[quote]orion wrote:
Anyway, I do not get why it bothers you if anyone criticizes this part of Americas past.
[/quote]
No, Orion, you just don’t understand. As a European, there is no way you could ever understand the overwhelming love an American has for his country, and the absolute intolerance he has for any criticism of it, minor or great. It would be akin to someone insulting Jesus in front of a true Christian.
[quote]knutes101 wrote:
Lixy,
Your excellent work with Wikipedia has made me shut my mouth about women in Power in the Islamic World. I need to google each of these ladies to get a better idea how they faired with a western lady… [/quote]
The list I put up was of women who came to prominent positions of power from 700 to 1200. And I don’t see what you mean when you say “Wikipedia”. Is there a “Women in Power in the Islamic World” category that I missed. If so, I’ll go bash my head against the wall. It took me like an hour to scrape all those names.
Anyway, since I stopped at the year 1200, I’ll let you imagine how much more has happened in the following 8 centuries. I’m quite familiar with them as the leader of the opposition in my country is a very pious woman. And her party is easily describable as an Islamist party.
Sure.
It is not my aim to slander Christians or their system of beliefs. I went to a Catholic school up until the age of 14 and I hold a deep respect for the Church. I met plenty of delightful Christians over there and got introduced to Christian Unitarianism over there.
So, please, don’t make me slam Orthodox rituals that I may view as sexist as it saddens me to do so. The Quran expressly urges Muslims to only argue Christian “bi’llati hiya ahssan” (a superlative way that means “in the nicest possible way”). I might have gotten carried away when some people challenged the idea that the celibacy thing is not under the discretion of the Pope and is therefore some carved in stone, irreversible ecclesial law. I mean, doesn’t anyone research a religion before adopting it?
Thanks. Looking forward to learning from your perspective.
[quote]lixy wrote:
kroby wrote:
lixy wrote:
True. But I don’t support Iran in the way that you’re trying to portray it. I support Iran’s sovereignty over its own land, the right of its inhabitants to be ruled by people who weren’t put in power as pawns of some imperial power, their right to not be bombed or invaded in blatant aggression, and finally their right to civil nuclear energy.
Their “right” to civil nuclear energy? Explain.
Their right to develop nuclear energy for civil purposes.
There’s nothing more to explain.[/quote]
Explain what a “right” is.
More to the point, what does Iran have to do with this thread?
Edit** CrewPierce started th Iran thing.
[quote]lixy wrote:
And I don’t see what you mean when you say “Wikipedia”. Is there a “Women in Power in the Islamic World” category that I missed. If so, I’ll go bash my head against the wall.[/quote]
Start bashing.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
orion wrote:
Anyway, I do not get why it bothers you if anyone criticizes this part of Americas past.
No, Orion, you just don’t understand. As a European, there is no way you could ever understand the overwhelming love an American has for his country, and the absolute intolerance he has for any criticism of it, minor or great. It would be akin to someone insulting Jesus in front of a true Christian.[/quote]
I think I do understand.
Next time someone mentions the Holocaust might have been a bad idea I kick him in the nuts.
Why not just lament injustice period, I dunno, it was only what 80 years ago in New York 8 year olds were working in factories till their fingers wore off, and most if not all of them were white.
Retarded shit like this makes me feel ashamed to be catholic.
Jean Paul never would have said this stupid shit.
[quote]Guerrero wrote:
Jean Paul never would have said this stupid shit.
[/quote]
Sartre?
[quote]Guerrero wrote:
t was only what 80 years ago in New York 8 year olds were working in factories till their fingers wore off, and most if not all of them were white.
[/quote]
70 years ago. The FSLA was enacted in 1938.
I’m still confused by the reaction of some to what he said. This wasn’t “God Damn America,” after all. He was rather positive if anything, while still acknowledging wrongs we’ve corrected.
Fuck you Benidict, we’re working on it.
It’s all right. We all know who he really is.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
orion wrote:
Anyway, I do not get why it bothers you if anyone criticizes this part of Americas past.
No, Orion, you just don’t understand. As a European, there is no way you could ever understand the overwhelming love an American has for his country, and the absolute intolerance he has for any criticism of it, minor or great. It would be akin to someone insulting Jesus in front of a true Christian.[/quote]
Wow, I missed that post.
I love America. Hm. I guess I do. As for criticism of it, well, I enjoy criticizing policies and other stuff I have no control over.
It’s easy to insult and pick on the Past. It cannot defend itself. It’s also cowardly. America has come a long way in atoning for it’s past. For some charlatan to come along and attempt to throw shame and guilt at a nation while simultaneously having worse skeletons in his institutions closet… it’s unconscionable.
