Police Ticket Quota

Off Topic
181

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]Brett620 wrote:

[quote]Velvet Elvis wrote:
I would add that in many departments - especially non “unionized” ones in the south - if you come under investigation, you can be hauled in to internal affairs and interrogated about actions that could (if prosecuted) later be deemed criminal… All without the right to an attorney. Failure to answer in this setting will result in immediate suspension. If you are found to be lying, most likely you face termination.
[/quote]

Lying in my Dept for any reason under any circumstance is grounds for immediate disempowerment, suspension and termination.

Dishonesty is a class “AA” offense. The worst. It’s actually coded WORSE than the charge of “police brutality” or “excessive force” which is a class “A” offense.

That’s how seriously we value integrity.

Quite different than the hipster working at Google or Apple I’m sure.

[/quote]

Yep. My agency will fry you for lying about anything.
[/quote]

Really? I’m sure there are different policies in every department, but my attorneys take on this is entirely different. I was arrested once after a brief exchange with a cop where I told him to go fuck himself. He then summoned another officer to arrest me while he directed traffic. Once we got to the magistrates, the cop I had the exchange with wasn’t even there, and the one that cited me acted like it was him. He also went into great detail about how very loudly I yelled, which is impossible considering the severe damage and scarring of my esophagus and vocal chords which makes speaking above an “inside voice” virtually impossible.

I had case law in my favor and beat it on appeal, but that officers entire testimony was a complete fabrication.

Maybe they don’t have the same policies.
[/quote]

Yea. I’m sure those days are on the way out. I’ve seen a couple guys punted early in their career for not telling the whole truth. People will always make mistakes, but lying about it is the worst mistake that can be made. [/quote]

Ehh maybe, maybe not. Aside from the Pittsburgh police force, all of the others around here are very small and barely make headlines except in cases like John Gammage, and seem to get away with quite a bit up to and including murder. Especially in town- If you get out of line or for what ever reason they don’t like you, there is a good chance you will end up dead somewhere between being put in the car and the station.

Within the same force as I was referring to in quotes there are guys I’ve done lines of confiscated evidence with numerous times. Everybody knows them too, but no one ever says anything. There is a very strong element of being on their good side and things are good, or on the bad side and things are very very bad.
[/quote]

My take on personal integrity:

If you lie about anything in the course of your duties, you can’t be trusted.

How are we supposed to rely on your word in court?

The courts have granted police officers a ton a weight. We are AUTOMATICALLY deemed credible witnesses just via our profession. Lying compromises that.

Heck, crafty defense attys in our city would get the personnel files on the officers who lied and where reprimanded, but still on the job(if they weren’t fired, that is). That would be an issue every time that officer went to court. That’s a legit tactic… yes, those tricky defense attys can do things like that. And then share it with their colleagues.

182

[quote]Brett620 wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Friend of mine (actually he still posts here on occasion) is a constitutional lawyer. He has plenty of stories about planted evidence and illegal searches and other beat tricks employed by the less-scrupulous members of the otherwise unimpeachably honest and noble law-enforcement fraternity.

Anyway, when I first met him, his little daughter was just over two years old. He asked her, “what can you tell Uncle Varq about cops?”

She immediately replied, with angelic innocence, “no talk cops.”

Only two years old and already understood Miranda better than most people. [/quote]

Let’s hope she never becomes a rape victim.

I wonder if she would care to make a victim statement?

Remember, the knife cuts both ways…

For every person we arrest (with the exception of crimes against the state or “vice” offenses), there is always a victim we are helping. Everyone seems to forget that. They just want to focus on when an officer illegally searched their brother-in-law back in 1987 when he detected an odor of marijuana but found nothing. No one focuses on the everyday stories of officers saving people’s lives… And it’s a job that I love doing, and none of us does it for the recognition. Just when you evaluate us, remember for most crimes, there is always a victim on the other end saying “Thank You”.

[/quote]

The way this little girl is being raised, I highly doubt she will be a victim of anything.

