Post Here To Accept Jesus Christ

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
351

I find it interesting that the haters of the Bible really have nothing to offer up in it’s place.

Not even one positive word!

They can throw some pretty mean stones (for Internet warriors). But they don’t really have anything to offer as a replacement for the Bible (which is in fact Gods word).

Yea…I know your argument: there is no God bla bla bla…

Well then offer up something better!

How are we as a people better off (even on this earth) listening to hateful foul mouthed negative people on the Internet than the Bible?

Not a bad question.

I think it’s pretty clear. Most of you are very capable of jumping on the Internet and calling Christians names. And quite honestly many of you are very bright. So…where’s the alternative?

As long as your there typing offer up something positive in the way of anti Christian thought. So far I’ve never read anything of that type.

Some (note, not all) of you guys better realize that you are pushing many T-Nation readers right into the Christian camp. Some of you guys are doing as much for Christianity as Billy Graham (okay maybe not Graham, but probably any full-time Pastor). You can’t seem to grasp the fact that constantly attacking, name calling and hate speech gets you no where in terms of making converts to your religion…which is called “lack of faith.”

In your overzealous attempts at putting down JP, Stevo, me and the other Christians on this board you have offered nothing but hate as an alternative.

Um…okay you have a lack of faith…we get it…we get it. It’s all a big fairy tale to you. Is your goal to simply spew your hate on the board and type “Jeebus” as many times as possible? I think we know where you’re coming from at this point.

Now give us all some positive stuff about the way YOU live. Tell us your success stories being a non Christian. Tell us why it’s a great life to NOT believe in God.

No really…is that possible or is it all about hate and negativity?

Thanks for reading,

Zeb

352

[quote]ZEB wrote:

Well then offer up something better!

[/quote]

…okay. Sit and relax, breath in and fill your lungs completely, hold, then exhale gently until no air is left in your lungs, repeat 2 times and then continue to breath through your nose. There, if you maintain this level of relaxation throughout the day for as long as you live, you’ll be happy for as long as you live…

…there is nothing more to it Zeb, it’s that simple. You can complicate things ofcourse, but that’s unnecessary. I wish you all the best…

353

[quote]ephrem wrote:
ZEB wrote:

Well then offer up something better!

…okay. Sit and relax, breath in and fill your lungs completely, hold, then exhale gently until no air is left in your lungs, repeat 2 times and then continue to breath through your nose. There, if you maintain this level of relaxation throughout the day for as long as you live, you’ll be happy for as long as you live…

…there is nothing more to it Zeb, it’s that simple. You can complicate things ofcourse, but that’s unnecessary. I wish you all the best…[/quote]

Actually, I agree with part of what you suggest. I once took meditation from a Buddhist Preist. He was aware of my Christian beliefs and didn’t care.

In fact, he never once felt compelled to make fun of Jesus Christ. How about that?

See it can be done. :wink:

Honestly, I think the Internet is to blame for much of the negative hate filled commentary that takes the place of good conversation. Being annonymous and typing back and forth from hundreds of miles away gives people a certain freedom. And people, being the sinners that we are, just can’t help but push the envelope. I’m just as guilty as the rest at times.

The Buddhist Priest taught me a great deal about meditation and I think it was rather helpful. I still use some of those techniques today.

While I don’t accept Buddhism as my religion. Quite honestly from what I’ve read Buddha never made a claim that “Buddhism” was a religion. But, it’s a very decent philosophy. And the meditation practice is helpful in many ways.

A quick look back at the “Tenfold Precepts” of Buddhism are as follows:

The First Precept: I undertake the training of loving kindness; I abstain from killing living beings.

(Similar to “Thou shalt not murder” the 6th Commandment.)

The Second Precept: I undertake the training of generosity; I abstain from stealing.

(Thou shalt not steal. The 8th commandment.)

The Third Precept: I undertake the training of simplicity and contentment; I abstain from sexual misconduct.

(Maybe a cousin of “Thou shall not commit adultery.” The 7th commandment.)

The Fourth Precept: I abstain from false speech; I undertake the training of truthful communication.

(“Thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor” Number 9!)

