Popping the Question- Am I Crazy?

Off Topic
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[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
I’m planning on putting it under his name so it wouldn’t affect my aid. Also, if either of us ever needed to, there’d be someone to park a shit ton of cash with that a person looking at our bank account wouldn’t be able to see.

[/quote]

You do realize that if you put it under his name and you break up…he now owns it, right?

If his name is on the ownership documents, he owns it. Just sayin. I know, maybe I’m being a cynic and you’ll be together for life. But I’d rather pay more now or have a delayed startup than work for 4 years building a business then lose all rights to it.[/quote]

We’ve already split up and thus know how the other person acts. We took care of each other even when we didn’t think we’d ever see the other person again. I gave him every cent that was rightfully his and vice-versa. I even referred him to several business contacts and took care of some of his stuff. He did the equivalent for me. Hence, I trust him more than anyone else I know.

Also, if a second house was bought under my name, he’d probably be the one doing the financing and that’d even out the whole business thing.

Honestly, if you don’t trust a person enough to be their business partner, why would you EVER consider staying with them for life?[/quote]

Mixing business with pleasure is a VERY slippery slope… I’d advise against it. Seriously. An operating agreement will only go so far to protect you if you’ve co-mingled finances, etc… better to keep her in the kitchen. ;P[/quote]

I know you’re speaking from experience on that one. I’ll also mention that it doesn’t sound like the person you had the experience with was very altruistic natured or fair.

Honestly, I’m not very worried about finances. Why? I spent my last two years of high school homeless, have been working since I was 14 to support various members of my family, and know what rock bottom looks like (top ramen FTW). There are worst things that can happen than being homeless and the possibility of loosing all my money doesn’t scare me the way it does most.

On the other hand, I’ve learned a TON about who’s worth trusting.

Sometimes things do work out.

[/quote]

Don’t say I didn’t warn you, sweetie. And believe me when I tell you that rock bottom is whole hell of a lot lower than being homeless and eating top ramen.

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You’re right, but most people assume that’s the lowest you can go and live in fear of loosing financially. Honestly, with what’s going on, homelessness+debt is the very worst that could happen.

What would you say is the lowest? For me, it was probably being deeply depressed, working 3 jobs at once with no family in sight while living in a crack house where a friend was nearly killed. But even then, I could walk away, had no addictions, and the law on my side, so I’d chalk that up to a rough patch rather than the worst that could happen.

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[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]fraggle wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
You’d think this is cheating[/quote]

Actually, I think most of that would be fraud. Whether you get prosecuted or not I’m not sure.[/quote]

Fraud is breaking a law, which we aren’t doing. Giving your money to someone doesn’t break laws, running a business under someone else’s name isn’t breaking a law unless we fail to pay taxes, and the buying two houses with two discounts is just the way the system works. Don’t hate the player :P[/quote]

Fraud is misrepresenting yourself for financial gain.

Though I wasn’t completely accurate there. I should have said, part of that could be fraud, specifically the part about financial aid. Most programs I’ve seen have fine print at the bottom that will generalize about how you declare such and such information to be true, and failure to inform them of any changes in your situation, yadda yadda yadda. Some forms specifically say it’s fraud and threaten prosecution, some don’t.

Not hating, just saying.

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[quote]Oleena wrote:
You’re right, but most people assume that’s the lowest you can go and live in fear of loosing financially. Honestly, with what’s going on, homelessness+debt is the very worst that could happen.

What would you say is the lowest? For me, it was probably being deeply depressed, working 3 jobs at once with no family in sight while living in a crack house where a friend was nearly killed. But even then, I could walk away, had no addictions, and the law on my side, so I’d chalk that up to a rough patch rather than the worst that could happen.
[/quote]

I would say that it’s a relative scale depending on the individual. I’m not trying to get into a dick measuring contest about who’s had a tougher life. Everything is relative. Having said that, building a successful business is difficult enough without adding layers of complexity to it. The whole putting it in someone else’s name, or trying to “get over” on the government to save or make a few dollars is really small thinking. You’ll rarely be successful with a paradigm like that. But I would encourage you to make all the mistakes you can in business EARLY, when the learning curve is the steepest.

