Pit Bull Video

Off Topic
223

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

Why is it you had nothing to say when anyone else brought up legislation, dealing with the courts or changing regulations? Why are laypeople more entitled to express their theory? Is it because I am a woman or because I don’t agree with you?

Shouldn’t you be at work at one of your three companies of which you are CEO?

You sure do pay a lot of attention to this secretary. Now stop playing at the hair pulling in the schoolyard, I don’t like you, you’re a tool and a pompous, boring, loser.

Ahhh. The gloves are coming off, I see. Wow. A swing and a miss.

That CEO comment really got your goad, did it not? Perhaps if you weren’t working so hard to be a pseudo intellectual it wouldn’t have cut quite so deep.

In short, Semencic is a nut. He has used his “expertise” in a largely uncontested field to make some money and get some publications.

Surely an academic such as yourself understands the status associated with such activities. He’s like the renegade intellectual. He claims a PhD, but last I heard, noone can figure out where the fuck he got it from.

Your next point of reference is an article titled “Scared of Pit Bulls, Well You Should Be!!!” or some such nonsense where the author alleges his young family was chased from their neighborhood by dogs at large. Holy shit. This guy is dripping with credibility. What a fantastic conversationalist this guy would be at a cocktail party. (Oh, btw this article is 8 years old.)

Interestingly, both authors conveniently combine British history of the breed with American.

Don’t try to dispute this point because it is fact and a typical tactic of alarmists. If you think the settlers brought these breeds over with the grand master plan of getting rich having dog fights out on the prarie, you’re a few bricks short.

Additionally, this is a very narrow minded approach to an animal with many redeming characteristics beyond it’s ability to tear the shit out of another dog when adequately trained and encouraged.

The last point of reference you use is from www.dogbitelaw.com. I had a little spare time and perused articles on this site.

To be perfectly honest I could kick the shit out of you just with some of the stuff I read on that site (reference the BSL overturn in Ohio for instance) but again, I have vowed not to spend appreciable time on your silly little alarmist ass.

Call me pompous. I fucking love it. I have been called arrogant and confrontational my whole life. So far I have not changed a thing. Probably too far down the road to deviate significantly, anyway.

You imply I am sideways with you b/c you are a woman. I am happily married for many, many years and have daughters. This isn’t the case. Truth be told, I am a tenacious defender of the women in my life. You would be fortunate to have me close to you.

I could spend the day researching and finding supporting evidence to prove just about any point I wanted to, regardless of how asinine.

Your whole point of approach is to prove there is a problem with the breeds.

Holy shit. You found some points of reference to bolster this. I am stunned.

You have basically monopolized a whole fucking post with your back and forth bullshit.

This may be entertaining in your world but in mine it is profoundly irritating.

That’s it.[/quote]

And you still spend your time responding.

Yes I can find facts to support my side, although I doubt you know what that is. I could find facts to support any side, as could anyone else.

Those of us who have discussed the subject seem to agree that depending on what you are looking for, that is what you can find.

SWR stated he posted this thread to discuss all sides of the issue.

But I do have to agree with you in that I have posted too many times on this thread. It just is an interesting topic. I think Nick H. had a good analogy, what if we did a hypothetical and applied it to race?

Digital’s post about this opening the door to future more restrictive legislation was interesting.

Good topic SWR. I will try to restrain myself and curb my excessive posting.

I had no doubt that I was in the majority when it came to people thinking you are a pompous idiot.

224

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Great video.

I’ve been a lover or the breed ever since I can remember. And because I one day hope to also be a proud owner, I have done quite a bit of research into the breed. The fact that there are still people out there spreading false information, like that first article that OctoberGirl posted, makes me sick.

If people really took the time to research the breed they’d realize that the a well bred, well trained, and well socialized APBT is probably the least likely of all dogs to attack a human.

Now, I realize that there are those irresponsible owners out there who don’t know the difference between aggression and “gameness” (a trait unique to the APBT), purposely train their dogs to attack, and don’t socialize their dogs to prevent fear aggression. But, the problem there is in the owners, not the breed itself.

My suggestion to OctoberGirl and anyone else who believes that these dogs are innately more dangerous, aggressive, prone to attacking humans than other breeds is to do some more research. There are tons of good sites on the web.