The Fifth Precept: I undertake the training of kindly speech; I abstain from harsh speech.

(This is a good one for all of us T-Nation Internet warriors…lol)

The Sixth Precept: I undertake the training of meaningful speech; I abstain from frivolous speech.

(The New Testament calls this "Godless chatter, which leads to sin.)

The Seventh Precept: I undertake the training of harmonious speech; I abstain from slanderous speech.

(Again…“Thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor” Ninth commandment)

The Eighth Precept: I undertake the training of tranquility; I abstain from greed.

(1Corinthians 6:9"…nor the greedy…shall inherit the kingdom of heaven." Also similar to the 10th commandment: “Thou shall not covet your neighbor’s house…”)

The Ninth Precept: I undertake the training of compassion: I abstain from hatred.

(It was Jesus Christ himself who said to “love your enemies.”)

The Tenth Precept: I undertake the training of wisdom: I abstain from self-centered views.

(Again Jesus Christ said to love your neighbor as yourself." This removes the self-centered view.)

There are many similarities here. Naturally, Jesus Christ is not preached in Buddhism. But again, it’s a nice philosophy.

ephrem, thanks very much for the positive contribution!

You are restoring my faith in atheists!

Hmm…that didn’t come out right huh?

LOL

Take care,

Zeb

354

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I find it interesting that the haters of the Bible really have nothing to offer up in it’s place.

Not even one positive word!

They can throw some pretty mean stones (for Internet warriors). But they don’t really have anything to offer as a replacement for the Bible (which is in fact Gods word).

Yea…I know your argument: there is no God bla bla bla…

Well then offer up something better!

How are we as a people better off (even on this earth) listening to hateful foul mouthed negative people on the Internet than the Bible?

Not a bad question.

I think it’s pretty clear. Most of you are very capable of jumping on the Internet and calling Christians names. And quite honestly many of you are very bright. So…where’s the alternative?

As long as your there typing offer up something positive in the way of anti Christian thought. So far I’ve never read anything of that type.

Some (note, not all) of you guys better realize that you are pushing many T-Nation readers right into the Christian camp. Some of you guys are doing as much for Christianity as Billy Graham (okay maybe not Graham, but probably any full-time Pastor). You can’t seem to grasp the fact that constantly attacking, name calling and hate speech gets you no where in terms of making converts to your religion…which is called “lack of faith.”

In your overzealous attempts at putting down JP, Stevo, me and the other Christians on this board you have offered nothing but hate as an alternative.

Um…okay you have a lack of faith…we get it…we get it. It’s all a big fairy tale to you. Is your goal to simply spew your hate on the board and type “Jeebus” as many times as possible? I think we know where you’re coming from at this point.

Now give us all some positive stuff about the way YOU live. Tell us your success stories being a non Christian. Tell us why it’s a great life to NOT believe in God.

No really…is that possible or is it all about hate and negativity?

Thanks for reading,

Zeb

[/quote]

Here you go: be kind and compassionate to all you meet. Reject that which is hateful or ignorant. Golden Rule.

See? No blather about how we’re all “sinners” or “born evil” and magic tricks and floods and utter silliness.

Easy-peasy.

355

[quote]harris447 wrote:

Here you go: be kind and compassionate to all you meet. Reject that which is hateful or ignorant. Golden Rule.[/quote]

This part of your post is is one very positive contribution and it’s also Biblical!

I thank you harris.

356

[quote]ZEB wrote:

In fact, he never once felt compelled to make fun of Jesus Christ. How about that?[/quote]

…i don’t think J.C. is the problem. Many of his followers are however (-:

…you are right, buddhism isn’t a religion, and Gautama Buddha’s birth actually predates J.C.'s by about 6 centuries. Not that that is important, but it does show that certain truths aren’t the exclusive domain of one specific religion or philosophy. Diversity is what makes mankind so fascinating, let’s embrace and celebrate that instead of feeding the void of conviction…

…do you know about the stories of Jesus going to India during his ‘missing’ years? He supposedly studied oriental philosophy before he returned to Isra?l. How’s that for oecomanical?

[quote]ephrem, thanks very much for the positive contribution!

You are restoring my faith in atheists!