You can trust people all you want in the beginning. You can sit around and create a bunch of spreadsheets predicting your profits and other “masturbatory behavior”. No harm in that. But what happens if the business actually becomes successful? What happens then? Have you planned on how you will sell the business and how the profits are divided? Is it in your operating agreement? With out an “official” stake in the business, shit can change REAL quick. Trust me. The road to hell was paved with good intentions, protect yourself and your interests - not because things could go wrong, but because things could go RIGHT.

But you know better than me - you’re 25 or so and have the world by the balls, carry on.

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[quote]angry chicken wrote:

I’m not trying to get into a dick measuring contest about who’s had a tougher life.
[/quote]

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You talk like this stuff wasn’t covered in basic accounting courses.

FWIW, all of my ideas regarding business have come from those much older than myself who’ve been successful at it. One owns two corporations and a nonprofit (and you see him on TV every now and then. He’s a little more trim now, thanks to me). The other has been working in real estate for 20 years. Also, basic college accounting courses don’t hurt, and cover all of what you mentioned within the first 6 months (honestly, those and economics were the most useful courses I’ve taken).

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say having mentors and an intimate relationship with tax laws in addition to basic knowledge of how it all works is probably the best I can do for myself at this point. As I’ve said numerous time, if I fail I fail. Oh well. Worst things can happen (like children and money-vampire mothers).

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[quote]fraggle wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]fraggle wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
You’d think this is cheating[/quote]

Actually, I think most of that would be fraud. Whether you get prosecuted or not I’m not sure.[/quote]

Fraud is breaking a law, which we aren’t doing. Giving your money to someone doesn’t break laws, running a business under someone else’s name isn’t breaking a law unless we fail to pay taxes, and the buying two houses with two discounts is just the way the system works. Don’t hate the player :P[/quote]

Fraud is misrepresenting yourself for financial gain.

Though I wasn’t completely accurate there. I should have said, part of that could be fraud, specifically the part about financial aid. Most programs I’ve seen have fine print at the bottom that will generalize about how you declare such and such information to be true, and failure to inform them of any changes in your situation, yadda yadda yadda. Some forms specifically say it’s fraud and threaten prosecution, some don’t.

Not hating, just saying.
[/quote]

That makes sense. I bet they’ve become more specific with those laws over time, as apparently the entire Harvard MBA program was taking advantage of them for a while.

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[quote]Yo Momma wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

I’m not trying to get into a dick measuring contest about who’s had a tougher life.
[/quote]

[/quote]

lol. That’s hilarious “We used to live in a rolled-up, wet newspaper.”

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[quote]Oleena wrote:
You talk like this stuff wasn’t covered in basic accounting courses.
[/quote]
I wouldn’t know - I’ve never taken a basic accounting course. Most of my business knowledge comes from my experience of starting, growing and selling over 30 small businesses and/or expert opinion of people who I’ve worked with/hired [quote]

FWIW, all of my ideas regarding business have come from those much older than myself who’ve been successful at it. One owns two corporations and a nonprofit (and you see him on TV every now and then. He’s a little more trim now, thanks to me). The other has been working in real estate for 20 years. Also, basic college accounting courses don’t hurt, and cover all of what you mentioned within the first 6 months (honestly, those and economics were the most useful courses I’ve taken).

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say having mentors and an intimate relationship with tax laws in addition to basic knowledge of how it all works is probably the best I can do for myself at this point. As I’ve said numerous time, if I fail I fail. Oh well. Worst things can happen (like children and money-vampire mothers).[/quote]

If your mentors told you it was a good idea to “own” (contribute capital, receive a share when said business is sold, etc…) a business without legally owning it then you need to get different mentors. It’s a very irresponsible idea and the way you are flaunting it like it’s perfectly fine sounds like amateur hour at the Apollo. As for an “intimate relationship with tax law”, you are FAR better served putting a good CPA on retainer and getting professional advice (you will never have a more “intimate” a relationship with tax law than a CPA).