Those that thrive on guilt ate it up. “Bad America and your past. You should be ashamed and are rightfully chastised.” Excuse me, but I was not a party to this past. Why should I feel shame or guilt?
Bullshit is bullshit, and Herr Ratzinger is full of it.
[quote]kroby wrote:
Bullshit is bullshit, and Herr Ratzinger is full of it.[/quote]
What bullshit was he full of? Did he lie? Did he paint an overwhelmingly negative picture of this country? Or, as I actually heard him do, did he describe a positive and hopeful country? While, acknowledging that we’re still human, and have had to face our own trials and tribulations in this country? This brief mention of our sad past, that we ourselves moved away from, negated every compliment, prayer, and the hopeful message he carried here to the youth? Wow.
Since the context of his remarks seems to have been absolutely ignored. And, his speech inexplicably turned into a “God Damn America” type of thing, I figured I’d post some of the context.
Pope Benedict XVI praised America as a land of opportunity and hope Thursday as he celebrated the first public Mass of his U.S. pilgrimage, but he lamented that the country’s promise fell short for American Indians and blacks.
Hope for the future, he said, “is very much a part of the American character.”
“Americans have always been a people of hope,” he said during his homily. “Your ancestors came to this country with the experience of finding new freedom and opportunity.”
Some other remarks while he was here.
“The time has come for me to bid farewell to your country. These days that I have spent in the United States have been blessed with many memorable experiences of American hospitality, and I wish to express my deep appreciation to all of you for your kind welcome.”
“With these words, I take my leave, I ask you to remember me in your prayers, while I assure you of my love and friendship in the Lord. God bless America!” [Note that he says “God bless America.” And not, well, “God Damn America.”]
And, of course, his prayer at Ground Zero.
O God of love, compassion, and healing,
look on us, people of many different faiths and traditions,
who gather today at this site,
the scene of incredible violence and pain.
We ask you in your goodness
to give eternal light and peace
to all who died here –
the heroic first-responders:
our fire fighters, police officers,
emergency service workers, and Port Authority personnel,
along with all the innocent men and women
who were victims of this tragedy
simply because their work or service
brought them here on September 11, 2001.
We ask you, in your compassion
to bring healing to those
who, because of their presence here that day,
suffer from injuries and illness.
Heal, too, the pain of still-grieving families
and all who lost loved ones in this tragedy.
Give them strength to continue their lives with courage and hope.
We are mindful as well
of those who suffered death, injury, and loss
on the same day at the Pentagon and in Shanksville, Pennsylvania.
Our hearts are one with theirs
as our prayer embraces their pain and suffering.
God of peace, bring your peace to our violent world:
peace in the hearts of all men and women
and peace among the nations of the earth.
Turn to your way of love
those whose hearts and minds
are consumed with hatred.
God of understanding,
overwhelmed by the magnitude of this tragedy,
we seek your light and guidance
as we confront such terrible events.
Grant that those whose lives were spared
may live so that the lives lost here
may not have been lost in vain.
Comfort and console us,
strengthen us in hope,
and give us the wisdom and courage
to work tirelessly for a world
where true peace and love reign
among nations and in the hearts of all.
Candy coating bile is a good thing?
[quote]kroby wrote:
Candy coating bile is a good thing?[/quote]
You’ve failed to point out the “bile.”
Edit: See, I would think “bile” would amount to something like calling upon Catholics to slay unbelievers living in America. Apparently, it means one must praise the US without an acknowledgment that things haven’t always been perfect, even for us. In short, you have to kiss ass and look ignorant of US history.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
kroby wrote:
Bullshit is bullshit, and Herr Ratzinger is full of it.
What bullshit was he full of? [/quote]
kroby wrote:
It’s easy to insult and pick on the Past. It cannot defend itself. It’s also cowardly. America has come a long way in atoning for it’s past. For some charlatan to come along and attempt to throw shame and guilt at a nation while simultaneously having worse skeletons in his institutions closet… it’s unconscionable.
That bullshit.
So, when someone speaks with contempt towards you, you think “oh, that wasn’t nice, but I’ll let it slide 'cause he lavished me with praise” ?!?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
kroby wrote:
Candy coating bile is a good thing?
You’ve failed to point out the “bile.”[/quote]
I have to agree with you,Sloth.
All I have seen and read about the Pope’s visit has pointed to him having a deep admiration and appreciation for the U.S. and its peoples.
He appears to have a very big soft spot for you guys.
I’m really not seeing anything negative or destructive in what he has said in regards to the US.
Acknowledging previous problems (that have been and continue to be adressed) in order that we are mindful of their causes and do not forget what has come before,can hardly be considered spewing bile.
I as a parent do that with my child ,as my parents did with me.