what is fairer than two parties mutually agreeing on an exchange?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]soccerplayer wrote:
I would rather be in the bottom 20% of earners in the US right now than in the top 20% 300 years ago.
Technological advancement allows for a better life across the board (there is a trickle down effect). Free trade allows for the fastest technological advancement. Therefore, free trade is the best way for improving everybody’s life.[/quote]
We agree about 300 nyears ago:) I would think it would be easier today to be in the bottom %10 now than the top %1 300 years ago.
We do how ever disagree on free trade. I am for fair trade , IMO free trade is some mythical Beast that no one has ever captured. Fair trade IMO is the best we can hope for[/quote]
LOL at using the word fair to denote complete control by one group of people who run things according to their own personal sense of fairness even if that means forcing people to do things against their will.[/quote]
you are correct , it is asserting a little more control to Maximize your gain in the deal . It is something everybody does. I think the word forcing is way to strong. The word is fair.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]666Rich wrote:
+1, thats why China will not devalue their currency. They have us by the balls. Plus, its rather hypocritical to ask them to do so when we have the Fed printing billions of dollars. I wouldnt believe any “get tough on China” rhetoric from anyone.[/quote]
I disagree, we have them by the balls…
If we just decided we’re not paying back shit and they can kiss our asses if they do not like it then China’s economy is done and so is China.
If you borrow $100 dollars from the bank, the bank owns you. If you borrow $100,000,000,000,000 from the bank, you own the bank.[/quote]
Hardly, they would need around 3 years to refit their factories to produce for the domestic demand and if their regime survives this they are golden.
They could also stop trying to keep their currency artificially low which would be a benefit and their main competitor would crumble.
They do not need you, you need them, plus, if you devalue your currency anyway, they could decide to crash your currency for you, when it is most convenient for them.
[/quote]
3 years? They’d starve in the mean time. And why would they need to refit any thing? You take a couple trillion out of their economy and they are done.
Hell, you take a couple trillion out of are economy and we’d barely survive it.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]soccerplayer wrote:
I would rather be in the bottom 20% of earners in the US right now than in the top 20% 300 years ago.
Technological advancement allows for a better life across the board (there is a trickle down effect). Free trade allows for the fastest technological advancement. Therefore, free trade is the best way for improving everybody’s life.[/quote]
We agree about 300 nyears ago:) I would think it would be easier today to be in the bottom %10 now than the top %1 300 years ago.
We do how ever disagree on free trade. I am for fair trade , IMO free trade is some mythical Beast that no one has ever captured. Fair trade IMO is the best we can hope for[/quote]
LOL at using the word fair to denote complete control by one group of people who run things according to their own personal sense of fairness even if that means forcing people to do things against their will.[/quote]
you are correct , it is asserting a little more control to Maximize your gain in the deal . It is something everybody does. I think the word forcing is way to strong. The word is fair.[/quote]
Force is to strong a word to mean making someone do something they don’t want to under threat of violence and imprisonment?
[quote]soccerplayer wrote:
what is fairer than two parties mutually agreeing on an exchange?[/quote]
That is fair, but is it fair if one of them is manipulating the currency to benefit , them selves. If in fact the Chinese do , I agree with Trump we should tarrif their goods to the point that they are trading with America on a fair bases
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]soccerplayer wrote:
I would rather be in the bottom 20% of earners in the US right now than in the top 20% 300 years ago.
Technological advancement allows for a better life across the board (there is a trickle down effect). Free trade allows for the fastest technological advancement. Therefore, free trade is the best way for improving everybody’s life.[/quote]
We agree about 300 nyears ago:) I would think it would be easier today to be in the bottom %10 now than the top %1 300 years ago.
We do how ever disagree on free trade. I am for fair trade , IMO free trade is some mythical Beast that no one has ever captured. Fair trade IMO is the best we can hope for[/quote]
LOL at using the word fair to denote complete control by one group of people who run things according to their own personal sense of fairness even if that means forcing people to do things against their will.[/quote]
you are correct , it is asserting a little more control to Maximize your gain in the deal . It is something everybody does. I think the word forcing is way to strong. The word is fair.[/quote]
Force is to strong a word to mean making someone do something they don’t want to under threat of violence and imprisonment?[/quote]
I would never condone that type of trade.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]666Rich wrote:
+1, thats why China will not devalue their currency. They have us by the balls. Plus, its rather hypocritical to ask them to do so when we have the Fed printing billions of dollars. I wouldnt believe any “get tough on China” rhetoric from anyone.[/quote]
I disagree, we have them by the balls…
If we just decided we’re not paying back shit and they can kiss our asses if they do not like it then China’s economy is done and so is China.
