[quote]Liquid447 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
sjoconn wrote:
You might be surprised. When I worked in the MI community I knew a guy that was convicted of assault and still got his Top Secret clearance.
Really? I got in a couple bar fights and lost my security clearance.
agreed. it’s hard enough keeping our secret security clearance, much less top secret.
he had an assault charge on his record BEFORE entering the service and was cleared? i find that hard to believe.[/quote]
This was over 13 years ago when I first received my TS, so I may be foggy on the details. I believe it came from he was arrested for assault, but not convicted.
I always thought the hardest part of getting/keeping my TS was the periodic update. How can you be having trouble keeping Secret if a TS is so easy to maintain?
[quote]beebuddy wrote:
What I’m wondering is if the rumors are true that if you have a foreign wife you can’t get clearance. I know that the feds have different relationships with each country, so specifically what about Japan?[/quote]
I know many people with foreign wives and girlfriends who have clearances. I also know foreign expats in our military that have clearances.
A clearance doesnt guarantee access to information. Information is compartmentalized. Just because you have a Top Secret clearance doesnt mean you can walk into an office and start reading documents.
[quote]sjoconn wrote:
A clearance doesnt guarantee access to information. Information is compartmentalized. Just because you have a Top Secret clearance doesnt mean you can walk into an office and start reading documents.[/quote]
Exactly. I had a secret clearance, but I never even came across a situation where it was needed or where I had access to privileged information. Then again, I didn’t have my clearance very long.
This was over 13 years ago when I first received my TS, so I may be foggy on the details. I believe it came from he was arrested for assault, but not convicted.
I always thought the hardest part of getting/keeping my TS was the periodic update. How can you be having trouble keeping Secret if a TS is so easy to maintain?
Sean
[/quote]
Yes that’s correct at least when I was in. They reviewed each individual and made allowances for some on a case by case basis. If you were granted a secret clearance but didn’t really use it or need it for your job they could easily take it away for something like a bar fight. For intel. staff you had to undergo a polygraph every year to determine if you were selling secrets to the Russkies and they could snatch your clearance if you got into financial trouble as that could put you at risk for selling secrets to the Russkies. Also, sjoconn is correct even with a TS you only had access to what you needed for your job and their were a ton of TS classifications one could have.
[quote]beebuddy wrote:
What I’m wondering is if the rumors are true that if you have a foreign wife you can’t get clearance. I know that the feds have different relationships with each country, so specifically what about Japan?[/quote]
From what I know they generally do the “Three strike system” where each thing they find on you that’s on their list is a strike. Three strikes and you don’t get your clearance.
Being born in a different country is along the lines of things they that can count as strikes.
[quote]sjoconn wrote:
Liquid447 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
sjoconn wrote:
You might be surprised. When I worked in the MI community I knew a guy that was convicted of assault and still got his Top Secret clearance.
Really? I got in a couple bar fights and lost my security clearance.
agreed. it’s hard enough keeping our secret security clearance, much less top secret.
he had an assault charge on his record BEFORE entering the service and was cleared? i find that hard to believe.
This was over 13 years ago when I first received my TS, so I may be foggy on the details. I believe it came from he was arrested for assault, but not convicted.
I always thought the hardest part of getting/keeping my TS was the periodic update. How can you be having trouble keeping Secret if a TS is so easy to maintain?
Sean
[/quote]
well, take into account where i’m coming from. i commissioned out of a military junior college, so we’re getting the opportunity for butter bars during the first two years of our ‘college life’. i’ve seen a handful of guys lose it on account of arrests, dui, financial issues. maybe b/c our corps of cadets was so small, each guy who lost his commission due to failure to complete the security clearance seemed like a big deal.
well, take into account where i’m coming from. i commissioned out of a military junior college, so we’re getting the opportunity for butter bars during the first two years of our ‘college life’. i’ve seen a handful of guys lose it on account of arrests, dui, financial issues. maybe b/c our corps of cadets was so small, each guy who lost his commission due to failure to complete the security clearance seemed like a big deal.
