Poll says Iraq NOT reducing terror

Off Topic
1

A poll published by USA Today (you know, those commie liberal media hippies) says that 70 percent of Americans do not think the war in Iraq is reducing the threat of terrorism.

And 71% favor the UN taking a strong leadership roll in establishing a new government in post-war Iraq.

Two-thirds do not think the US should leave unless Iraq is stable.

But 4 out of 5 people said it was not critically important that the new Iraqi government be friendly to the US.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-12-03-iraq-poll_x.htm

What exactly did invading Iraq accomplish, except deposing a dictator? Nothing. We haven’t met a single objective in Iraq OR Afghanistan yet, have we?

At what cost? 200 billion and counting. Hundreds of US lives, and the lives of thousands of innocent Iraqis.

And there is no end in sight, to the massive waste of taxpayers’ money, or the US casualties.

2


let’s spend money on government programs!!!

3


listen to your hero

4

In Afghanistan, the Taliban is regrouping. Poppy production (for narcotics) is back to pre-war levels.

And Donald Rumsfeld is meeting with Afghani warlords.

5

What you posted is the dumbest, most pointless piece of evidence you could use for your argument. Furthermore, it’s logic is completely off base.

Basically what you just sent us says:
The war in Iraq was premised on the basis that it would help stop terrorism.

A majority of people do not believe that it is helping stop terrorism.

Therefore, the war in Iraq has done nothing slow terrorism.

Since the goal was to slow terrorism, the war in Iraq is not meeting its goal and simply costing us human lives.

Therefore, the war in Iraq is a failure.

It would be like saying: It’s 1492 and most of the people believe the world is flat. Therefore the world is flat.

Lumpy, if you’re going to make another one of your stupid hippy arguments, at least use some decent logic and evidence.

6

I wonder what the majority of Iraqis think. I’m sure the ones that had it good in Saddam’s regime are bit miffed but I also think a lot more people are better off now than they were under the threats and intimidation.

I think the 71% of people that are fond of the UN are pretty ignorant of the track record of the UN and don’t have a clue what international law really means. While there are plenty of places that are willing to try international crimes none of them really have any authority unless it’s given to them. For instance Yugoslavia had to give Milosevec over for trial, it’s not like the world law cops busted in and caught him. It’s like a voluntary legal system, pretty similar to the UN and my grandmother in toughness and lack of teeth.

I think the problem in Afghanistan lies in Pakistan. They are our “ally” but only sort of. There are caves all over the Paki side of the border and the US can’t go in there but the Taliban can. We can’t do much because if we piss off the Pakis our tenuous relationship will evaporate. We used this spider thin leverage to avert a nuclear exchange between the Pakis and the Indians. If it happens again we’ll have to rely on some studs like the UN, and that pretty well means nukes will be flying in all directions. I wonder how many UN resolutions you have to pile on a nuke missile to stop it from flying?

7

After doing my senior project on Saddam I was really for the war on Iraq, but now I…as most people don’t know what the fuck the US is doing. It’s weird that our nation has gone from very safe to a place of panic. Remember when the news told us to buy plastic and duct ape and block off all windows and doors to our house…WTF was with that. I love the US OK but sometimes like as of late we do some stupid shit. I used to be behind Bush and his actions but we have gotten no where. I don’t know what to say about all of this but I never thought there would be a war or terrorism threats on the US in my lifetime. A bit naive I guess. I hope some day this will end…if not I will just move to Canada! Montreal rocks! I wonder what my (18 now) generation will need to deal with in the future…

8

I thought getting rid of the Taliban government and removing Al-Quida’s stronghold in Afghanistan were objectives. Same thing goes with gettig rid of Saddam’s rule in Iraq. I might be mistaken though.

I saw something on television the other night that was quite telling. I was watching that stinking, lying, no-good, ultra conservative, independant but used to be a registered republican, Bill O’Rielly, and he had on the editor of the Progressive magazine. Mr. editor made the startling statement that Bush lied to us about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Bill then asked him if Bill Clinton also lied to us when he said the very same thing regarding the WMDs and the danger Saddam posed. Mr. editor distinguished Clinton from Bush and said that Clinton was merely susceptible to lies.