A good one is; www.apbtconformation.com
There is lots of good information on this site, but definitely check out the article “Scientific discussion of aggression in the apbt”. It can be found near the bottom of the page on the left side, under the “Headlines” section.

Down with BSL!

Don’t assume because I have issues with bad dogs and bad owners that I have not done research. Just because someone doesn’t share your viewpoint doesn’t mean they are coming from a place of ignorance.

Seems like we share the opinion that bad owners are largely responsible for the fear caused by these dogs.

As I stated before, I wish every owner were responsible and provided a good and loving home for these dogs, for any dog.

OctoberGirl,

It seems from your response that you have mistaken my post as some sort of personal attack on you. It was not. My disgust is with people like Katherine Houpt, the woman who you quoted in your first post on this thread, and the Economist’s editor.

These people are spreading at best misquoted and misconstrued information, and at worst flat out sensationalism, scare tactics, and lies.

Now you said that you have done research on the breed, and if that’s true then I applaud you. Most people just believe whatever the media tells them when it comes to this breed. But, why then would you post rubbish like:

“The dogs may be junkies, seeking pain so they can get the endorphin buzz they crave,” The Economist suggests."

I realize that the above is only a quote of what someone else wrote, but you still chose to quote it as if it were true.

I am glad to hear that you feel that irresponsible owners should be held responsible for dog attacks.

Good training,

Sentoguy

[/quote]

No I didn’t take it as an attack. I just was responding that I had been reading up on the ban, the breeds, dog laws, and about good and bad owners.

Sento, why wouldn’t I post something that I had found while reading articles?

I didn’t want my posts just to be anecdotal or "my friend had this dog that… " or… "I heard there was this dog that… "

I do think after reading the posts, the majority of us agree that the problem is the bad owners, the ones who exploit the dogs.

225

[quote]SBT wrote:
I think that says where I stand on this.

Thanks for posting this video.[/quote]

I’m with you man.

freakin people…

226

Speak of the devil… look what’s in the news this evening:

“Man Wins Fight With Vicious Pit Bull”
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Feb01/0,4670,PitBullAttack,00.html

227

if i’m not mistaken pitbulls are inherently more violent than other breeds… that alone should be a redlight in terms of banning them

229

That Fox News story is exactly why pits are persecuted, stupid owners. That dog had no business being outside unattended. At best the owner faces misdemeanor charges. That’s the problem, if the laws were tougher on owners being held responsible for their dogs’ actions then I think BSL would be moot. That owner should do jail time. Next time someone gets too confident about their dog being ok, they’ll think about that owner in jail and be vigilant.

My pits never go outside to their fenced pen without me with them the entire time. If I’m taking them anywhere, even to my truck, they are leashed. I never want to be seen as a bad owner.

Pits are strong, tough, athletic animals, that’s why we love them. They also have “game”. That’s why we have to be very, very responsible. If you cannot accept the responsiblity of having a “special” breed of dog then you shouldn’t get one. Too many people who don’t understand that committment get pits and the breed suffers.

230

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Great video.

I’ve been a lover or the breed ever since I can remember. And because I one day hope to also be a proud owner, I have done quite a bit of research into the breed. The fact that there are still people out there spreading false information, like that first article that OctoberGirl posted, makes me sick.

If people really took the time to research the breed they’d realize that the a well bred, well trained, and well socialized APBT is probably the least likely of all dogs to attack a human.

Now, I realize that there are those irresponsible owners out there who don’t know the difference between aggression and “gameness” (a trait unique to the APBT), purposely train their dogs to attack, and don’t socialize their dogs to prevent fear aggression. But, the problem there is in the owners, not the breed itself.

My suggestion to OctoberGirl and anyone else who believes that these dogs are innately more dangerous, aggressive, prone to attacking humans than other breeds is to do some more research. There are tons of good sites on the web.

A good one is; www.apbtconformation.com
There is lots of good information on this site, but definitely check out the article “Scientific discussion of aggression in the apbt”. It can be found near the bottom of the page on the left side, under the “Headlines” section.

Down with BSL!

Don’t assume because I have issues with bad dogs and bad owners that I have not done research. Just because someone doesn’t share your viewpoint doesn’t mean they are coming from a place of ignorance.