My post wasn’t a knock on cops, by the way. I’ve had a lot of interaction recently with a number of officers who have been handling a burglary case I was involved in (I caught the burglar in my house), and they have without exception been courteous and professional. My friend the lawyer has seen the exceptions to this rule however, and is teaching his daughter accordingly.

183

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Next time you get pulled over for speeding, ask to see the reading. If you get that far, ask to see the calibration paperwork.[/quote]

^ Tip: do not follow this advice if you want to avoid getting arrested and/or beat.[/quote]

Doubtful. But you’d rather just assume that’s going to happen and not defend your own legal rights here?[/quote]

Gee, I would say recent events over the last ten years make it more likely that I could get beat for daring to ask that question than that I can get away with asking and not get met with added resistance and attitude from the cop…but then, you may be a tad lighter than me so no worries.
[/quote]

Black thugs who rape and murder get 0 air time, even if its black on white.

When a supposedly “white” guy kills a street thug scoping a neighbourhood all hell breaks loose. The USA does not have a black minority, you are going to get ahead of white people, probably on par with white trash so to keep clutching at the numbers straw reeks of desperation.

Anything to claim victimhood these days eh?

184

[quote]Brett620 wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Friend of mine (actually he still posts here on occasion) is a constitutional lawyer. He has plenty of stories about planted evidence and illegal searches and other beat tricks employed by the less-scrupulous members of the otherwise unimpeachably honest and noble law-enforcement fraternity.

Anyway, when I first met him, his little daughter was just over two years old. He asked her, “what can you tell Uncle Varq about cops?”

She immediately replied, with angelic innocence, “no talk cops.”

Only two years old and already understood Miranda better than most people. [/quote]

Let’s hope she never becomes a rape victim.

I wonder if she would care to make a victim statement?

Remember, the knife cuts both ways…

For every person we arrest (with the exception of crimes against the state or “vice” offenses), there is always a victim we are helping. Everyone seems to forget that. They just want to focus on when an officer illegally searched their brother-in-law back in 1987 when he detected an odor of marijuana but found nothing. No one focuses on the everyday stories of officers saving people’s lives… And it’s a job that I love doing, and none of us does it for the recognition. Just when you evaluate us, remember for most crimes, there is always a victim on the other end saying “Thank You”.

[/quote]

Haha. Yeah, bet she (and Papa) would be the first ones running to the police station for an interview and a statement!

Lol

185

[quote]mapwhap wrote:
Push,

I did correct myself on the consensual search thing after I watched the video. It was about two or three responses down from my first post.

And I don’t recall the poster who claimed that it wasn’t exigent circumstances in Boston. I’m sorry, but if you don’t consider a terrorist running around in a residential neighborhood in the dark exigent, then I really don’t know what to tell you. I don’t mind a debate on the subject, but if you’re going to be absurd about it, then why bother? I mean, really…if that isn’t a textbook example of exigent circumstances, then what is?[/quote]

I am the poster who questioned the existence of exigent circumstances in Boston. I don’t believe exigent circumstances apply for a search of every home in an area. The following details an example of exigent circumstances: Consent, Exigent Circumstances, and Warrantless Home Entry

It could be argued that the searches were done to prevent the escape of the suspects, but to that I would say, when random homes are being searched and tying up multiple officers, how much more likely is it that the suspect will be able to escape from the area?

Let’s not forget that Tsarnaev was located after martial law was lifted.

186

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

[quote]Brett620 wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Friend of mine (actually he still posts here on occasion) is a constitutional lawyer. He has plenty of stories about planted evidence and illegal searches and other beat tricks employed by the less-scrupulous members of the otherwise unimpeachably honest and noble law-enforcement fraternity.

Anyway, when I first met him, his little daughter was just over two years old. He asked her, “what can you tell Uncle Varq about cops?”

She immediately replied, with angelic innocence, “no talk cops.”

Only two years old and already understood Miranda better than most people. [/quote]

Let’s hope she never becomes a rape victim.

