy.[/quote]
I am not complaining, I am stating facts. We are not going to let people starve, no matter how lazy they may be. So we must pay all workers above a standard set by the welfare system.
I know I have a liberal streak, but I am by no means a big liberal, I am not all that vocal either. I just can not tolerate all the free marker fairy tales touted here on these forums
[/quote]
You mean like, the last people starving in a free market was in the Irish famine, whereas people regularily starve in planned economies?
That healthcare makes enormous progress and becomes cheaper and cheaper for everyone in those areas not heavily regulated whereas its prices explode in those areas that are heavily regulated?
I would think that cheap food and healthcare benefits the “poor” the most, but maybe I am wrong.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Let�??�?�¢??s see I quit working file for welfare and get free Medical care and a monthly check and food stamps, or I could get a job that might not have medical care and might not pay enough for me to afford food or health care. Which should I choose stay at home, live a modest life or go to work and live in poverty? Oh such a tough decision.
The system is a disincentive to work… [/quote]
Confession is the first step toward rehabilitation. It’s good to see this out of you.
Liberals/progressives created this “system.” Now you, one of this board’s most vocal liberal/progressive members, complain about it? How gallant of you to be the spearhead of this wave of hypocrisy.[/quote]
I am not complaining, I am stating facts. We are not going to let people starve, no matter how lazy they may be. So we must pay all workers above a standard set by the welfare system.
I know I have a liberal streak, but I am by no means a big liberal, I am not all that vocal either. I just can not tolerate all the free marker fairy tales touted here on these forums
[/quote]
You mean like, the last people starving in a free market was in the Irish famine, whereas people regularily starve in planned economies?
That healthcare makes enormous progress and becomes cheaper and cheaper for everyone in those areas not heavily regulated whereas its prices explode in those areas that are heavily regulated?
I would think that cheap food and healthcare benefits the “poor” the most, but maybe I am wrong.
[/quote]
The only thing i understand is cheap food and health care benafit the poor , which I agree with the rest , I do not understand
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…let’s compare situations here, just for the fun of it:
I pay 1080 euros/1530 dollars a year for healtcare insurance.
I have a 250 euro/353 dollar deductable.
The insurance in mandatory.
Each year i can change insurance companies and buy the best insurance for me.
Cosmetic procedures aren’t covered.
I’m a single male, no kids.
What’s your situation like?[/quote]
I pay $897 a year for insurance, $1500 deductible, employer puts $750 a year into my health savings account. I can put an additional $2250 a year into my health savings account, and receive a tax deduction for that amount.
Oh and I get a choice in the matter.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Let�??�??�?�¢??s see I quit working file for welfare and get free Medical care and a monthly check and food stamps, or I could get a job that might not have medical care and might not pay enough for me to afford food or health care. Which should I choose stay at home, live a modest life or go to work and live in poverty? Oh such a tough decision.
The system is a disincentive to work… [/quote]
Confession is the first step toward rehabilitation. It’s good to see this out of you.
Liberals/progressives created this “system.” Now you, one of this board’s most vocal liberal/progressive members, complain about it? How gallant of you to be the spearhead of this wave of hypocrisy.[/quote]
I am not complaining, I am stating facts. We are not going to let people starve, no matter how lazy they may be. So we must pay all workers above a standard set by the welfare system.
I know I have a liberal streak, but I am by no means a big liberal, I am not all that vocal either. I just can not tolerate all the free marker fairy tales touted here on these forums
[/quote]
You mean like, the last people starving in a free market was in the Irish famine, whereas people regularily starve in planned economies?
That healthcare makes enormous progress and becomes cheaper and cheaper for everyone in those areas not heavily regulated whereas its prices explode in those areas that are heavily regulated?
I would think that cheap food and healthcare benefits the “poor” the most, but maybe I am wrong.
[/quote]
The only thing i understand is cheap food and health care benafit the poor , which I agree with the rest , I do not understand[/quote]
The last famine in a capitalist society was the Irish famine over 100 years ago. The SU as well as China managed to produce mass famines simply by state run agriculture.
In those areas where the consumers pay the bills, like Lasik surgery or breast implants services get better and cheaper year after year whereas in the more heavily regulated areas prices go up.
So it seems to me that government interference only does one thing, making thing expensive and less available.
[quote]TBT4ver wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…let’s compare situations here, just for the fun of it:
I pay 1080 euros/1530 dollars a year for healtcare insurance.
I have a 250 euro/353 dollar deductable.
The insurance in mandatory.
Each year i can change insurance companies and buy the best insurance for me.
Cosmetic procedures aren’t covered.
I’m a single male, no kids.
What’s your situation like?[/quote]
I pay $897 a year for insurance, $1500 deductible, employer puts $750 a year into my health savings account. I can put an additional $2250 a year into my health savings account, and receive a tax deduction for that amount.
Oh and I get a choice in the matter.[/quote]
…thank your for your answer TBT4. What is a health savings account?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…thank your for your answer TBT4. What is a health savings account?
[/quote]
Health savings accounts are available with high deductible plans (mine is 1500 deductible, 3000 max out of pocket in a year), where both you and your employer can make contributions, and your contributions are tax deductible. Furthermore, the account can grow tax free and withdrawals are tax free as long as it is used for qualified medical expenses. The account can be invested as you see fit.
In my opinion this is health insurance should be done, only useful for catastrophic events, while I have to pay for the smaller events. This gives me a strong incentive to actually shop around for the smaller health necessities. Also the health savings account aspect allows me to build up a good amount of money so that when something bad does eventually happen, I will have been savings for years, possibly decades to help with these procedures.
[quote]TBT4ver wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…thank your for your answer TBT4. What is a health savings account?
[/quote]
Health savings accounts are available with high deductible plans (mine is 1500 deductible, 3000 max out of pocket in a year), where both you and your employer can make contributions, and your contributions are tax deductible. Furthermore, the account can grow tax free and withdrawals are tax free as long as it is used for qualified medical expenses. The account can be invested as you see fit.
In my opinion this is health insurance should be done, only useful for catastrophic events, while I have to pay for the smaller events. This gives me a strong incentive to actually shop around for the smaller health necessities. Also the health savings account aspect allows me to build up a good amount of money so that when something bad does eventually happen, I will have been savings for years, possibly decades to help with these procedures.[/quote]
…again thank you for the reply. You’ve added some clarity to my bigger picture…