Hmm…that didn’t come out right huh?

LOL

Take care,

Zeb[/quote]

…happy to be of service Zeb, good night (-:

[/quote]

357

[quote]JPBear wrote:
why do we as humans feel so right when we kill a virus?[/quote]

(actually, viruses are not alive. But I get your point and your question.)

Because viruses are a threat to our survival. We “feel right” because feeling right about killing or destroying threats to our survival is a behavior that got “selected in”, i.e., life forms who exhibited it were more likely to successfully reproduce.

[quote]JPBear wrote:
And what has caused countless dictators over history to kill so many people? What was driving them?[/quote]

That is another behavior that got reinforced and “selected in”. The most famous example is of Genghis Khan, a brutal dictator that was so successful in spreading his seed and killing off his competition that it is estimated that 30% of Asians are his descendents.

Do realize that he was probably still very “moral” with the people he did not see as competition – much like many Christians are kind and moral with other Christians but are perfectly willing to kill non-Christians (e.g., the Inquisition, the Crusades, etc.) – another behavior that got selected in.

[quote]JPBear
Will goodness eventually spread to all people?[/quote]

No. Even assuming that you are using the same definition of goodness as I am (i.e., “whatever improves our quality of life”), as I explained, the fragility of DNA (i.e., random mutations) and other factors like conditioning preclude that.

[quote]JPBear wrote:
And if the root cause of goodness is the desire to protect self, why are we ever concerned when strangers practice self destructive behaviors?[/quote]

That is another behavior that got selected in. Why? The same things that cause self-destructive behaviors are the ones that drive people to attack others. People who want to self destruct typically are also much more prone to destroying others. Psychiatrists have proven that a long time ago, but much before that the behavior of worrying about those people (and their psychotic behavior) got “selected in” – quite possibly humans that did not worry about people with mental diseases in their tribes eventually got killed by them in a murder-suicide spree…

[quote]JPBear wrote]
I can’t remember if it was you who gave the monkey at the keyboard argument, but here is my answer to that. You would need a greater intelligence to come and order the letters. Now, if you could claim that a monkey would eventually produce the ordered works of Shakespeare, then you would be on to something. [/quote]

I think you are not grasping the concept of infinity, or of very large numbers, which was my suspicion (so, you are proving me right).

Maybe I wasn’t clear, but let me be this time: I CAN claim that a monkey would eventually produce the ORDERED works of Shakespeare.

To give you some idea of the numbers involved in our History:

The Universe is 14 BILLION years old and the Solar System is 5 BILLION years old. That’s 5,000,000,000 years.

The most widely accepted view among current anthropologists is that we showed up in the African savanna between 200,000 and 250,000 years ago, descending from Homo erectus, and colonized the Eurasia and Oceania by 40,000 years ago, and finally colonized the Americas by 10,000 years ago. During this process we displaced and killed our similarly intelligent cousins Homo sapiens idaltu, Homo neanderthalensis, Homo floresiensis and other species descended from Homo erectus (which had colonized Eurasia as early as 2,000,000 years ago) through more successful reproduction and competition for resources.

Hence my claim that we could not be any different from what we are now, or we wouldn’t exist – slightly (extremely slightly) different cousin species no longer do.

That also means that our particular species has only existed for about 0.005% of the Earth’s history. Yes, that’s five thousandth of a percent of the Earth’s age – a little tiny speck in Earth’s existence, and an even tinier speck in the Universe’s existence.

So that monkey was typing for REAL long time before we came out – in fact, for 13,999,750,000 years.

Furthermore, since there are actually about 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the Universe (that’s a 10 followed by 21 zeros) he was typing REAL fast too…

13,999,750,000 years
1 of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars

Let it sink in for a moment… and think about it.

Doesn’t sound that ridiculous, does it?

358

hspder,

Yes, it does sound absolutely ridiculous. I am once again relieved that I did not waste time or money on a university degree. Not that I am claiming all professors think like you - my Bible study leader is a university professor with a doctorate in molecular biology - but most do I’m guessing.