I wonder if she would care to make a victim statement?

Remember, the knife cuts both ways…

For every person we arrest (with the exception of crimes against the state or “vice” offenses), there is always a victim we are helping. Everyone seems to forget that. They just want to focus on when an officer illegally searched their brother-in-law back in 1987 when he detected an odor of marijuana but found nothing. No one focuses on the everyday stories of officers saving people’s lives… And it’s a job that I love doing, and none of us does it for the recognition. Just when you evaluate us, remember for most crimes, there is always a victim on the other end saying “Thank You”.

[/quote]

Haha. Yeah, bet she (and Papa) would be the first ones running to the police station for an interview and a statement!

Lol
[/quote]

So the fall back position is that when someone gets raped who else are they going to call?

That is pretty weak. In fact, it’s pathetic.

The simple fact that this is agreed upon by several police officers from multiple forces throughout the US exposes the arrogance that is endemic to the profession.

Lol at wondering why the public perception of law enforcement is not so good.

187

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
So the fall back position is that when someone gets raped who else are they going to call?

That is pretty weak. In fact, it’s pathetic.

The simple fact that this is agreed upon by several police officers from multiple forces throughout the US exposes the arrogance that is endemic to the profession.

Lol at wondering why the public perception of law enforcement is not so good.
[/quote]

I also feel the need to question how many TRUE rape victims these folks have dealt with. True rape happens occasionally, no doubt. However, I’d say it’s far less common than a prostitute reporting she was raped after not being paid, or a drunk girl claiming to have been raped after letting somebody who didn’t call her again bang her.

188

453×577 56.3 KB

“So tell me, Billy, does your daddy keep any guns in the house?”

NorCal, Brett, you fail to grasp my meaning, and the intent of my lawyer friend. He’s not saying to never speak to a police officer ever, just that opening your mouth in the presence of a cop is not always in your best interest, even if you are innocent. Every time you read a suspect his Miranda rights, you are reminding him of his right not to be coerced into self-incrimination. His right, in other words, to “no talk cops”.

Here’s another attorney explaining why to “no talk cops”.

189

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
So the fall back position is that when someone gets raped who else are they going to call?

That is pretty weak. In fact, it’s pathetic.

The simple fact that this is agreed upon by several police officers from multiple forces throughout the US exposes the arrogance that is endemic to the profession.

Lol at wondering why the public perception of law enforcement is not so good.
[/quote]

I also feel the need to question how many TRUE rape victims these folks have dealt with. True rape happens occasionally, no doubt. However, I’d say it’s far less common than a prostitute reporting she was raped after not being paid, or a drunk girl claiming to have been raped after letting somebody who didn’t call her again bang her.[/quote]

That would be pretty interesting if the subject were the validity of the claim of rape, but it seems that we are discussing the ethics of law enforcement.

Like, the attitude that it doesn’t matter what they do or whether you like them or not, because when something bad happens you will either call them or have no just recourse.

Any thoughts on that?

190

The Cops Amaze Me

Some days I honestly don?t know how they do it.

Like yesterday, at the Navy Yard.

We know about the bad guy, we know about his military record and his criminal record. And we know what he did.

But we don?t know much about how he came to stop doing what he was doing.

We don?t know much about how they took him down.

But what we do know is impressive.

Which gets back to the cops.

Yesterday morning about 8:20, the first 9-1-1 call came in of trouble in Building 197. Moments later, an alert was broadcast and officers began speeding toward the Navy Yard from across the District of Columbia.

Regular patrol officers.

Some from schools, some from speed-enforcement details, all from the first hour a new shift and a new week. Old, young, male, female, black, white. They just came. Primarily from the Metropolitan Police Department and the Federal Park Police.

Officers whose lives were going from zero to 60 in the blink of an eye. Officers who went from the sleepy good morning of a Monday dawn to the real-world battlefield of an active shooter.

They began to arrive almost immediately.

And quickly formed up into an assault team.