Well, I’m glad he cleared that up.

9

What is and is not a waste of taxpayer’s money is a matter of perspective. Social security provides a benefit (if you can call it that) that most (I said most)people could provide themselves. Stamping out foreign and domestic threats is something that only the government can do. I’d like for taxpayer money to be used for those things governments do best. So for me, $200 billion of taxpayer money is ok to spend fighting terrorist and the like. But I don’t like when a similar amount is spent on many domestic programs simply because government spending almost never gets the same bang for the buck.

10

It’s weird that our nation has gone from very safe to a place of panic.

WTF? On 9-11-01 a couple thousand people went up in a flash in New York City. Safe? Then?

Panic now? If there is what is it over but media hype? Where and when was the last terror attack on US soil? Before the Afghanistan and Iraq wars or after?

Perception of safety is easily manipulated by the media and the public eagerly gobbles up the fear mongering. Shit, they have live TV coverage of empty store shelves when a product has been recalled because it MIGHT have been tampered with. Just because there is a mob mentality and the pussies are leading the mob doesn’t mean the sky is actually falling.

You know my mom is home a lot. She’s a worry wart. She doesn’t like my dad to drive by the big city because he doesn’t hear well and he might leave the blinker on and get shot. She saw a story about that on TV. It doesn’t matter that none of the neighbors has been shot at, nor has anyone we know. The ironic thing is that he almost got killed a few miles from home when a woman on a Harley crossed the centerline and centerpunched his little Toyota pickup. Gee, he was doing something my mom percieved as safe too. Weird huh?

11

Lumpy you fucking hippy. Read, Comprehend, Learn, then set yourself on fire. PLEASE.

“Since President Bush declared an end to major combat on May 1…
. The first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on active duty.
. Over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens.
. Nearly all of Iraq’s 400 courts are functioning.
. The Iraqi judiciary is fully independent.
. On Monday, October 6 power generation hit 4,518 megawatts-exceeding the prewar average.
. All 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are open, as are nearly all primary and secondary schools.
. By October 1, Coalition forces had rehab-ed over 1,500 schools - 500 more than scheduled.
. Teachers earn from 12 to 25 times their former salaries.
. All 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open.
. Doctors salaries are at least eight times what they were under Saddam.
. Pharmaceutical distribution has gone from essentially nothing to 700 tons in May to a current total of 12,000 tons.
. The Coalition has helped administer over 22 million vaccination doses to Iraq’s children.
. A Coalition program has cleared over 14,000 kilometers of Iraq’s 27,000 kilometers of weed-choked canals which now irrigate tens of thousands of farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000 Iraqi men and women.
. We have restored over three-quarters of prewar telephone services and over two-thirds of the potable water production.
. There are 4,900 full-service telephone connections. We expect 50,000 by year-end.
. The wheels of commerce are turning. From bicycles to satellite dishes to cars and trucks, businesses are coming to life in all major cities and towns.
. 95 percent of all prewar bank customers have service and first-time customers are opening accounts daily.
. Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses.
. The central bank is fully independent.
. Iraq has one of the worlds most growth-oriented investment and banking laws.
. Iraq has a single, unified currency for the first time in 15 years.
. Satellite TV dishes are legal.
. Foreign journalists aren’t on 10-day visas paying mandatory and extortionate fees to the Ministry of Information for minders and other government spies.
. There is no Ministry of Information.
. There are more than 170 newspapers.
. You can buy satellite dishes on what seems like every street corner.
. Foreign journalists (and everyone else) are free to come and go.
. A nation that had not one single element - legislative, judicial or executive - of a representative government, now does.
. In Baghdad alone residents have selected 88 advisory councils. Baghdad’s first democratic transfer of power in 35 years happened when the city council elected its new chairman.
. Today in Iraq chambers of commerce, business, school and professional organizations are electing their leaders all over the country.
. 25 ministers, selected by the most representative governing body in Iraq’s history, run the day-to-day business of government.
.The Iraqi government regularly participates in international events. Since July the Iraqi government has been represented in over two dozen international meetings, including those of the UN General Assembly, the Arab League, the World Bank and IMF and, today, the Islamic Conference Summit. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs today announced that it is reopening over 30 Iraqi embassies around the world.
. Shia religious festivals that were all but banned, aren’t.
.For the first time in 35 years, in Karbala thousands of Shiites celebrate the pilgrimage of the 12th Imam.
. The Coalition has completed over 13,000 reconstruction projects, large and small, as part of a strategic plan for the reconstruction of Iraq.
. Uday and Queasy are dead - and no longer feeding innocent Iraqis to the zoo lions, raping the young daughters of local leaders to force cooperation, torturing Iraq’s soccer players for losing games, or
murdering critics.
. Children aren’t imprisoned or murdered when their parents disagree with the government.
. Political opponents aren’t imprisoned, tortured, executed, maimed, or are forced to watch their families die for disagreeing with Saddam.
. Millions of long-suffering Iraqis no longer live in perpetual terror.
. Saudis will hold municipal elections.
. Qatar is reforming education to give more choices to parents.
. Jordan is accelerating market economic reforms.
. The Nobel Peace Prize was awarded for the first time to an Iranian – a Muslim woman who speaks out with courage for human rights, for democracy and for peace.
. Saddam is gone.
. Iraq is free.
. President Bush has not faltered or failed.
. Yet, little or none of this information has been published by the Press corps that prides itself on bring you all the news that’s important. Iraq under US lead control has come further in six months than Germany did in seven years or Japan did in nine years following WWII. Military deaths from fanatic Nazi’s, and Japanese numbered in the thousands and continued for over three years after WWII victory was declared.
It took the US over four months to clear away the twin tower debris, let alone attempt to build something else in its place.
Now, take into account that almost every Democrat leader in the House and Senate has fought President Bush on every aspect of his handling of this country’s war and the postwar reconstruction; and that they continue to claim on a daily basis on national TV that this conflict has been a failure.
Taking everything into consideration, even the unfortunate loss of our sons and daughters in this conflict, do you think anyone else in the world could have accomplished as much as the United States and the Bush administration in so short a period of time?”