What is your reasoning for not owning? You don’t need to have good credit to own a small business - ANYONE can do it if you are over 18… If you lack good credit, just have a partner with good credit and make that their capital contribution… If you’re worried about liability, that’s the POINT of a corporation or LLC - it limits the liability… If you are worried about declaring income, there are a MILLION ways around it that have nothing to do with ownership - you can declare losses for YEARS without raising any flags…

I am simply at a loss as to why you would “own” a company without protecting yourself. Believe it or not, I don’t want you to fail. The purpose of me writing this is so that, in the event that you succeed, you are protected. I think it is a big mistake to run business on a handshake in this day and age.

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If your both not jacked up about getting married, probably shouldn’t.

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Using logic on someone that is certifiably bat shit crazy? Good luck with that.

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[quote]angry chicken wrote:
If you lack good credit, just have a partner with good credit and make that their capital contribution… [/quote]

Okay, so if I happen to make a profit and want none of it to appear under my name but also don’t want to deal with a corporation because at the level I’m entering with it wouldn’t make sense?

I understand that it’s risky, but all in all I’d say my business dealings with this guy have always been more risky for him than for me. He just happens to have a very altruistic nature, and I’m an extremely fair person with a hardcore conscience, so it works out. I’m actually happy he’s with me because the last one he had walked out owing him 5grand (he was 21) and he’s be easy for someone to take advantage of. He wants to take care of someone even if they aren’t with him and I CANNOT take advantage of people’s kindness. I insist on paying my share and never take anything from him even though he’s offered multiple times.

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[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
If you lack good credit, just have a partner with good credit and make that their capital contribution… [/quote]

Okay, so if I happen to make a profit and want none of it to appear under my name but also don’t want to deal with a corporation because at the level I’m entering with it wouldn’t make sense?
[/quote]

Just because the CORPORATION makes a profit does NOT mean you have to realize said profit as INCOME. There are like a million ways around that (most of them legal). One of my associates is a commercial Realtor and rehabs buildings in DC into condos and last year he “officially” earned $3,000. (I know this because he tried to get a loan through me which I had to deny!) Now I’m not saying you should go THAT extreme, but talk to a CPA - there’s plenty of ways to skin a cat.

[quote]
I understand that it’s risky, but all in all I’d say my business dealings with this guy have always been more risky for him than for me. He just happens to have a very altruistic nature, and I’m an extremely fair person with a hardcore conscience, so it works out. I’m actually happy he’s with me because the last one he had walked out owing him 5grand (he was 21) and he’s be easy for someone to take advantage of. He wants to take care of someone even if they aren’t with him and I CANNOT take advantage of people’s kindness. I insist on paying my share and never take anything from him even though he’s offered multiple times. [/quote]

The way I see this (from what you describe here) is that he shows poor judgment. Money makes people do stupid shit… (you can say I know this from personal experience too!) I don’t know what your venture is (and in principle it doesn’t matter for this example) but what if the company made 200K next month? And you had NO legal recourse to claim even a penny of that… Doesn’t that make you the SLIGHTEST bit nervous?

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Honestly, no.

As I said, a corportation doesn’t make sense for what I’m doing (I thought of that).

He does show poor judgement at times in that he prefers to assume people are good, but I’ve never heard/seen of one example of him putting anyone else at a disadvantage even once in his life (he’s been to war, his guys worship his, his ex’s best girlfriend loves him, and he is pretty much the one his family goes to). I’m about the very least trusting person you’ll ever meet and I trust him 100% when it comes to my well-being. I have a lot to learn from him as well.

On the other hand, I’m the opposite, so it’s a good compliment :slight_smile:

(okay at this point I’m just bragging. I’ll stop now)

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[quote]Oleena wrote:
We’ve already split up and thus know how the other person acts. We took care of each other even when we didn’t think we’d ever see the other person again. I gave him every cent that was rightfully his and vice-versa. I even referred him to several business contacts and took care of some of his stuff. He did the equivalent for me. Hence, I trust him more than anyone else I know.