They didn?t wait for the SWAT team. They didn?t stand back and wait for the armored personnel carrier. They formed up and went in.

Specifically, seven minutes after the first call, an ad hoc team of park police and district police with AR-15s ran into the building in their patrol uniforms.

They ran to the sound of the gunfire.

They closed with the enemy, and engaged him, and killed him.

And by every account some 10 minutes after the first word of trouble had breathed across the police radio, regular patrol officers had killed the gunman and ended his assault.

He fought the law, and the law won.

It?s impossible to calculate how many lives that saved. It?s impossible to calculate how much expertise that took.

It?s impossible to grasp the mindset of readiness that must permeate the men and women of law enforcement. Without notice, the police can be thrown into life-and-death situations where every second and every decision counts.

And sometimes, like yesterday, they must operate in an environment that is heartbreaking and troubling. The responding officers at the Navy Yard ran past the dead and dying, their blood pooling where they lay, in order to press their attack against a monster.

And that was just yesterday.

Every day it is different, every call it is different. Sometimes they are comforting heartbroken children, other times they are knocking on the door to inform someone of the death of a relative. Sometimes they are spat upon, other times they are vomited upon. They are hated and loved, cursed and praised, sometimes on the same call.

They see the carnage of the highways, the sorrow of abused and neglected children, the collapse of a battered wife. They talk the despondent off bridges, they catch the drunk drivers, they try to mediate family and neighbor disputes.

And half the time they do it while being cussed by one group or another. Maybe it?s the neighborhood people. Maybe it?s the pastors. Maybe it?s an activist with a cell-phone video.

The politicians trash them, the residents trash them, the police brass trashes them. They?re ready to lay down their lives for strangers, but heaven help them if anybody thinks they were impolite to a citizen. Heaven help them if they disrespected somebody?s culture.

They fight crime all day, every day, and usually it is a pretty low-key affair. Until there?s a glint of sunlight or a stumbling drunk or a dispatch on the radio.

That?s when it?s Superman time.

That?s when the next 10 minutes of your life are going to be some of the most important in your life.

Like yesterday at the Navy Yard.

Across a big city, the routine of the morning worked its way out. Until there was a cry for help, and the sirens began to roar, and a crew of men and women from at least a couple of departments ran toward the danger.

And killed it.

Before he could kill anybody else.

The cops amaze me.

191

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
That would be pretty interesting if the subject were the validity of the claim of rape, but it seems that we are discussing the ethics of law enforcement.

Like, the attitude that it doesn’t matter what they do or whether you like them or not, because when something bad happens you will either call them or have no just recourse.

Any thoughts on that?
[/quote]

Most police officers start their careers intending to help people. Those who are most willing to give up that goal(and occasionally never had it-the ones who saw high school from the inside of a locker) are the ones most likely to be promoted(for the most part). Those who remain unwilling to completely compromise are stuck in the position of either being fired for lack of production or occasionally bending to their supervisors.

It is silly to blame police officers for what they do on the job. Most would be more than happy to sit around a parking lot and chit-chat for the duration of their shift unless something required their attention.

A police officer who is willing to do whatever his bosses tell him will do extremely well unless/until he is called on it(which is unlikely because police officers are typically dealing with people who can’t afford a lawyer to defend their rights), at which point his department/government(local/state/federal/whatever) will shit on him for doing exactly what it asked.

My question regarding the validity of a rape claim is very much related to what they’re talking about. The average person will NEVER call the police unless forced to by a para-governmental organization(such as insurance companies in the case of a wreck). The police deal with about 1% of the population 99% of the time(excluding traffic stops). Pretending an average decent citizen is at all likely to have to ever report a rape(or robbery, etc.) is somewhat disingenuous.

The only times I can think of in which police consistently deal with decent citizens are traffic(wrecks, stops) and burglaries(many decent people are too trusting, don’t lock up, and make themselves easy targets).