I don’t believe that the monkey would ever create the selected works of Shakespeare. I’m sorry but I don’t. You actually believe this? And were not just talking about Shakespere here, we are talking about the entire universe with all it’s amazing complexities and systems. You must be pretty desperate to not believe in a creator in order to believe this.

You still did not offer anything but far fetched hypothesis and you still didn’t explain how a bunch of nothing turned into an ordered everything.

Also, I do understand the concept of infinity. And that universe that you described? The Bible says that God measures it with His hand. Are you conceding that something must have been infinite? Without beginning and without end? Outside the realm of time?

As a side note, it is hard to convey tone in an email, so I hope this is not coming off in any sort of a rude tone. If it is I apologize. :slight_smile:

359

LOL. JPBear, your answer highlights one of the many problems I have.

You don’t get to pick and chooes “true Christians” or “real Christians” in such a simple way.

While it is perhaps non-Christians that have twisted the word, there are honest and believing Christians who have gone along with the twisting.

My contention is that any “Word of God” would not be succeptable to such twistings by mere men. I’d suggest this misuse and misapplication of the Bible proves it isn’t the “Word of God”.

If the Bible is the best God can do, I’m afraid it isn’t good enough. We don’t need a belief system that can be twisted to cause believers to kill innocent people, conduct crusades and so forth in it’s name. Similarly, Islamic and Jewish faiths fail for the same reasons.

However, be clear, unlike Steveo, realize that suggesting it is not the “Word of God” but the interpretations of man does not mean it is rejected or falls on deaf ears.

However, such a realization does remove the pressure to “follow” such twistings by others. It is fine that God be the ultimate authority, but the point that we let men interpret that authority and compel actions, we get into trouble.

And oh boy, do we ever get into a lot of trouble on this planet.

Like it or not, fanatical or literal interpretations of religion have been the cause of more strife and suffering than can be fathomed. That, considering the messages of nearly all religions, is completely unconscionable and I will never condone it or support it.

If God wanted us to have His Word, it would be delivered in person, such that we would not be suffered misinterpretation. However, such delivery would obviate the need for faith, wouldn’t it?

Logically, based on the need for faith in religion, the Word of God is therefore denied to us, such that it does require faith to believe. Sadly, many choose to believe the “Word of Man” and elevate it to the “Word of God” and they have made the wrong choice.

Our minds and our free will were given to us so that we could think and make choices based on our own perceptions, not the words of men who have been dead for thousands of years and have never faced, considered and could probably not even comprehend the circumstances that we now face.

Sad indeed that religion is a force for stopping the use of our brains, limiting our progress and setting us up to have enmity with other people on the planet, over and over again.

Or, are you telling me that this conflict, pain, suffering, war, attrocity and twisting for evil purposes is actually what God wanted? You follow that God, the brain I have rejects leadership with those results – not by rejecting God, but the word of Man which attempts to represent itself as the Word or Will of God.

360

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
miniross wrote:
No, now let this bloody thread die.

Why?

Why do you wish to let something that might interest someone to wake up to the reality of eternity and be saved?

Miniross – do you want to go to heaven when you die? Do you care?

Why or why not?

You involve yourself in so many issues that mean nothing when compared to eternal salvation.

Think about it…[/quote]

We’re British dude, we don’t do religion.

362

[quote]JPBear wrote:
Yes, it does sound absolutely ridiculous.
[…]
As a side note, it is hard to convey tone in an email, so I hope this is not coming off in any sort of a rude tone. If it is I apologize. :slight_smile: [/quote]

That’s OK, I understand and respect your beliefs, and I am not trying to change them. As long as you respect mine too, it’s all good!

363

[quote]ephrem wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

That is only your belief . You can choose to believe this, but you must realize that unlike Christian belief which is based upon the Word of God, your belief here is made up out of your head.

…now this is unbelievable ((-: Belief is belief, no matter how you label it, Steve. That you can write this with a straight face is pretty impressive…[/quote]

What are you talking about? My comment here was that the poster was expressing his beliefs, but, unlike Christian belief which is grounded upon God’s Word (The Bible), his belief was just from his head. In other words, where is the authority in his belief. I can believe anything I choose, but when eternity is at stake, I would make certain that I am grounded in something more sure than – “well I just believe it because I do.”