If you borrow $100 dollars from the bank, the bank owns you. If you borrow $100,000,000,000,000 from the bank, you own the bank.[/quote]
Hardly, they would need around 3 years to refit their factories to produce for the domestic demand and if their regime survives this they are golden.
They could also stop trying to keep their currency artificially low which would be a benefit and their main competitor would crumble.
They do not need you, you need them, plus, if you devalue your currency anyway, they could decide to crash your currency for you, when it is most convenient for them.
[/quote]
3 years? They’d starve in the mean time. And why would they need to refit any thing? You take a couple trillion out of their economy and they are done.
Hell, you take a couple trillion out of are economy and we’d barely survive it.[/quote]
Somehow you are under the illusion that they get that much out of it.
They send you goods, you send them money that is bound to devalue massively.
That is not a good bargain for them.
If they take that hit they are no worse off than 5 years ago and not even that is certain because if they let their currency rise to where it should be they can buy things for cheap from the countries surrounding them.
They run a political risk because the 300 million or so of vagrant workers might rebel if they suddenly had to return to their rice paddies temporarily, but they will have to face that anyway if the US continues they way it does.
In the end supply and demand are two sides of the same coin, you can only consume corresponding to what you produce and they produce like mad. The US does not, at least nothing that can be exported to offset the imports.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]666Rich wrote:
+1, thats why China will not devalue their currency. They have us by the balls. Plus, its rather hypocritical to ask them to do so when we have the Fed printing billions of dollars. I wouldnt believe any “get tough on China” rhetoric from anyone.[/quote]
I disagree, we have them by the balls…
If we just decided we’re not paying back shit and they can kiss our asses if they do not like it then China’s economy is done and so is China.
If you borrow $100 dollars from the bank, the bank owns you. If you borrow $100,000,000,000,000 from the bank, you own the bank.[/quote]
Hardly, they would need around 3 years to refit their factories to produce for the domestic demand and if their regime survives this they are golden.
They could also stop trying to keep their currency artificially low which would be a benefit and their main competitor would crumble.
They do not need you, you need them, plus, if you devalue your currency anyway, they could decide to crash your currency for you, when it is most convenient for them.
[/quote]
3 years? They’d starve in the mean time. And why would they need to refit any thing? You take a couple trillion out of their economy and they are done.
Hell, you take a couple trillion out of are economy and we’d barely survive it.[/quote]
Somehow you are under the illusion that they get that much out of it.
They send you goods, you send them money that is bound to devalue massively.
That is not a good bargain for them.
If they take that hit they are no worse off than 5 years ago and not even that is certain because if they let their currency rise to where it should be they can buy things for cheap from the countries surrounding them.
They run a political risk because the 300 million or so of vagrant workers might rebel if they suddenly had to return to their rice paddies temporarily, but they will have to face that anyway if the US continues they way it does.
In the end supply and demand are two sides of the same coin, you can only consume corresponding to what you produce and they produce like mad. The US does not, at least nothing that can be exported to offset the imports.
[/quote]
Why would they need to convert American Dollars , they could use our money to buy from other countries and use their money domestically to keep down their people
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]666Rich wrote:
+1, thats why China will not devalue their currency. They have us by the balls. Plus, its rather hypocritical to ask them to do so when we have the Fed printing billions of dollars. I wouldnt believe any “get tough on China” rhetoric from anyone.[/quote]
I disagree, we have them by the balls…
If we just decided we’re not paying back shit and they can kiss our asses if they do not like it then China’s economy is done and so is China.
If you borrow $100 dollars from the bank, the bank owns you. If you borrow $100,000,000,000,000 from the bank, you own the bank.[/quote]
Hardly, they would need around 3 years to refit their factories to produce for the domestic demand and if their regime survives this they are golden.
