[quote]SMASHING MACHINE wrote:
bro i have to tell you, you have been ill advised. 500mg of a long acting test for 10 weeks is sufficient for any goals you wish to reach. contrary to popular belief you can easily cut on test alone and have it show. proper diet management will allow you to handle that as well as bloat if you keep your sodium in line. you wanna remain dry while using test… add 50mg of proviron ED. the cycles you are proposing are borderline absurd for a first cycle. 100x overkill. and its not only the particular drugs you are planning on… its the cycle length. now you are talkign about EQ… you wont start seeing the true benefits of EQ for a good 8-10 weeks… most people i know run it for at least 14. those 2 and 4 week burst cycles you were talking about… nonsense my friend. i truely wish you the best here and that is why i am voicing my opinion. but i think you are absorbing a little too much “broscience” when it comes to cycling.[/quote]
SM, in the short time you’ve been on this board, your advice has been excellent. And I think the advice you give in this post is excellent, too, for any average trainee who is about to undertake their first cycle. As a matter of fact, yours is basically the same advice I give to anybody asking about a first cycle.
The reason I recommend differently in this case is that Aragorn is not your average trainee. As a matter of fact, he has already accomplished naturally far more than most guys will ever accomplish no matter how many cycles they do. He also has very specific goals and they are not the typical trainee’s “as much (lean) mass as possible” goals. Because of this, I think some of the recommended cycles are good for him.
With a test/tren/mast cycle, for instance, he can take advantage of the short esters and make a short high dosage cycle with the test and tren. If he has any problems with the tren it is the ace ester and he can drop it and it will quickly clear. Masteron is probably fine for a first time cycle. It’s not usually recommended just because one should use their first cycle to see how they react to test alone, but it typically wouldn’t hurt any given cycle, either. In fact, it would probably help with keeping gyno at bay and reducing SHBG while helping to harden him out.
Also, I never actually recommended EQ, I was actually comparing its effects to the masteron he was considering.
Just wanted to clarify my case. And, once again, your advice so far all over this site has been great. It’s good to have another right thinking, rational guy around here.
I would avoid EQ just because of the fact in order for it to be most effective it needs to be run for a very long time: 8-14 weeks. Well out of the range of your desired timeline.
Something with prop, tren, and mast would be great for you, and you could structure your injections where you wouldn’t have to pin more than once a day, course then again you would be combining compounds in the same syringe. Once you figure it out, it’s pretty easy. I believe I explained the process to Tone a while back and he understood immediately.
Something like this might be good:
Test prop: 50-70mg ED
Tren ace: 40-75mg ED (stay as low as possible)
Mast: 50-75mg ED, or 75-100mg EOD
Run it all for the full 8 weeks and then run 4-6 weeks of nolva at 20-30mg ED.
Just a few things for you to consider. The dosage would laregly be dependent on how you handle the introduction of new androgens to your body.
Just want to say I really appreciate the back and forth talk here, and the consideration you guys have shown to me. And I want to reiterate that I have absolutely no disrespect towards SMASHING MACHINE whatsoever. Hadn’t seen you post here before, your reply was actually the first time I’d ever seen your screen name.
Looks like test/tren/mast is the way to go. Once again the only nervous point is hair loss for me. I’m younger, but I’ll be damned if I want to accelerate something that some of my family has.
Anybody who cares to explain, is there any discernible reason for EQ’s need to be run for longer cycles? Or is it just common knowledge?
Any opinion on hCG usage during this time? Or during the last few weeks? Seems to me that it could potentially accelerate recovery, especially with the tren in there. But then again some people are against it on this forum. I’ve always been on the fence about HCG considering the different opinions I hear bandied about. I’ll probably read up on it after I finish the school year. I’m very very tired of reading scientific journal articles. I don’t even want to look at any more until after school.
I’ll definitely search for that explanation of combining compounds World.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Anybody who cares to explain, is there any discernible reason for EQ’s need to be run for longer cycles? Or is it just common knowledge?
Any opinion on hCG usage during this time? Or during the last few weeks? Seems to me that it could potentially accelerate recovery, especially with the tren in there. But then again some people are against it on this forum. I’ve always been on the fence about HCG considering the different opinions I hear bandied about. I’ll probably read up on it after I finish the school year. [/quote]
The only real reason EQ and longer cycles go hand in hand is that undeclynate ester. I do wonder why a shorter-estered version (anything but bold prop) has never been widely available.
I’m personally in the small-doses-of-HCG-throughout camp: 250iu 3x/wk. I just don’t see any good reason for allowing the testes to atrophy, even for a short amount of time. I also like the test boost it provides.
Interesting first cycle thread here Aragorn. I esp look fwd to hearing about your results strengthwise.
Thanks for the info chillain. I’m leaning towards low dose HCG use myself. Seems to be a contentious thing on different boards, even some here.
I’ll keep good tabs on strength. I hope to start very soon after the end of school, but I’m not sure if it’ll work out. We shall see. I do know that I’m going to be prepped and ready going into this–I won’t start it any other way, even if that means I’l be waiting a long time. I’ll have everything planned out in detail for training and nutrition, so I’ll keep everyone appraised on my training schedule and results.