[/quote]
I guess I can see it from this angle. Most of the guys I have ever seen lose a clearance was due to it not being needed any more or failure to get the periodic update turned in on time.
[quote]Contrl wrote:
sjoconn wrote:
Just because you have a Top Secret clearance doesnt mean you can walk into an office and start reading documents.
Aww, darn.
There goes my trip to Langley.[/quote]
If they have anything like what I was having to read and generate then I saved you from a life-time of boredom.
[quote]JokerFMJ wrote:
From what I know they generally do the “Three strike system” where each thing they find on you that’s on their list is a strike. Three strikes and you don’t get your clearance.
Being born in a different country is along the lines of things they that can count as strikes.[/quote]
This could be true. I never really knew how the determination was made. But I do have a friend who is a Canadian expat in our army, engaged to a Thai national, who has a DUI, and is not losing his clearance. But then its only a Secret.
[quote]Liquid447 wrote:
sjoconn wrote:
Liquid447 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
sjoconn wrote:
You might be surprised. When I worked in the MI community I knew a guy that was convicted of assault and still got his Top Secret clearance.
Really? I got in a couple bar fights and lost my security clearance.
agreed. it’s hard enough keeping our secret security clearance, much less top secret.
he had an assault charge on his record BEFORE entering the service and was cleared? i find that hard to believe.
This was over 13 years ago when I first received my TS, so I may be foggy on the details. I believe it came from he was arrested for assault, but not convicted.
I always thought the hardest part of getting/keeping my TS was the periodic update. How can you be having trouble keeping Secret if a TS is so easy to maintain?
Sean
well, take into account where i’m coming from. i commissioned out of a military junior college, so we’re getting the opportunity for butter bars during the first two years of our ‘college life’. i’ve seen a handful of guys lose it on account of arrests, dui, financial issues. maybe b/c our corps of cadets was so small, each guy who lost his commission due to failure to complete the security clearance seemed like a big deal.
[/quote]
I am not sure I understand. Did they lose it while they were still in school or when they were fulltime military? I really don’t understand where these military schools end and the military begins. You kind of have a foot in each world? Seems to me if someone has a clearance and has a history of doing good work they would stand a better chance of keeping it than a newbie in case of a fuckup.
in my command 85 percent of us have clearence and maybe 5 percent TS clearence. and getting it to come is easy all u do is lie to your recruiter and your find. say u never due drugs dont drink under age, and all that other bs and your fine.
and the college thing for officers is you still owned by the navy but your job is going to school and they pay for the college and give you something like E5 or 01 pay while your there. you fail your classes or kicked out they own you for a very long time for w/e they want.
I am not sure I understand. Did they lose it while they were still in school or when they were fulltime military? I really don’t understand where these military schools end and the military begins. You kind of have a foot in each world? Seems to me if someone has a clearance and has a history of doing good work they would stand a better chance of keeping it than a newbie in case of a fuckup.[/quote]
the way it worked for me is i attended a military school for two years, got my AS degree, commissioned into the Army National Guard.
Now i’m finishing up my four year degree at the university of alabama, and drill once a month with my unit as a 2LT. Upon my completion of my 4 year degree, i will continue to bolc 2 and 3, as well as go active if i wish.
the problem was cadets getting in troulbe the two years at military school. they either coudnl’t get their clearance to process, or they lost it b4 they commissioned.
[quote]hazarddude334 wrote:
in my command 85 percent of us have clearence and maybe 5 percent TS clearence. and getting it to come is easy all u do is lie to your recruiter and your find. say u never due drugs dont drink under age, and all that other bs and your fine.
and the college thing for officers is you still owned by the navy but your job is going to school and they pay for the college and give you something like E5 or 01 pay while your there. you fail your classes or kicked out they own you for a very long time for w/e they want.[/quote]
Or you can just come clean with all of this stuff and try not to lie in the case you ever have to have a polygraph where the contradictions would be more of concern to them than the actual events.