They could also stop trying to keep their currency artificially low which would be a benefit and their main competitor would crumble.
They do not need you, you need them, plus, if you devalue your currency anyway, they could decide to crash your currency for you, when it is most convenient for them.
[/quote]
3 years? They’d starve in the mean time. And why would they need to refit any thing? You take a couple trillion out of their economy and they are done.
Hell, you take a couple trillion out of are economy and we’d barely survive it.[/quote]
Somehow you are under the illusion that they get that much out of it.
They send you goods, you send them money that is bound to devalue massively.
That is not a good bargain for them.
If they take that hit they are no worse off than 5 years ago and not even that is certain because if they let their currency rise to where it should be they can buy things for cheap from the countries surrounding them.
They run a political risk because the 300 million or so of vagrant workers might rebel if they suddenly had to return to their rice paddies temporarily, but they will have to face that anyway if the US continues they way it does.
In the end supply and demand are two sides of the same coin, you can only consume corresponding to what you produce and they produce like mad. The US does not, at least nothing that can be exported to offset the imports.
[/quote]
Why would they need to convert American Dollars , they could use our money to buy from other countries and use their money domestically to keep down their people[/quote]
I dont know.
Either they painted themselves into a corner and try to keep this going so that they face no political unrest, or they are planning something else.
I dunno, but the Chinese government is probably the only one I would not bet on being too incompetent on pulling something spectacular of and taking decades to get there.
who cares? By devaluing their currency they are allowing us to purchase goods cheaply than otherwise. This benefits the american consumer.
IMO the Chinese Government’s devalued currency only effects their domestic markets ,The sell their products to America just under what America could. I am not even sure Chinese products are cheaper any more .
I believe it is just like the Mexicans taking work from Americans in the South West. . They do no come in with some rock bottom price . They come in just a little below what a person can that has proper Insurance and that pay their taxes.
You can get caught up in your free market bull shit , but it is short sighted. WE are talking about making America better. Not getting something for 2 cents cheaper 
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
IMO the Chinese Government’s devalued currency only effects their domestic markets ,The sell their products to America just under what America could. I am not even sure Chinese products are cheaper any more .
I believe it is just like the Mexicans taking work from Americans in the South West. . They do no come in with some rock bottom price . They come in just a little below what a person can that has proper Insurance and that pay their taxes.
You can get caught up in your free market bull shit , but it is short sighted. WE are talking about making America better. Not getting something for 2 cents cheaper [/quote]
Everytime something gets 2 cents cheaper America gets a little bit better.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
You can get caught up in your free market bull shit , but it is short sighted. WE are talking about making America better. Not getting something for 2 cents cheaper [/quote]
Sorry but that was what made America great in the first place. It has been systematically destroyed over the decades though. And as long as people think the way you do it will never return.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]soccerplayer wrote:
I would rather be in the bottom 20% of earners in the US right now than in the top 20% 300 years ago.
Technological advancement allows for a better life across the board (there is a trickle down effect). Free trade allows for the fastest technological advancement. Therefore, free trade is the best way for improving everybody’s life.[/quote]
We agree about 300 nyears ago:) I would think it would be easier today to be in the bottom %10 now than the top %1 300 years ago.
We do how ever disagree on free trade. I am for fair trade , IMO free trade is some mythical Beast that no one has ever captured. Fair trade IMO is the best we can hope for[/quote]
LOL at using the word fair to denote complete control by one group of people who run things according to their own personal sense of fairness even if that means forcing people to do things against their will.[/quote]
you are correct , it is asserting a little more control to Maximize your gain in the deal . It is something everybody does. I think the word forcing is way to strong. The word is fair.[/quote]
Force is to strong a word to mean making someone do something they don’t want to under threat of violence and imprisonment?[/quote]
I would never condone that type of trade.[/quote]
So you don’t condone government control of trade?
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
IMO the Chinese Government’s devalued currency only effects their domestic markets ,The sell their products to America just under what America could. I am not even sure Chinese products are cheaper any more .
I believe it is just like the Mexicans taking work from Americans in the South West. . They do no come in with some rock bottom price . They come in just a little below what a person can that has proper Insurance and that pay their taxes.
