Positive Failure on 30-10-30

Training HIT
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Not when you have to go against our biggest obstacle…age…once we reach our prime at 30 or 40 years of age,

==Scott==
I never felt like it was all down hill after 30 or 40. With the exception of my teens I had some of my best years of triathlons and muscle building in my mid to late 30s . I think when we get older other things tend to get in the way of building muscle and fitness. It’s to easy to get distracted from lifting the older you get as you find other things take precedence over big muscles so you don’t put the effort you used to into it. If I hadn’t had cancer in my 60s that threw everything out of wack I would have felt about as energized at 65 as 40. It’s amazing how one thing can cause the domino effect on your body.

83

I’d describe aging as a gradual erosion in physical capability. It starts out slowly and subtly at first, and then begins to accelerate as you get into your 50’s, 60’s, and beyond. And the decline is not uniform for all aspects of physical performance. If you continue to train, things like endurance and strength can hold up pretty well into your 50’s and beyond. But speed, quickness, and explosive strength decline more rapidly. You also start to lose resilience in joints and connective tissues such that you just can’t absorb as much impact and recover from it. Reflexes start to decay, vision gets worse.

For most competitive athletes, performance declines start to appear by the late 30’s or early 40’s. For non athletes, it may take longer for the declines to be noticeable, because you haven’t been pushing yourself for peak performance.

I had noticed some decline by age 40, but mostly in terms of how well I could absorb the pounding from something like downhill skiing. But by my early 60’s, I had enough dings, injuries, and decline in recovery ability to know that I was clearly on the down hill side of things.

84

This is what I learned for myself. I don’t not always train to failure. About 80% I do go to failure. If you have been doing HIT for a long time you do not have to always train to failure.

I will try to keep this on topic and what changes I have made and why.

With 30/10/30 if I cant get to the last negative I dont worry about it. I would just stay with that exercise until I could.

I may do whole workouts that I don’t go to failure. Or I might only go to failure on some exercises and failure to others in a given workout.

I was doing 30/10/30 for a while but I had to make some adjustments. I based it on my a few things I have learned about myself over the past 30 years.

Like I mentioned I don’t stress if I fail before I can get to the last negative. Just keep the weight the same till I can. So sometimes I went to failure and other times I did not.

But thats one reason I don’t use it all the time on every exercise.

I found I like 30/30/30 on some exercises. Something with a shorter range of motion two reps with 15/15/15. Or even a few reps at 10/10. Yes superslow.

As you can tell by my name I like dips. For a while I was doing one 45 second negative like Dr.Darden wrote about. 45 seconds works better that 60 seconds for me.

I now like one 15/15/15 rep on dips I can focus better. With added weight I found I use better form.

I train alone. There are a few exercises that I only do once in a while for a change. Leg curl,extension, and lateral raise.

If I want to use 30/30/30 or 30/10/30 on those and I can’t get the weight in position for the first negative one or two reps at 10/10 first does the trick.

Sometimes I like one 30 second negative a few reps at 10/10 to a 30 second negative.

Sounds complicated but it really is not for me. I plan my workouts. I might do the same routine for 3 cycles. Then change things up for a few cycles.

I have arthritis and a few other health issues. For me it’s about training for health and staying
in shape.

I don’t lift as heavy as I use too. I would rather not have the aches and pains that I get from real heavy weight and moving at about 2/2 0r 3/3. You get the idea

With what I do now I can still go fairly heavy and make exercise harder by slowing down. I never got anything form a static hold ect so it’s a waist of time for me.

I have found a few moves I like and can do well. I stick with those and work them hard. I could go on about which exercises I like and those I do not.

What works for me may not work for another I said enough already.

4 Likes
85

When I do the 30-10-30, I train twice a week(Wed and sat), I stick with same weight until I get 12 reps, when I add weight its either 5lbs or 2-1/2lbs…about every 6 weeks, I take a week or two off from training…and if I can’t add weight or reps for awhile, I don’t make it a big deal because I realize at 56 years old my recovery is slower and some days it just won’t happen

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86

Good stuff, dipsrule… Clearly wisdom born of experience.

I will say that I have not become a fan of these super slow (30 second) reps. Maybe I am just a motor moron, but I find that trying to move that slow is just very tedious and distracting. I almost always move more slowly on the eccentric than the concentric, but I don’t worry about hitting a particular cadence. I do concentrics with a deliberate, forceful push, and then ease the weight back down. I’ll tend to move faster for the early reps, when I am fresh, and then let fatigue slow down the movement for me later on.

87

I’m not precise. If I’m off a few seconds it’s not a big deal to me. The musician in me gives me a sense of good timing. I use on little timer called the gym boss. I set it to beep every 15 seconds.

That gives me a feel and I’m not counting every second. You can concentrate on the lifting better.

When I feel the intensity is too high I just go back to 10/10 for a while.

I train once or twice a week. Sometimes less.

With those high intensity techniques I use less exercises.Three big moves and something like shrugs,abs,and neck. I like abs first before anything if I even do them.

Other than that I will sometimes walk my dog a few times a week. He is a bloodhound/mastif mix.

He is about 100 pounds. Nose down and he dictates the pace.