Also, if a second house was bought under my name, he’d probably be the one doing the financing and that’d even out the whole business thing.

Honestly, if you don’t trust a person enough to be their business partner, why would you EVER consider staying with them for life?[/quote]

I just wouldn’t mix business with pleasure. My mom remarried, stayed with the guy for 10 years, then for a variety of reasons they had to split. She had worked on her landlording business throughout the marriage, and because she put his name on the housing purchase contracts along with her own, when they split he ended up getting over 200k of real estate that he didn’t ever work for, along with the future income that property entails.

I trust my current gf enough that I’m not scared at the thought of starting a business with her, but practicality says that I shouldn’t.

It’s just like a prenuptial agreement. Getting one doesn’t mean that you don’t love your parter, just that you’re practical and covering your bases.

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depends on how much she can squat

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OP, here’s my opinion as an old, but exceptionally immature guy, who just got married this past September.

You sound like a pretty mature and level-headed 23 year old guy, that seems to know what he wants…which is a good thing. It also seems like your GF is a good match for you and she’s your best friend… another good and an EXTREMELY important facet of every relationship. Otherwise, she’s just a convienient fuck-buddy, without any of the benefits, but with all of the drawbacks and chances are it won’t last very long.

Anyway… You have the very BASICS of a healthy relationship so far… But, that’s it. Neither of you have been on your own or have any real income right now. You don’t even have a ring.

Right now, the only thing you have to offer her, is (possibly) POTENTIAL. The two of you might have everything fall into place, without much stress and it works out just the way the two of you planned. Maybe you’ll get your dream job, buy her the ring she deserves and her father pays for the dream wedding; Chances are that it won’t, though.

Listen, talking about getting married and the future IS very intoxicating, like (BG?) it was said, and there’s nothing wrong with it… But, right now, I think you’d be half-assing it and possibly setting yourself up for disappointment.

By waiting as long as possible, exponentially increases the odds in your favor. It can’t hurt to wait.

Even if everything works out for the two of you, no matter what you decide, keep in mind that NOTHING is guaranteed in life. Although, life IS about taking CHANCES and you probably have as much of a chance as anybody else, doing things your way… So, GOOD LUCK!

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[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
We’ve already split up and thus know how the other person acts. We took care of each other even when we didn’t think we’d ever see the other person again. I gave him every cent that was rightfully his and vice-versa. I even referred him to several business contacts and took care of some of his stuff. He did the equivalent for me. Hence, I trust him more than anyone else I know.

Also, if a second house was bought under my name, he’d probably be the one doing the financing and that’d even out the whole business thing.

Honestly, if you don’t trust a person enough to be their business partner, why would you EVER consider staying with them for life?[/quote]

I just wouldn’t mix business with pleasure. My mom remarried, stayed with the guy for 10 years, then for a variety of reasons they had to split. She had worked on her landlording business throughout the marriage, and because she put his name on the housing purchase contracts along with her own, when they split he ended up getting over 200k of real estate that he didn’t ever work for, along with the future income that property entails.

I trust my current gf enough that I’m not scared at the thought of starting a business with her, but practicality says that I shouldn’t.

It’s just like a prenuptial agreement. Getting one doesn’t mean that you don’t love your parter, just that you’re practical and covering your bases.[/quote]

Did your mom have an collateral? Meaning, did your Dad have anything of significant worth under her name? That’s always a problem. I’m not willing to take risks with someone who isn’t taking major risks with me. The prisoner’s dilemna works better when the other person has an equal amount to loose :wink:

Two more things 1. If I wasn’t in school and I had the time to make a particularly successful business, I’d put it under my name. 2. If I made so much he ran off with it, I’d be relieved he wasn’t overseas getting shot at. If that happened, I’d still count it as a success. You can always make more money.

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But my original point for the OP stands- there are monetary advantages to not being married.