You can get caught up in your free market bull shit , but it is short sighted. WE are talking about making America better. Not getting something for 2 cents cheaper [/quote]
Everytime something gets 2 cents cheaper America gets a little bit better.
[/quote]
Things do not get better, they just get 2 cents cheaper
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]soccerplayer wrote:
I would rather be in the bottom 20% of earners in the US right now than in the top 20% 300 years ago.
Technological advancement allows for a better life across the board (there is a trickle down effect). Free trade allows for the fastest technological advancement. Therefore, free trade is the best way for improving everybody’s life.[/quote]
We agree about 300 nyears ago:) I would think it would be easier today to be in the bottom %10 now than the top %1 300 years ago.
We do how ever disagree on free trade. I am for fair trade , IMO free trade is some mythical Beast that no one has ever captured. Fair trade IMO is the best we can hope for[/quote]
LOL at using the word fair to denote complete control by one group of people who run things according to their own personal sense of fairness even if that means forcing people to do things against their will.[/quote]
you are correct , it is asserting a little more control to Maximize your gain in the deal . It is something everybody does. I think the word forcing is way to strong. The word is fair.[/quote]
Force is to strong a word to mean making someone do something they don’t want to under threat of violence and imprisonment?[/quote]
I would never condone that type of trade.[/quote]
So you don’t condone government control of trade?[/quote]
No i do condone Government control
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
No i do condone Government control
[/quote]
So, how does the government do that without “making someone do something they don’t want to under threat of violence and imprisonment”
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]soccerplayer wrote:
I would rather be in the bottom 20% of earners in the US right now than in the top 20% 300 years ago.
Technological advancement allows for a better life across the board (there is a trickle down effect). Free trade allows for the fastest technological advancement. Therefore, free trade is the best way for improving everybody’s life.[/quote]
We agree about 300 nyears ago:) I would think it would be easier today to be in the bottom %10 now than the top %1 300 years ago.
We do how ever disagree on free trade. I am for fair trade , IMO free trade is some mythical Beast that no one has ever captured. Fair trade IMO is the best we can hope for[/quote]
LOL at using the word fair to denote complete control by one group of people who run things according to their own personal sense of fairness even if that means forcing people to do things against their will.[/quote]
you are correct , it is asserting a little more control to Maximize your gain in the deal . It is something everybody does. I think the word forcing is way to strong. The word is fair.[/quote]
Force is to strong a word to mean making someone do something they don’t want to under threat of violence and imprisonment?[/quote]
I would never condone that type of trade.[/quote]
So you don’t condone government control of trade?[/quote]
Do I understand you correctly , that you think that cheap goods is the best we can do for the economy ?
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]soccerplayer wrote:
I would rather be in the bottom 20% of earners in the US right now than in the top 20% 300 years ago.
Technological advancement allows for a better life across the board (there is a trickle down effect). Free trade allows for the fastest technological advancement. Therefore, free trade is the best way for improving everybody’s life.[/quote]
We agree about 300 nyears ago:) I would think it would be easier today to be in the bottom %10 now than the top %1 300 years ago.
We do how ever disagree on free trade. I am for fair trade , IMO free trade is some mythical Beast that no one has ever captured. Fair trade IMO is the best we can hope for[/quote]
LOL at using the word fair to denote complete control by one group of people who run things according to their own personal sense of fairness even if that means forcing people to do things against their will.[/quote]
you are correct , it is asserting a little more control to Maximize your gain in the deal . It is something everybody does. I think the word forcing is way to strong. The word is fair.[/quote]
Force is to strong a word to mean making someone do something they don’t want to under threat of violence and imprisonment?[/quote]
I would never condone that type of trade.[/quote]
So you don’t condone government control of trade?[/quote]
Do I understand you correctly , that you think that cheap goods is the best we can do for the economy ?[/quote]
I don’t think you have the right to control the “economy”. And by economy I mean individuals.
[quote]cloakmanor wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
You can get caught up in your free market bull shit , but it is short sighted. WE are talking about making America better. Not getting something for 2 cents cheaper [/quote]
Sorry but that was what made America great in the first place. It has been systematically destroyed over the decades though. And as long as people think the way you do it will never return.[/quote]
Please give me an example of free market