Aragorn… no disrespect taken at all. I dont have the best english grammer so i hope that i dont come off wrong… as i said before i wish you nothing but the best… Cortes explaination clarified things for me. i was unaware that you guys knew each other and you were a unique situation. Call my response instinct when people say “first cycle” hahaha. Cortes, thank you for your compliments. clearly you are a knowledgable man, and i look foreward to sharing information and ideas with you.
I am going to go out on a limb and give you two scenarios that deviate from the rest of the group.
run win/drol - if you seriously have a very low ability to hide injecting or stashing your needles/gear and cannot really afford to get caught by your roomates then two little pill bottles should be easiest to keep on the DL. If you run a couple of 3 weekers you should see some decent gains and stay low profile.
run test only - if you are going the injectable route then you will likely do very well on just test given your advanced level of training. i know it isn’t flashy and there are other things you could do to get more out of a cycle or get more cut but I honestly wish i would have gone this route myself and think it would apply for anyone of any level of experience. you get to gauge your body’s response to test and tolerance to estrogen sides. personally for my first i would have run test (8 weeks of prop) and gradually bumped the dose until i found what I was happiest at, where I started to experience sides, and then added other stuff on my next cycle. If you wanna stay lean and dry then use an AI throughout to keep estrogen levels low.
Best of luck whatever you go with and keep us posted on how it works out.
Thanks so much for dropping in, I’ve enjoyed reading your posts over the last months/year. I had considered win/drol before, yes. I figured if I was going to run 3 weekers though that tren would give me a better transformation effect, and I’m not very worried about the insomnia because of my already present insomnia so I think the sides would be manageable based on my night-owl nature and probably flexible job position this summer. The aggression would be a benefit for my training as well. I don’t know how much water you’d hold in that combo, which is why I was on the fence about it in the first place.
I know drol has a great rep for strength. but I guess I’m looking to uncover what I’ve built so to speak, while polishing up things and gaining a bunch of strength. I will be pretty lean going into the cycle because of my diet these last weeks and the next month.
Yes, I do have a low ability to hide the gear. Not that I believe that either of my roommates (whom I like btw) would turn me in or anything, but because they have a problem keeping their damn mouths shut, ESPECIALLY when drunk. I never tell them sensitive info for this reason. Living in a swank loft apartment is awesome but private storage space is at a minimum. As is private space in general–my ‘bedroom’ is the loft area which also doubles as the TV/den/relaxing room. It would probably be possible to hide it, I just worry a lot. I gave the lovebirds the private bedroom downstairs for obvious reasons.
I’m not set on any one cycle yet, although I have to confess a profound eagerness to pull the prop/tren/mast cycle. The eagerness has grown from ‘interesting looking idea’ phase to ‘I really want to try this’ phase. HOWEVER, I have learned by long practice to hold final judgment off, so I’m not setting anything in stone yet. It just looks tasty. Like it will allow me to accomplish my goals in one sweep.
I am hatching a wildly hair-brained scheme to do a photo shoot the last week I’m on…I want to see the last 7 years of my life in a polished condition.
[quote]World1187 wrote:
Have you given any thought to peptides at all?
IGF1 is a marvelous substance…
World[/quote]
MMmmmm. Good stuff. Yes I have. I think I will save it for future cycles (if any) most days. Digging back through some older posts I heard about a certain vet’s usage of it to “cement” gains in the arms, quads, etc after a long cycle. I’m pretty weak visually in the pecs, and biceps. I
will be hitting these hard for the first time in…oh about 6 years of training. So it’s tempting. However, I will most likely save it as this IS a first cycle after all, and I’ll probably keep most of my gains if it’s done right since I don’t think this will put me above my genetic limit in either size or strength.
Basically I think it comes down to the fact that although I AM in a vanity mode right now (for the first time since my n00b days), I’m still a powerlifter and performance guy at heart and thus I am more concerned about numbers than anything else. I’ll use this cycle to try and shore up my weak points visually, but I don’t plan on really changing my training style at all to the bb approach for the future.
I actually plan on going back to natural training after this for a long time, barring maybe a short 2-3 week experiment for pure strength.
the win/drol combo is one that i haven’t tried but is supposed to be fairly dry and give very good strength gains. i was thinking of it basically if you had little to no chance of hiding the injections.
as for adding the tren and mast I hear you on your goals. i was thinking more from a perspective of figuring out your limits. If you run them all at the same time you don’t really know how each is effecting you. It took me a little more trial and error than i would have liked to figure that out because i didn’t start out simple.
btw - I am basically doing the same cycle in a month or so (have had to put it off a bit due to a trip out of the country in late may).
Good advice as always FG. I’ll have to take some time away to refresh myself on the topic. The more I think about it, the more I salivate over the triple stack, and I’d like to evaluate the options a bit more objectively. I’ll be interested to hear how that cycle goes regardless of what I end up going with.
I gave the lovebirds the private bedroom downstairs for obvious reasons.