12

The ultimate outcome in Iraq is that the Islamists will take control, and I don’t think there is much that either we or the UN can do about it now. We’ve spent billions and billions of dollars to create a new fundamentalist Muslim country called West Iran.

Fucking beautiful.

13

You are right on. If you turn your TV off and stop reading the news online, your life gets a lot less stressful in a big way.

Look at the stock market. For something that is really only beneficial in the long term, the media creates a daily panic for absolutely no good reason. Why do I need to know the employment rates if I’m either unemployed (and more depressed) or employed (and shitting bricks because I’m now terrified of losing my job or just worried in general).

The best thing to do to get rid of the stupid perceptions the media likes to ram down everyone’s throat is to ignore them.

14

Dude I was talking about the media. They always try to have the biggest story to sell us on. Like we needed to buy duct tape and shit. I agree with you…I think. We seemed to get scared pretty easy, is that agreed? Have you seem bowling for columbine? When he does the animation on Americans being scared? I thought it was fucking hilarious.

15

but biltritewave, that survey of lumpy’s says that bush is failing in iraq, nothing is getting done, and money is being wasted!

whispers very nice info, man!

16

Perhaps if our leaders over there had an idea of what they were going to do when the war ended, then the people would be better off. The fact that they don’t know how to transfer the power back and are now asking for international help when it seemed so unimportant before, proves that we weren’t there for the Iraqi people.

17

Scoreboard, biltritewave.

Well done.

18

First of all, to Morg who sarcastically said “Lets spend money on
Government programs!” DUH???

Republicans have grown the size of the government to unprecedented levels. republicans are the ones spending billions so that Iraq can have cell phones, a new zip code system, new prisons and hospitals, etc. Republicans have initiated the largest entitlement programs in this country’s history. These programs have been described by other Republicans as “endless pork”. As John McCain said, “Congress is spending money like a drunken sailor”. It is Republicans who are wasting unprecendented amounts of taxpayer money.

