Philadelphia Open Carry

Off Topic
41

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]Dijon wrote:
Story:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stossel/blog/2011/05/16/philly-police-harass-threaten-shoot-man-legally-carrying-gun

Audio:

While I can understand setting up the police to expose corruption, this does not sound like the cop was being unreasonable. I don’t think this will help in exposing anything. [/quote]

He aimed his weapon at a law abiding citizen. How is that reasonable?[/quote]

How did he know he was a law abiding citizen? Should he just assume? If he was pulling a gun on some guy walking down the street who was not carrying a weapon, then yeah that could be seen as unreasonable, but the guy was carrying a gun. If you wouldn’t walk around with your gun exposed why would a cop not think a guy who does is trouble or crazy?
[/quote]

He should assume that the guy is a law abiding citizen because its not against the law to carry openly. I have no problem with the officer confirming his legality, its the delivery that I have a problem with as should we all. This could easily BE YOU.

Many of you may not fit the profile but on a Saturday Afternoon in my jeans and hoody, I’m always the guy that just robbed that house down the road. And I conceal carry. Not a good outcome if both the officer and I are having bad days???[/quote]

TBG already answered the question about whether the cop was breaking the law in checking him and it doesn’t sound like the cop was. It is legal in Canada for a cop stop people and ask regular citizens questions too. Our gun laws are different, I can’t even legally carry pepper spray, so there are less guns being pulled by curious cops. I don’t know how else you would treat a guy walking around like a gunslinger other than as dangerous. Are there other places in the US where it is legal and normal for a person to walk down the street open carrying?

42

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

So how are cops supposed to deal with armed people they are suspicious of when the officer is alone? I don’t live in a place where we can open carry or conceal carry(if that’s a thing), and really have no idea what the law is as far as this is concerned. It seems like a dangerous situation for a cop to approach an armed person.
[/quote]

Like the law abiding citizens with clean records that they are?

How am I supposed to deal with a guy with a badge a gun and a power trip when I’m alone?[/quote]

Um okay, thanks for not answering my question.lol[/quote]

I did answer it.

The question is more, why are they suspicious. If they have no indication any sort of crime has been committed, they can’t do shit (or shouldn’t be able to).[/quote]

Well here’s the part that doesn’t translate from Philadelphia to Tennessee. It IS SUSPICIOUS for someone to be casually walking about that area, in Philadelphia (actually anywhere within the City), with an open holstered gun. And the only person on the power trip was the guy trying to bait the cop. We can criticize the cop for not knowing the law. Fair enough. We can criticize his language. I’m not in the habit of defending LEO. But what you can’t criticize is that the cop was genuinely concerned for his safety as evidenced by his calling back-up. Trust me, if he wasn’t concerned, he’d have commenced whipping his ass right after he called for back-up.

Now let me answer your rhetorical question. How do you deal with a cop on a power trip when you’re alone? You shut the fuck up and omply and exercise your legal rights and remedies thereafter. Does this mean I support abuse of power? Fuck no. But it’s reality. You do not have the right to resist even an illegal or unlawful arrest. Don’t believe me? Look it up. [/quote]

Even if the violation of your rights is a physical beating and threat of death? You don’t think that it ever right to physically resist the police ever?

You have the right to physically resist any person doing something illegal to you. Why would that change if the person attempting to violate your rights has a badge?

Is it suspicious to be a black guy in a white neighborhood? Cops simply do not have that right. They are there to uphold the law, they aren’t the law.

If a cop asked you to pull down your pants and bend over, you’d let him butt rape you, then pursue recourse later?

Squeal like a pig for me.

43

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
I don’t know how else you would treat a guy walking around like a gunslinger other than as dangerous. Are there other places in the US where it is legal and normal for a person to walk down the street open carrying?

[/quote]

You mean like cops?

And yes, I know 4 or 5 that do.

I’m getting my carry permit so I can carry on fire calls.