The problem can be summed up by saying that Barney Fife is more likely than Andy Griffith to be promoted. Barney is then more likely to promote more Barneys. Andy will not get anywhere in Barney’s department. Andy has nearly disappeared from police work because government needs Barneys to do its dirty work. Everybody in police work knows who the Barneys are, but they have no control over who ELECTED leaders promote. The problem, like all problems in government, is voters.

Edit: I’d say it’s a pretty safe bet that Andys killed the guy in the Naval yard shooting, while Barneys either supervised or screamed on the radio so that a supervisor knew they were there.

Many times people think police are victimizing the innocent while ignoring the fact that there are almost no innocent people in the eyes of the government-the web of laws is so vast that almost nobody is innocent.

The only nice part is that those who are most likely to vote for more government are also most likely to deal with the police. There’s some justice there, I suppose.

194

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:
The Cops Amaze Me

Some days I honestly don?t know how they do it.

Like yesterday, at the Navy Yard.

We know about the bad guy, we know about his military record and his criminal record. And we know what he did.

But we don?t know much about how he came to stop doing what he was doing.

We don?t know much about how they took him down.

But what we do know is impressive.

Which gets back to the cops.

Yesterday morning about 8:20, the first 9-1-1 call came in of trouble in Building 197. Moments later, an alert was broadcast and officers began speeding toward the Navy Yard from across the District of Columbia.

Regular patrol officers.

Some from schools, some from speed-enforcement details, all from the first hour a new shift and a new week. Old, young, male, female, black, white. They just came. Primarily from the Metropolitan Police Department and the Federal Park Police.

Officers whose lives were going from zero to 60 in the blink of an eye. Officers who went from the sleepy good morning of a Monday dawn to the real-world battlefield of an active shooter.

They began to arrive almost immediately.

And quickly formed up into an assault team.

They didn?t wait for the SWAT team. They didn?t stand back and wait for the armored personnel carrier. They formed up and went in.

Specifically, seven minutes after the first call, an ad hoc team of park police and district police with AR-15s ran into the building in their patrol uniforms.

They ran to the sound of the gunfire.

They closed with the enemy, and engaged him, and killed him.

And by every account some 10 minutes after the first word of trouble had breathed across the police radio, regular patrol officers had killed the gunman and ended his assault.

He fought the law, and the law won.

It?s impossible to calculate how many lives that saved. It?s impossible to calculate how much expertise that took.

It?s impossible to grasp the mindset of readiness that must permeate the men and women of law enforcement. Without notice, the police can be thrown into life-and-death situations where every second and every decision counts.

And sometimes, like yesterday, they must operate in an environment that is heartbreaking and troubling. The responding officers at the Navy Yard ran past the dead and dying, their blood pooling where they lay, in order to press their attack against a monster.

And that was just yesterday.

Every day it is different, every call it is different. Sometimes they are comforting heartbroken children, other times they are knocking on the door to inform someone of the death of a relative. Sometimes they are spat upon, other times they are vomited upon. They are hated and loved, cursed and praised, sometimes on the same call.

They see the carnage of the highways, the sorrow of abused and neglected children, the collapse of a battered wife. They talk the despondent off bridges, they catch the drunk drivers, they try to mediate family and neighbor disputes.

And half the time they do it while being cussed by one group or another. Maybe it?s the neighborhood people. Maybe it?s the pastors. Maybe it?s an activist with a cell-phone video.

The politicians trash them, the residents trash them, the police brass trashes them. They?re ready to lay down their lives for strangers, but heaven help them if anybody thinks they were impolite to a citizen. Heaven help them if they disrespected somebody?s culture.

They fight crime all day, every day, and usually it is a pretty low-key affair. Until there?s a glint of sunlight or a stumbling drunk or a dispatch on the radio.

That?s when it?s Superman time.

That?s when the next 10 minutes of your life are going to be some of the most important in your life.

Like yesterday at the Navy Yard.

Across a big city, the routine of the morning worked its way out. Until there was a cry for help, and the sirens began to roar, and a crew of men and women from at least a couple of departments ran toward the danger.