My co-worker has a “high” clearance and he admitted everything from DUI, to drugs to drinking underage. As long as you aren’t STILL doing it they usually are fine with. You are much better off NOT lying.
I was USN and Army Guard for a total of 9 years. No super duper war stories in my time to tell, but service is huge to me.
I now have input on hiring boards for candidates for law enforcement within DHS, and I always look for veterans first. I usually get a squared away individual who doesn’t need babysitting, or lacks motivation once his/her boots hit the blacktop.
To the OP, best of luck to you in whichever fine branch of the military you choose. Just don’t tarnish the honor of those who went before you, and those that stand with you.
The following is general sterotypes and not every job, nor everyone’s experience is the same:
Air Force: Pilots are few and far between. Most personnel are in a support role or non-front line role, i.e. logistics, intel, maintenance, etc.
Army: Special Forces (Green Berets, Rangers, etc.) are not the majority. Majority are front line security personnel trained to control an environment with many on their side. Support forces are also important.[/quote]
Actually, most of the Army is Combat Service Support (i.e. logistics, finance, etc) and Combat Support (Engineers, Medics, MPs). To say support forces are important is greatly underestimating their importance. Just ask Napolean how important is troop support. Combat units are further delineated by their roles as deemed by DOD. Certain divisions are mainly used as “assault” divisions (82nd, 101st, 3rd Armor, 10th Mtn, etc) leading invasions, hardest missions, etc, while others are more for the controlling, longer-term occupation type deployments.
I totally agree. And this is where recruits should pay particular attention to those of us who have served - the recruiter will tell you anything you want to hear. If you go in and say “I want to be a SEAL” they will say, “No problem. Once you pass through basic, you can go to BUDS and become a SEAL.” The truth is, you don’t choose your path, the DOD chooses your path based on your performance and its needs. Very few people are cut out for the SEALs, Special Forces, etc. It’s not as simple as being in top physical condition. There is a certain psychological profile that they look for that is more important than your physical ability.
[quote]Backlash79 wrote:
Or you can just come clean with all of this stuff and try not to lie in the case you ever have to have a polygraph where the contradictions would be more of concern to them than the actual events.
My co-worker has a “high” clearance and he admitted everything from DUI, to drugs to drinking underage. As long as you aren’t STILL doing it they usually are fine with. You are much better off NOT lying. [/quote]
Agreed. I had a guarantee for IS A school after bootcamp back in 89 for the Nav. I had to give contact info for five people that knew me but weren’t relatives. During the time I was in boot all of the people were contacted by NIS and interviewed as well as my HS records being reviewed. During boot I also met with a NIS agent who grilled me like gestapo agent and I was given a polygraph. It wasn’t as easy getting a clearance back then as just lying about everything.
[quote]Dedicated wrote:
Backlash79 wrote:
Or you can just come clean with all of this stuff and try not to lie in the case you ever have to have a polygraph where the contradictions would be more of concern to them than the actual events.
My co-worker has a “high” clearance and he admitted everything from DUI, to drugs to drinking underage. As long as you aren’t STILL doing it they usually are fine with. You are much better off NOT lying.
Agreed. I had a guarantee for IS A school after bootcamp back in 89 for the Nav. I had to give contact info for five people that knew me but weren’t relatives. During the time I was in boot all of the people were contacted by NIS and interviewed as well as my HS records being reviewed. During boot I also met with a NIS agent who grilled me like gestapo agent and I was given a polygraph. It wasn’t as easy getting a clearance back then as just lying about everything.
D[/quote]
Yup. For my initial investigation they contacted the people on my list and did not interview them, but ask them for additional names to interview. You never know what they will ask, or who. Its best just to admit everything up front and then not sweat it.
i now in the navy if u get a dui while your actually have your clearence you will prolly lose it and if you have top secret kiss it good by or if you have to much debt its gone to. but if you had prior problems but straigten them out you might stand a chance of getting it.