44

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
I don’t know how else you would treat a guy walking around like a gunslinger other than as dangerous. Are there other places in the US where it is legal and normal for a person to walk down the street open carrying?

[/quote]

You mean like cops?

And yes, I know 4 or 5 that do.

I’m getting my carry permit so I can carry on fire calls.[/quote]

4 or 5 places or people?

Fire calls, like fire fighting?

45

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
I don’t know how else you would treat a guy walking around like a gunslinger other than as dangerous. Are there other places in the US where it is legal and normal for a person to walk down the street open carrying?

[/quote]

You mean like cops?

And yes, I know 4 or 5 that do.

I’m getting my carry permit so I can carry on fire calls.[/quote]

4 or 5 places or people?

Fire calls, like fire fighting?

[/quote]

People and yes.

46

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
I don’t know how else you would treat a guy walking around like a gunslinger other than as dangerous. Are there other places in the US where it is legal and normal for a person to walk down the street open carrying?

[/quote]

You mean like cops?

And yes, I know 4 or 5 that do.

I’m getting my carry permit so I can carry on fire calls.[/quote]

4 or 5 places or people?

Fire calls, like fire fighting?

[/quote]

People and yes.[/quote]

My sister is a paramedic and I don’t think she is allowed to carry anything.
Do you encounter reasons for carrying a gun while fire fighting, my sister sometimes has to deal with criminals and junkies but her biggest danger is flying bodily fluids(yuck).

47

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
I don’t know how else you would treat a guy walking around like a gunslinger other than as dangerous. Are there other places in the US where it is legal and normal for a person to walk down the street open carrying?

[/quote]

You mean like cops?

And yes, I know 4 or 5 that do.

I’m getting my carry permit so I can carry on fire calls.[/quote]

4 or 5 places or people?

Fire calls, like fire fighting?

[/quote]

People and yes.[/quote]

My sister is a paramedic and I don’t think she is allowed to carry anything.
Do you encounter reasons for carrying a gun while fire fighting, my sister sometimes has to deal with criminals and junkies but her biggest danger is flying bodily fluids(yuck).
[/quote]

You just never know. We are the first responders so we get calls for pretty much everything. 2 of the guys always carry, most of the time openly, though one is a cop and the other is an ex-cop.

48

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
I don’t know how else you would treat a guy walking around like a gunslinger other than as dangerous. Are there other places in the US where it is legal and normal for a person to walk down the street open carrying?

[/quote]

You mean like cops?

And yes, I know 4 or 5 that do.

I’m getting my carry permit so I can carry on fire calls.[/quote]

4 or 5 places or people?

Fire calls, like fire fighting?

[/quote]

In Texas (Any Texans correct me if I’m wrong) you can legally carry a rifle in plain view. Now I own several black sporting rifles that if I walked down the street with, there would be major concern. Right or wrong, if I did it, there would be trouble. I’m smart enough to expect said trouble and deal with it. This guy wasn’t. Regardless, either situation aint against the law. Neither is the response that we are both sure to recieve. What’s wrong is the delivery of that response. In this case the officer was out of line. The citizen could have simply complied but he chose not to be butt raped by the pig. Some of us just have higher tolerences and will only choose to fight against bigger dicks. This guy obviously already had his fill.

49

This is a perfect example of the fact that if the right is not exercised it’s lost - just because it isn’t “common” for someone to open carry in Philly, doesn’t mean it’s illegal.
The dude might be baiting the cops, he might be retarded taking a risk trying to prove a point, etc.
The thing is though, if he is not doing anything illegal cops have no business harassing him.
Maybe a skinny ass cop will feel threatened if Brian Shaw is passing by. So what?

50

Bodyguard, you really have no idea what you’re talking about here. By your logic, it’s a girl fault for being raped because she dressed like a slut.