And killed it.

Before he could kill anybody else.

The cops amaze me.[/quote]

Doooood, you are seriously missing the point here.[/quote]

But Push, don’t you know the old saying? “a few good apples makes all the rotten apples in the barrel irrelevant.”

You mean you’ve never heard that old saying? Hmmm… must be thinking of something else.

195

[quote]NickViar wrote:

It is silly to blame police officers for what they do on the job.
[/quote]

Thats plenty, thanks.

196

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

It is silly to blame police officers for what they do on the job.
[/quote]

Thats plenty, thanks.
[/quote]

I guess we can continue worrying about the symptoms instead of the disease.

197

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

It is silly to blame police officers for what they do on the job.
[/quote]

Thats plenty, thanks.
[/quote]

I guess we can continue worrying about the symptoms instead of the disease. [/quote]

No, it is because even the officers here don’t agree with that.

They have remarked time and time again that they are glad that controls and accountability measures are in place.

198

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
“So tell me, Billy, does your daddy keep any guns in the house?”

NorCal, Brett, you fail to grasp my meaning, and the intent of my lawyer friend. He’s not saying to never speak to a police officer ever, just that opening your mouth in the presence of a cop is not always in your best interest, even if you are innocent. Every time you read a suspect his Miranda rights, you are reminding him of his right not to be coerced into self-incrimination. His right, in other words, to “no talk cops”.

Here’s another attorney explaining why to “no talk cops”.

Well, he’s def a shrewd def atty. I’ve seen dozens of them. He has a point, I will give him that. BUT, I would argue that talking to the police has its benefits if you are a suspect, but innocent.

Like I said, I work investigations. I have had situations where one of the suspects was able to eliminate themselves as a suspect by talking to me. He was able to provide information about his activity and whereabouts during the time of the incident that I was able to then verify after receiving this information. If not, he would have been charged.

I’ve also had cases where I suspected that one party was the guilty one and the other party may have had a far lesser role. But, since the suspected man who played the lesser role refused to talk about the incident (I told him he could do with with legal council), both were eventually charged. They let him off easy in court, but he still had to get arrested and had to pay to make a $20k bond. Sucks for him I guess. A few questions about some receipts/purchases and where he was during specific times and dates would have saved him a headache. But I had a case with PC on two suspects… I wanted a lock tight case on the primary, but you get what you get.

199

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
No, it is because even the officers here don’t agree with that.

They have remarked time and time again that they are glad that controls and accountability measures are in place.
[/quote]

Many of the gripes here are things that a department is not going to worry about, or situations for which an officer will be able to articulate his actions to the satisfaction of his department. The controls and accountability measures exist only so the department and government can say, “Look, we are doing our best. Please just don’t ask US to change.”

I have no problem with blaming police officers for whatever. I also have no problem with blaming teachers for the failures of government education, or any other government employee for the problems related to his/her job. We also have to realize that they are just symptoms of a disease, not the disease itself.

Before anyone proposes cameras/microphones on officers 24/7, understand that would most likely result in good officers being fired for talking crap about lesser officers/supervisors/etc. That’s what would be investigated, not Barney stopping Joe Crackhead as he walks through the ghetto and searching him without a reason or consent.

200

Well, I respect your integrity, Brett. And I’ll admit, I’ve been on the wrong side of the law a few times, but I’m willing to give the police a fairer shake than a lot of my Libertarian brothers. For the most part they are honest men and women doing a terribly difficult and dangerous job for which they receive far too little reward or thanks. However, even you will admit that almost every department has a few bad apples, and I think they give the whole community a bad name.

I see it as a species of bigotry. People see the abuses committed by a few individuals, and they sneer at everyone who is represented by those individuals, whether we’re talking about “the blacks” or “the Muslims” or “the Democrats” or “the police”.

Suffice to say, I doubt if most of the criticisms mentioned in this thread have anything to do with you, or NorCal, or WN76, or the vast majority of police officers on the job.