Seems like we share the opinion that bad owners are largely responsible for the fear caused by these dogs.

As I stated before, I wish every owner were responsible and provided a good and loving home for these dogs, for any dog.

OctoberGirl,

It seems from your response that you have mistaken my post as some sort of personal attack on you. It was not. My disgust is with people like Katherine Houpt, the woman who you quoted in your first post on this thread, and the Economist’s editor.

These people are spreading at best misquoted and misconstrued information, and at worst flat out sensationalism, scare tactics, and lies.

Now you said that you have done research on the breed, and if that’s true then I applaud you. Most people just believe whatever the media tells them when it comes to this breed. But, why then would you post rubbish like:

“The dogs may be junkies, seeking pain so they can get the endorphin buzz they crave,” The Economist suggests."

I realize that the above is only a quote of what someone else wrote, but you still chose to quote it as if it were true.

I am glad to hear that you feel that irresponsible owners should be held responsible for dog attacks.

Good training,

Sentoguy

No I didn’t take it as an attack. I just was responding that I had been reading up on the ban, the breeds, dog laws, and about good and bad owners.

Sento, why wouldn’t I post something that I had found while reading articles?

I didn’t want my posts just to be anecdotal or "my friend had this dog that… " or… "I heard there was this dog that… "

I do think after reading the posts, the majority of us agree that the problem is the bad owners, the ones who exploit the dogs.
[/quote]

Hi October,

Yes, it’s reassuring to know that the majority of us aren’t being blindly led by the media’s attempts to try to make the APBT out to be some sort of monster, and that the blame instead rests on irresponsible dog owners.

I understand why you would want to post information from other sources than simply anecdotal experience. It’s just that some of the sources that you quoted contained false information. Like I said, I wasn’t trying to suggest that you were a dog hating BSL advocate. I was simply disgusted that there are people out there writing material that misleads those who read it into believing that APBT’s are inherently more aggressive and dangerous than other breeds.

Let me give you an example of what I mean, and this isn’t necessarily slanderous, but it’s false information nonetheless. In your original post Carl Semencic states that the pitbull was created in England. This however is not true. Nor is an American Staffordshire terrier any different than an American Pit Bull Terrier. An English Staffordshire terrier is a seperate breed from an AmStaff or APBT. hence the reason for them being recognized as different breeds by the AKC/UKC.

When the dogs were originally brought to the states they were continued to be developed and did not become APBT’s under a later point. At this time they still resembled the original BullDogges as bull and bear baiting was still legal. It wasn’t until after those events became outlawed that they began to switch their focus to dog fighting. Only then did they breed the dogs with smaller terriers in order to diminish their size and make them more effective dog fighters.

Many years later when the AKC was invented APBT owners wanted to show their dogs and have the organization recognize the breed. However, the AKC refused to allow the term “Pit Bull” into any of it’s breed names. So, the owners came up with the name Staffordshire (the name of a province in England where many of the dogs had come from) Terrier. Then, years later when the English Staffordshire Terrier was added to the AKC’s list of dog breeds, the APBT owners added the prefix “American”, and the dogs became known as AmStaffs by the AKC.

The simple fact that this guy Semencic doesn’t even know the history of the breed speaks volumes about his knowledge of it. Yes, animal aggression was a desired trait for these dogs and has been passed down through the generations since the dogs were fighting bulls and bears all the way through when they were fighting other dogs. However, this is not the same thing as human aggression.

Historically speaking APBT’s are if not the least, at the very worst one of the least likely breeds to attack humans. “Why?” you ask. Well, because the handlers (who often times weren’t the owners) had to be able to physically pull the dogs apart, in the heat of battle. This often meant grabbing the dogs on injuries (unintentionally of course) and pulling two actively fighting dogs apart. If a dog bit the handler, or even showed them aggression, the dog was euthanized and it’s genes were not allowed to be passed on to the next generation. Now, how many dogs do you know of who you can physically grab them on an injury and the dog won’t even give you a warning nip to let you know “hey, that hurts”? Not many. But, the APBT is one of them.