Just because something isn’t the norm doesn’t mean it isn’t suspicious, had he noticed the cop, and immediately started walking away in a hurry or running, then it’s suspicious. Now, had the officer calmly asked to see his LTCF and unsnapped his holster with his hand on the gun and the man didn’t comply, drawing it would be a smart thing to do. But that isn’t what happened, he caught the guy off guard, and already had the weapon leveled at him.

Just because the city is a shithole doesn’t give officers the right to supersede the law, if they are that afraid of confrontation and losing their life, they shouldn’t be a cop, or shouldn’t be in philly. Hell, from your point of view, the cops would be “right” if they patted down everyone they ran across to check for a firearm, then detain them until they showed their LTCF.

51

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
I don’t know how else you would treat a guy walking around like a gunslinger other than as dangerous. Are there other places in the US where it is legal and normal for a person to walk down the street open carrying?

[/quote]

You mean like cops?

And yes, I know 4 or 5 that do.

I’m getting my carry permit so I can carry on fire calls.[/quote]

4 or 5 places or people?

Fire calls, like fire fighting?

[/quote]

People and yes.[/quote]

Again, Tennessee is not Philly.

52

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
I don’t know how else you would treat a guy walking around like a gunslinger other than as dangerous. Are there other places in the US where it is legal and normal for a person to walk down the street open carrying?

[/quote]

You mean like cops?

And yes, I know 4 or 5 that do.

I’m getting my carry permit so I can carry on fire calls.[/quote]

4 or 5 places or people?

Fire calls, like fire fighting?

[/quote]

People and yes.[/quote]

Again, Tennessee is not Philly.[/quote]

But a right is a right.

53

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
I don’t know how else you would treat a guy walking around like a gunslinger other than as dangerous. Are there other places in the US where it is legal and normal for a person to walk down the street open carrying?

[/quote]

You mean like cops?

And yes, I know 4 or 5 that do.

I’m getting my carry permit so I can carry on fire calls.[/quote]

4 or 5 places or people?

Fire calls, like fire fighting?

[/quote]

People and yes.[/quote]

Again, Tennessee is not Philly.[/quote]

But a right is a right.[/quote]

True. But, that’s not really the point.

The fact that both people and cops are shot a little frequently, the cops are going to be a little more cautious with someone who is carrying. Not to mention, openly.

Niether the cops or the guy carrying were 100% right in this case.

54

[quote]imhungry wrote:

The fact that both people and cops are shot a little frequently, the cops are going to be a little more cautious with someone who is carrying. Not to mention, openly.

[/quote]

Are cops the only people shot in Philly?

Isn’t the fact that its a violent area even more of a justification for the guy to have the right to carry?

Why do only cops get to be openly armed? They are both in the same apparently violent city, does the cop have more right to defend himself than a non-cop? If so, why?

55

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
I don’t know how else you would treat a guy walking around like a gunslinger other than as dangerous. Are there other places in the US where it is legal and normal for a person to walk down the street open carrying?

[/quote]

You mean like cops?

And yes, I know 4 or 5 that do.

I’m getting my carry permit so I can carry on fire calls.[/quote]

4 or 5 places or people?

Fire calls, like fire fighting?

[/quote]

People and yes.[/quote]

Again, Tennessee is not Philly.[/quote]

But a right is a right.[/quote]

True. But, that’s not really the point.

The fact that both people and cops are shot a little frequently, the cops are going to be a little more cautious with someone who is carrying. Not to mention, openly.

Niether the cops or the guy carrying were 100% right in this case.

[/quote]

But, because they ARE cops (professionals), they should be held to a higher standard.

56

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

The fact that both people and cops are shot a little frequently, the cops are going to be a little more cautious with someone who is carrying. Not to mention, openly.

[/quote]

Are cops the only people shot in Philly?

Isn’t the fact that its a violent area even more of a justification for the guy to have the right to carry?

Why do only cops get to be openly armed? They are both in the same apparently violent city, does the cop have more right to defend himself than a non-cop? If so, why?[/quote]

No, and that’s not what I said.