Second, the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld admitted that we may be creating terrorists faster than we are killing them. I personally believe this is the case, and suspect Rumsfeld does too. Otherwise, I doubt Rumsfeld would bring it up, since it casts doubts on the mission.

Finally, read the thread “54 of what?” about Colonel Hackworth.

"In his email to Colonel Hackworth, who he has known for eight years, the soldier with the 4th Infantry Division wrote of Sunday’s incident: “Hack, most of the casualties were civilians, not insurgents or criminals as being reported.”

He added “We are probably turning many Iraqi against us and I am afraid instead of climbing out of the hole, we are digging ourselves in deeper.”

To Biltrightweave, I don’t think some of your statistics are accurate. For example, I read that only one-third or Iraqi schools are open, and that most of them don’t have enough books or desks, the construction on new buildings is already falling apart, etc.

But lets assume your stats are correct… what exactly is your point? That throwing hundreds of billions of dollars of US taxpayers’ money into Iraq is making the trains run on time? Big deal!

The fact is that we have not achieved any of the objectives in Iraq, except one: Saddam is no longer in power.

Iaq is not a democracy. There is a very good chance Iraq will not ever be a democracy.

We are not reducing the risks of terrorism against the US. We have turned the world’s public opinion against the US, and are likely creating new generations of terrorists.

We did not solve the political crisis in the Mid-East (some claimed the war would create peace between Israel and Palestine).

We have caused countries to increase their attempts to acquire nuclear weapons, because nukes can deter a Bush pre-emptive strike.

We set a precedent for other nations to make illegal pre-emptive strikes. How can we tell Pakistan they can’t attack India (or vice versa) as a premptive measure, when we’ve done it ourselves?

Yes it is nice to get rid of Saddam but that’s not why we attacked Iraq. We attacked because Iraq was supposedly an imminent threat. In truth, Iraq wasn’t even a threat to it’s own neighbors.

If there was a moral basis for attcking Iraq, we would not be cozying up to other dictatorships like we do in the former Soviet Union (Uzbekistan) we would have invaded Rwanda years ago, we would have invaded China, and so on. There is no such thing as “selective morality”. If there was a moral basis behind the war, why did Bush’s own church condemn the illegal pre-emptive strikes? Why did the pope condemn it?

There is a constantly-changing rationale for starting the war, which is a sure sign that the rationale is probably bullshit. Whatever the rationale is, a government is obligated to be completely honest with it’s citizens, and this administration has not been honest.

19

biltritewave

Great post.

Responces to it will come in three forms: (1) its a lie; (2) it doen’t matter becuase somewhere, someone or something was neglected in the process; and/or (3)we only did it to take control of the oil and therefore all these great things are really meaningless.

20

Republicans have grown the size of the government to unprecedented levels. republicans are the ones spending billions so that Iraq can have cell phones, a new zip code system, new prisons and hospitals, etc.

You say that like prisons and hospitals are a bad thing. No, there is not a democracy in Iraq and there may not be one at the end of this but you know when the Founding Dads of this country stood up on their hind legs and fought like men against tyranny there was no guarantee that there would be democracy here either. What we got then and the Iraqis have now is a fucking chance. That’s more than they had under Saddam and it’s more than they ever would have if someone hadn’t done something besides wring their hands and write one more worthless resolution.

So it costs some money, boo fucking hoo. Take a walk around your town and try and find one person that has it near as bad as the majority of people had it in Iraq before we removed the regime there. If you are really sick and need a doctor here you can go into the hospital and they have to treat you whether you have the money or not. In Iraq they could try and treat you but they lacked any medicine, supplies, or even good sanitation in some spots.

Yeah, things are really bad. We’re spending more money and helping more people than Sally Struthers could hope to in her wildest wet dreams. Damn, we sure are brutal.

First the war was wrong, now it’s just too expensive. Pretty soon all that will be left to bitch about is that the Fab 5 from Queer Eye haven’t redecorated the place yet.