What is so hard to comprehend? I am puzzled by your seeming surprise at my comments.

364

[quote]harris447 wrote:
Why are you guys even arguing with these idiots?

They’re grown adults believe in fairy tales and magic.

Were it not for the fact that millions of other people share their delusions, they would be put in mental hospitals.[/quote]

Harris,

For the record, are you saying that Christians who believe as I do in the United States of America, should be put into mental hospitals agains our will? Is that what you are saying?

Please explain, because I think you have lost whatever credibility you didn’t have in the first place…

365

[quote]Dr. Stig wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
miniross wrote:
No, now let this bloody thread die.

Why?

Why do you wish to let something that might interest someone to wake up to the reality of eternity and be saved?

Miniross – do you want to go to heaven when you die? Do you care?

Why or why not?

You involve yourself in so many issues that mean nothing when compared to eternal salvation.

Think about it…

We’re British dude, we don’t do religion.

[/quote]

Wow – I believe I am vindicated for my “England has lost its soul” comment from the other day!

Too bad, I actually want to be wrong.

366

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

“My kind,” Harris? Now, could anyone get away with saying this to anyone from another group, except born-again Christians?

Blacks don’t try to get other people to be black.

Besides this, you people (yea I said it, “You people”. Deal with it) are so fucking self righteous its disgusting. When it comes down to it, you believe your cult and leave the rest of us the hell alone. If we want the kool aid, we’ll drink it.

“My kind,” happens to be those who do care very much for the souls of others. Otherwise, trust me, I have plenty other things to do.

Like what? All I see you doing here is trying to get internet converts to your overzealous religion. You are a hypocrite and a bullshitter, just like the holy rollers in Washington now.

Harris, you have serious issues…

He’s not the one preaching the glory of god on the internet. You might want to reverse that.

You also have serious issues. You should consider anger management or something.

As for JP’s crying because those who reject Christ will spend eternity in Hell fire. That just shows her compassion for people. What other people – except for born-again Chrisitans – that show compassion for others, get this type of treatment.

Anyway, I forgive all of your negative, foul-language, derisive, comments. God can forgive all of your sins, Irish. You need to humble yourself and come to Him…

I don’t care if you forgive me. In fact, I hope you don’t.

Again, get off your high fucking horse and stop making it seem like Christians are persecuted and singled out. You’re 85% percent of the population in the US, and the largest religious group in the world.

Stop crying about this made up persecution bullshit. You guys aren’t oppressed, and you can’t be persecuted when your the biggest group of people in the whole goddamn world. Get a grip.[/quote]

Happy Mother’s Day to you too!

367

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Why are you guys even arguing with these idiots?

They’re grown adults believe in fairy tales and magic.

Were it not for the fact that millions of other people share their delusions, they would be put in mental hospitals.

Harris,

For the record, are you saying that Christians who believe as I do in the United States of America, should be put into mental hospitals agains our will? Is that what you are saying?

Please explain, because I think you have lost whatever credibility you didn’t have in the first place…[/quote]

Well, I’m pretty sure if there’s an arbiter of credibility on this board, it ain’t you, but…

My point is that if there were only ONE PERSON in the world who believed that there was this mystical, all-knowing, all-seeing being who created the universe but somehow found time to care about every single individual’s meals and hats.

This being then impregnated a woman–with magic–and that person had superpowers, like Spider-Man with sandals, and he died but CAME BACK TO LIFE and now watches everything we do.

If just one person believed that…we’d call him a lunatic.

But, since A LOT of people believe it, it’s called reigion.

That’s my point.

368

[quote]vroom wrote:
Steveo,

Sadly for you, there is no such thing as the “word of God”. What we do have is the writings of men on the subject of God and their interpretation of how we should live according to God.

Until you can wedge that realization into your head you will continue to be a clueless fanatic.

Never, in all of history, has mankind been able to get a story right. After thousands of years of advancement in education, in understanding, in science, in social theory, in economy, we still can’t do it.

I already know your answer, but how in all reality can you expect the rigid thinking brutal survivalist relatively uneducated people of the era that existed several thousand years ago to have the ability to interpret and right something so complex with complete accuracy.