Yes, but, again, cops aren’t going to take any chances with anyone who is carrying, for reasons already stated.

The last part of your post has nothing to do with what I said.

This has a little bit of info on Philly’s crime rate.

http://www.phillycrime.org/category/crime-statistics/

57

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
I don’t know how else you would treat a guy walking around like a gunslinger other than as dangerous. Are there other places in the US where it is legal and normal for a person to walk down the street open carrying?

[/quote]

You mean like cops?

And yes, I know 4 or 5 that do.

I’m getting my carry permit so I can carry on fire calls.[/quote]

id check the laws. its illegal to carry while on the job as a FF in most of the country. Volunteer or paid. Possibly the cop can pull it off but that still seems sketchy to me. just saying you should CYA and get some written permission on this one.

edit- also i know you stated bc youre first on scene you want to be safe. that is why you are not held liable for anything that happens to someone if you are in imminent danger/fear for you life and are TRAINED to not enter an unsafe scene until police are there. they can get there pretty quick. naturally you want to help, but your safety is first, then your team, then the public, then your patient, if you go down someone will be left behind and everyone knows its not gonna be you.

58

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
I don’t know how else you would treat a guy walking around like a gunslinger other than as dangerous. Are there other places in the US where it is legal and normal for a person to walk down the street open carrying?

[/quote]

You mean like cops?

And yes, I know 4 or 5 that do.

I’m getting my carry permit so I can carry on fire calls.[/quote]

4 or 5 places or people?

Fire calls, like fire fighting?

[/quote]

People and yes.[/quote]

Again, Tennessee is not Philly.[/quote]

But a right is a right.[/quote]

True. But, that’s not really the point.

The fact that both people and cops are shot a little frequently, the cops are going to be a little more cautious with someone who is carrying. Not to mention, openly.

Niether the cops or the guy carrying were 100% right in this case.

[/quote]

But, because they ARE cops (professionals), they should be held to a higher standard.[/quote]

Of couse they should be held at a higher standard.

Did I say the the cops were perfectly justified in what they did? No.

The dude was a retard, also. He was asking for trouble.

59

[quote]fighting_fires wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
I don’t know how else you would treat a guy walking around like a gunslinger other than as dangerous. Are there other places in the US where it is legal and normal for a person to walk down the street open carrying?

[/quote]

You mean like cops?

And yes, I know 4 or 5 that do.

I’m getting my carry permit so I can carry on fire calls.[/quote]

id check the laws. its illegal to carry while on the job as a FF in most of the country. Volunteer or paid. Possibly the cop can pull it off but that still seems sketchy to me. just saying you should CYA and get some written permission on this one.
[/quote]

I know the ex cop does it and the other guy who is a cop does it off duty.

60

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

The fact that both people and cops are shot a little frequently, the cops are going to be a little more cautious with someone who is carrying. Not to mention, openly.

[/quote]

Are cops the only people shot in Philly?

Isn’t the fact that its a violent area even more of a justification for the guy to have the right to carry?

Why do only cops get to be openly armed? They are both in the same apparently violent city, does the cop have more right to defend himself than a non-cop? If so, why?[/quote]

No, and that’s not what I said.

Yes, but, again, cops aren’t going to take any chances with anyone who is carrying, for reasons already stated.

The last part of your post has nothing to do with what I said.

This has a little bit of info on Philly’s crime rate.

http://www.phillycrime.org/category/crime-statistics/[/quote]

So, if there is an area with a lot of speeding, cops can start pulling over all the sports cars even when they are obeying the speed limit?

And what I posted has everything to do with what you were talking about. I’m saying that carrying is a right. If a gun can be arbitrarily taken and having it can get you detained, than it isn’t, by definition, a right. Either it is a right, and the officer violated that right and is in the wrong, or it isn’t a right at all. The 2 are mutually exclusive.