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88

Yea getting old is definitely a pain, ha ha! The first thing I seemed to notice about getting old was that it was taking longer to recover. Some minor injuries seemed to take forever to recover from. I remember looking down at my hand and thinking my god, my skin is stated to get that old persons look! I guess I’m lucky in that I never skied , played football or other sports that could be destructive to joints although I used to run a lot until the cancer and I never had any issue with running. In all honesty the cancer episode in my life was no excuse to slow down. Once I was sort of over it, if that ever happens, I didn’t charge right back in to lifting full force. It was more of a mind thing. Oh the hell with this, I’m going to do something else. So much of what we do is controlled by our mind. If I really wanted to get back into lifting like I used to I could have done it but I just didn’t have the desire anymore. Now it’s sneaking back in there! At least for the moment.
Scott

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89

dips rule,

I think you know what you are doing. Your philosophy is sound.

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90

Scott,

I also like your attitude.

91

Thank you sir.

92

Just an update from my earlier posting about my current "negative emphasised " routine

I have just completed 3 cycles of both the A and B routine. My aim was to do 4 cycles and then make adjustments by changing the negative emphasised protocol on each, and maybe substituting one exercise on each.
I have decided that I will make those changes now after 3 cycles, rather than do another cycle (I’ll happily explain my reasons if anybody is interested).
So far I am happy with the progress that has been made. Weights have increased and my physique has shown improvements to my critical " 55 years old" eye.

If anyone is interested i will post up my new routine, which contains “individualised” versions of some Dr D’s negative protocols , alongside a couple of my own that I am going to try out.
I am also for the record posting up a photo taken last night.
20201030_203131|679x500

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Hi Mark, I’m interested. :smiley:

Looking good too

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94

Hi Mark,

Me interested too! You sure have got a well developed physique there! Good job!

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[quote=“markh501, post:92, topic:269603, full:true”]
I have decided that I will make those changes now after 3 cycles, rather than do another cycle (I’ll happily explain my reasons if anybody is interested).

If anyone is interested i will post up my new routine, which contains “individualised” versions of some Dr D’s negative protocols , alongside a couple of my own that I am going to try out.
I am also for the record posting up a photo taken last night.
20201030_203131|679x500
[/quote

Yes, very interested in both your rationale for changes and your new routine.

Perhaps create a new thread?

Thanks.

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96

Here is my next planned 3 week cycle (my original routines are posted earlier in the thread)

A
Barbell Squat (8-16-16-32-8-16)
Standing Calf Raise with belt (20S-6-20S-5 )
Decline Press (2-10 ×4)
T bar row (20-20-20)
Standing Overhead Press (4-8-8-16-4-8)
Pulldown (10s/20n/10s/20n)
Cable Ab Crunch(15-15-15+10-12)

Rest 4 days

B
Leg Curl (2-10 ×3)
Leg Extension (20s-10-20s-10)
Dumbell Squat (15-15-15 +10-12)
Dip (20-20-20)
Chin(20-20-20)
Tricep Pressdown (12-12-12 +6)
Seated Dumbell Curl (20s-6-20s-5)

Rest 4 days and repeat A

As you can see I have swapped a couple of exercises, and changed the order at the end of the B workout.
I will if necessary reduce the number of exercises to 6 each workout , by alternating the calf raise and Ab Crunch in Workout A , and the Leg Extension and Leg Curl in Workout B.

The numbers next to the exercises refer to the (mainly negative emphasised) exercise protocols.
I will explain what each means, but it is important to note that unless someone is advanced and loves variety in their routine, then not only is it unnecessary to have so many differing protocols (although most are basically variants of the same theme), but it could be both confusing and counterproductive.
But here goes anyway.

2-10 is 2 up/10 down

8-16-16-32-8-16 is 8 up/16 down/16 up/32 down/8 up/ 16 down

20S-6-20S-5 is a 20 second static (mid range)/ 6 reps/a 20 second static (mid range)/5 reps

20-20-20 is a lower TUL version of 30-30-30

4-8-8-16-4-8 is a variation of 8-16-16-32-8-16

10s/20n/10s/20n is ONE negative rep , consisting of a 10 second static in the top position, followed by a 20 second lowering to halfway, followed a 10 second static, then a 20 second negative in the bottom part of the movement

15-15-15 +10-12 is 15 down. 15 up, 15 down , then 10-12 regular reps

12-12-12 +6 is a variation of 15-15-15 +10-12

Mark

97

Seems we’re thinking along the same lines. If I intend to complete (e.g.) a 20-20-20 cycle but end up picking a weight that is too light I simply add some reps to failure at the end. If I pick a weight that is too heavy I may just complete (e.g.) 20-17-15.

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98

Yes I agree.
30-10-30 and 30-30-30 are to me starting points for us as trainees to learn first and then later explore and individualise.

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Hi Tokon,
I will begin a new thread entitled "Adapting the 30-10-30 protocol "
In it I will explain my reasons for the changes in my programme for each exercise, plus what I have planned after that.
Comments, thoughts and other trainees experiences in adapting the protocol will be welcome, along with their reasons for doing so.
For me 30-10-30 and 30-30-30 represent the breakthrough in practical and productive negative emphasised training , and certainly not the final word.
So I am sure that Dr Darden will be interested in reading about people’s experiences with it and how and why they have adapted it.

Mark

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100

Great Points, especially about practice and ‘knowing’ when to change over.
One More Point: It doesn’t matter if someone starta too light, you WILL come to hit Failure on either the ‘10 reps’ and/or the last 30 sec eventually!
Scott

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