This is the reason why the APBT became such a popular family pet. It is loyal, extremely non human aggressive (assuming you don’t get scumbags who don’t know the difference and intentionally breed a human aggressive dog), friendly, great with kids, athletic, intelligent, and has a never say die attitude. It wasn’t until recently that the breed has received so much bad press, and that all these urban myths have began springing up. You hear things like “Pit bulls have locking jaws” “Once a pit bull bites onto something there is no way other than killing it to get it to let go” “Pit bulls are innately aggressive” etc…etc…etc… all the time. But guess what? None of those things are true.

Ok, end rant. Hope that you and anyone else interested in the breed continues to do research (try reputable experts on the breed specifically, the site I posted was run by some such people), I know I will.

Good training,

Sentoguy

231

[quote]Tithonus81 wrote:
Speak of the devil… look what’s in the news this evening:

“Man Wins Fight With Vicious Pit Bull”
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Feb01/0,4670,PitBullAttack,00.html
[/quote]

Studies have shown that people who watch Fox News are 10% dumber than the average person.

232

There are people in this world I would like to ban or just off them if there is one thing I cant stand is cruelty to animals it makes me fucking sick.

233


A friend of mine told me about this story at work the other day when her boyfriend wanted to buy a pitbull and she was against it.

I thought it was a great story and she’s a wonderful dog.

This story is from the Ultimate American Pit Bull Terrier by Jacqueline O’Neil.

Weela was also featured in the October, 1996 Outside magazine as an example of the kind of dog one would like to have in a life-threatening situation.
Gary Watkins, eleven years old, was absorbed in chasing lizards when Weela, the family Pit Bull, plowed into him with a body slam that sent him sprawling. Gary’s mother, Lori, saw the whole incident and remembers being surprised at first, because Weela always played kindly with children. But her surprise quickly turned to horror when she saw a rattlesnake sink its fangs into Weela’s face. Somehow Weela had sensed the snake’s presence from across the yard and rushed to push Gary out of striking range.

Luckily for thirty people, twenty-nine dogs, thirteen horses and a cat, Weela recovered from the snake’s venom. Luckily, because that’s how many lives she saved a few years later. For her heroism, Weela was named Ken-L Ration’s Dog Hero of the Year in 1993. The press release read in part:

In January 1993, heavy rains caused a dam to break miles upstream on the Tijuana River, normally a narrow, three-foot wide river. Weela’s rescue efforts began at a ranch that belonged to a friend of her owners, Lori and Daniel Watkins. Weela and the Watkinses worked for six hours battling heavy rains, strong currents and floating debris to reach the ranch and rescue their friend’s twelve dogs.

From that experience, the Watkinses recognized Weela’s extraordinary ability to sense quicksand, dangerous drop-offs and mud bogs. “She was constantly willing to put herself in dangerous situations,” says Lori Watkins. “She always took the lead except to circle back if someone needed help.”

Periodically, over a month’s time, sixty-five pound Weela crossed the flooded river to bring food to seventeen dogs and puppies and one cat, all stranded on an island. Each trip she pulled thirty to fifty pounds of dog food that had been loaded into a harnessed backpack. The animals were finally evacuated on Valentine’s Day.
On another occasion, Weela led a rescue team to thirteen horses stranded on a large manure pile completely surrounded by floodwaters. The rescue team successfully brought the horses to safe ground.

Finally, during one of Weela’s trips back from delivering food to stranded animals, she came upon a group of thirty people who were attempting to cross the floodwaters. Weela, by barking and running back and forth, refused to allow them to cross at that point where the waters ran deep and fast. She then led the group to a shallower crossing upstream, where they safely crossed to the other side.

Strong, gentle intelligent and brave, Weela,CGC,TT, is the ultimate American Pit Bull terrier, epitomizing the best that the breed has to offer. But her story also highlights an important yet often misunderstood fact about the breed. The Pit Bull is a dog that loves to please its owner and tries to become whatever kind of dog its owner desires. Weela has had two owners.
The first owner dumped her in an alley to die when she was less than four weeks old. Her present owner, Lori Watkins, found five starving Pit Bull puppies whimpering in an alley took them home and raised them. Later, the Watkins family placed four of the puppies in loving homes and kept the little female they named Weela.

They believed Weela was special, and she proved them right. Most Pit Bull puppies grow up to become a reflection of both their owners’ personality and the care and training they receive. One can only imagine what a different dog Weela would have become if her original owner had raised her, and she had done her best to please him.