They couldn’t. The Bible is full of parables and stories, in attempts to illustrate things. Since they didn’t have tape recorders, if you accept that they were witnesses, you are still left with years of time passing between the events that took place and the writings that eventually were conducted.

It’s not like they had laptops and printing presses at the time.

Even today, people are always looking for “the best” or “the right” way to do something. Of course there would be a documentation of “the way” to live. Many cultures have this… and as others have mentioned they are very similar across cultures. However, they all have their own book, prophet or whatnot.

I know you are very desparate in your need to hold onto some truth such as this, because without it you will be lost, as you obviously are not very able to think for yourself.

If you are granted comfort by your beliefs, that is fine. However, your beliefs are simply your beliefs. Trying to dress your beliefs up in fancy robes and ultimate importance is just aggrandizement, whether you realize it or not.

Several thousand years ago the Bible was a model of advanced thinking capable of moving the world forward. However, whenever a fanatical interpretation of the Bible is accepted you end up with the ability to support attrocities against other groups of people in the name of God.

Quite honestly, as you might expect from a relatively naive people, from several thousand years ago, on a planet that had much more open space available to everyone, the Bible (as do the other similar religious documents) starts to fall down under the realities on the planet today – at least if you grasp it fanatically and brandish it upon people who are not of similar belief.

God gave you a mind, I think it would be a mortal sin for you not to learn how to use it before you die… hurry up brother, your time is running out.[/quote]

Vroom,

I am going to make this very short and to the point.

That people do bad things (in the name of Jesus, Budda, Mohammed, etc) only goes to show that the Bible – THE WORD OF GOD is exactly correct when it calls every human being A SINNER!

Now, I know this will be hard to believe, but sinners sin! . That’s right, you heard it first here on this board. Sinful men (and women) commit sin – sometimes really bad sin.

I don’t know the spiritual condition of those who participated in witch buring, and I could go into the missapplicaion of O.T. Law meant for National Israel in a Theocracy, but I will spare you. Suffice it to say that people do bad things, precisely because we are all born sinners.

The fact that atrocities exist, show even more why WE ALL need Jesus!

[b] There are only two roads in life leading to eternity:

(1) The path of destruction leading to Hell.

(2) The path of faith leading to Heaven.

There are also only two choices for every person. To believe in Jesus or not. This decision – the most important you will ever make in your life – more important than who you marry, where you live, what car you drive, what you name your kids – will determine which eternal pathway you will end up on and therefore will determine your eternal destiny.

Don’t play around with God, Vroom by asking silly questions or trying to trip up believers. Stop playing games with God. I suspect your persistent posting on this thread, shows that you recognize that there is something really big missing in your life.

It’s Jesus Vroom!

Bow the knee sir, and come to Him today!

369

Jesus Vroom ?

You mean…?

WTF ?

I had no idea.

I guess when he was writing the beginners thread he threw his pearls before swine AND gave to dogs what is holy.

370

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:

Wow – I believe I am vindicated for my “England has lost its soul” comment from the other day!

Too bad, I actually want to be wrong.
[/quote]

Well Miniross is English, I’m Welsh, can’t speak for the English. Religion is pretty strong in Wales, its the Celtic heritage (Welsh and Irish are Celts) and that’s why there at least two pubs near each church.

371

[quote]hspder wrote:
JPBear wrote:
If we are nothing but random physical beings, which ended up here by accident, how can you claim that goodness and kindness towards others is better than self centered pursuits? Maybe you get more joy from having friends than you do from feeding the desires of your flesh, but not everyone does. If there is no external moral standard, then things wouldn’t be morally good or bad, they would just be different.

May I butt-in for a moment again?

(same disclaimer as before applies here: don’t take this as an insult to your intelligence ? it’s just that as a science professor I can’t help but blurt out science every chance I get)[/quote]

How many times and in how many ways do you need to get in that you feel smarter than us? We know you have a Ph.D. That is a GREAT accomplishment and you should be proud. But God is not a respecter of persons, so all of your learning is meaningless if you use it to spend an eternity in Hell.[quote]

There is plenty of scientific evidence to support the theory that moral standards are a product of Evolution. One of the most obvious pieces of evidence is that a lot of other animals – including all primates – have similar standards; in fact, Humans and other animals share a whole heritage of tendencies, including cooperation and repayment of favors (which drive goodness and kindness towards others, even if at a subconscious level).[/quote]

Well as a scientist, you should also ask yourself if there is another, more plausable explanation for this.

It would stand to reason that a common Creator instilled these things in His creation. Similarities in form and function only serve to show forth a common Creator.[quote]

Another piece of evidence is that moral standards are remarkably similar between different major faiths, including the ones that only had contact with each other in the past couple of centuries ? but differ on specific aspects that were “amazingly” convenient for the survival of the species in THAT specific environment.[/quote]

Please give specific examples to support this claim.[quote]

Behavioral economics (among other currents of thought) greatly support what lothario is claiming: that those moral standards are very much in self-interest, even if it’s long term. The physical response one has when doing a good deed (that lothario described) is also a product of Evolution and is greatly responsible for the success of all species that present similar characteristics. Some compare it to the pleasure that we experience during sex, i.e., it’s a mechanism to provide an incentive to a behavior that got “selected in” because it was necessary for the survival of the species – humans who experienced that pleasure were more likely to adopt the associated behavior, hence survive longer, be more successful and have more kids, propagating the gene that drives it.[/quote]

Again, commonalities in creation are explained better by a common Creator – rather than machinations of randomness.[quote]

Of course, as all innate behaviors, they are not universal to all members of a species; the fragility of DNA, and the susceptibility to conditioning create diversity of behaviors – but there is a fundamental, innate moral core in most advanced mammals, a group of which we are just one member among many. [/quote]

Yes, and God has placed it in us all![/quote]

To put it in just one sentence: yes, goodness and kindness towards others are in fact in our best self-interest, and are innate behaviors that we share with many other species and allowed our survival (i.e., without it, we would have fallen victim to extinction through natural selection).[/quote]

Then how come the world and mankind is so bad. How come, left to our own, we would kill each other, rob each other, etc. Why do we need a police force with weapons? Wake up! We are not innately good. We are innately BAD. The only goodness in us is what God has imparted. [quote]

Based on this, one can easily define as “morally good” what improves our quality of life / chances of survival and as “morally bad” what doesn’t – or, rather, what reduces our quality of life / chances of survival.

“Amazingly”, that definition has been shown to yield exactly the same results as the codes of morality defended in Holy Scriptures.

What does this all mean?[/quote]

It all means that you have fallen for a false religion based on randomness, devoid of the Divine. You have created a God (‘natural selection’) of your own (or Darwin’s) imagination and you press observable pheonomena into your false scheme. Now granted, the same can be said for those who believe as I do, the difference is I call it faith (yes, in God’s Word) but faith nonetheless. You claim, however, sceintific fact. That is just ludicrous.[quote]

The theory goes like this:

We basically are what we are (in spite of being a product of randomness) because we could not be any different or we wouldn’t exist by now.[/quote]

Weren’t you part of the gaggle that flamed believers because of “circular reasoning?” Well what’s up with this?[quote]

I think the reason people have such problems believing this is possible through randomness is that it is hard to grasp the numbers involved – it is hard to grasp how old the Universe is, and how many stars there are.[/quote]

The reason that people have a hard time believing this is that it didn’t happen that way![quote]

A well-known metaphor that helps understand how this can be possible is the monkey theorem:

A monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard will eventually type out the collected works of William Shakespeare.[/quote]

That is complete and utter frivolity. This could and would never ever happen! It is like saying I can blow my house up with TNT and get the Taj Mahal. Fantasy…[quote]

Of course, this is all theory and I can?t prove beyond any doubt that this wasn?t all the product of a Higher Power, but hey, you were the one who asked how can an alternative, atheist, explanation exist – it does, and it’s not rocket science…
[/quote]

This is the alternative explanation? Long long ago and far far away, it rained on the rocks and the rock slime seeped into the cespool of the oceans and out popped life?

Now who is telling the fariy tales?

Bow the knee to Jesus today! “Ye must be born again!”