Pervasive Anti-Americanism

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]juninho wrote:
why estrogen filled? Because his view is contrary to your own? Or because it doesn’t involve blindly extolling the virtues of your country and disregarding any negative comments made about it, regardless of their validity?[/quote]

Please see my spoiled child reference…

No - you cna hate us all you want. The point is - it doesn’t matter. And asking us to sit and think about why other countries don’t like us just screams “pussy”. Hence the estrgen reference.

No - a real “T-man” doesn’t give a shit what those around think of him. If said “T-man” is one of conviction - then all of the pussies in the world won’t deter him from his goal. To beat the shit out of them - as you put it - is not worth the effort.

Telling us what to do - and acting like you have a fucking clue is irritating to say the least. It is especially so when we are told to examine our inner-selves to see why we are so bad.

Might want to check again - sparky. France is keenly in the sights of an Al Qaida splinter faction.

And wasn’t France the sight of massive islamic-led riots just a few months ago?

122

[quote]rainjack wrote:
juninho wrote:
why estrogen filled? Because his view is contrary to your own? Or because it doesn’t involve blindly extolling the virtues of your country and disregarding any negative comments made about it, regardless of their validity?

Please see my spoiled child reference…

No - you cna hate us all you want. The point is - it doesn’t matter. And asking us to sit and think about why other countries don’t like us just screams “pussy”. Hence the estrgen reference.

I forgot, a real ‘T-man’ doesn’t waste his time trying to empathise with those who disagree with him. He just beats the shit out of them and carries on his way. Yeeeee haaaaw.

No - a real “T-man” doesn’t give a shit what those around think of him. If said “T-man” is one of conviction - then all of the pussies in the world won’t deter him from his goal. To beat the shit out of them - as you put it - is not worth the effort.

Telling us what to do - and acting like you have a fucking clue is irritating to say the least. It is especially so when we are told to examine our inner-selves to see why we are so bad.

As for needing your protection, as far as I know terrorism is most rife in those countries, (like ours - the UK) that also chose to dive headfirst into the current ‘war on terror’. Don’t hear of many suicide bombers in Scandinavia or France.

Might want to check again - sparky. France is keenly in the sights of an Al Qaida splinter faction.

And wasn’t France the sight of massive islamic-led riots just a few months ago?

[/quote]

OK, firstly, I don’t get the spoilt child reference, it just doesn’t fit with anything. It’s another ‘tough-talking’ type sound-bite that often gets trundled out on this forum, masquarading as political comment. It means fuck all and contains zero insight into anything, but it will doubtless whip a certain type of person up into a great patriotic fervour…

Secondly, I don’t get the “telling us what to do”, reference either. Where do I do this?

If you equate any kind of empathy or inward-examination with being a ‘pussy’, then you are an emotionally stunted individual at best.

And to get this straight - I do not hate your country. If you weren’t so quick to jump on the defensive you will see that my post is hardly vitriolic.

ps I concede France was a shit example, although I think their problems probably stem from their own domestic quarrels rather than owt else. Still I don’t imagine they will be asking for ‘your’ (do you serve in the military by the way?) protection any time soon.

123

[quote]juninho wrote:
OK, firstly, I don’t get the spoilt child reference, it just doesn’t fit with anything. It’s another ‘tough-talking’ type sound-bite that often gets trundled out on this forum, masquarading as political comment. It means fuck all and contains zero insight into anything, but it will doubtless whip a certain type of person up into a great patriotic fervour…[/quote]

It means that Europe - as a whole - are whiny spoiled little brats. Whether onr not is insightful - or meets any of your standards as a valid political commentary means fuck all to me.

You don’t. Read DanRat’s post that I respnded to. He does - and that is what I was referring to.

I don’t. Having others tell you to do it is being the pussy. Read what I wrote - I specifically wrote that if we are doig something with conviction - that should imply that all examinations wrt empathy have been made. No need to have folks in the peanut gallery telling us we need to do it better.

Welcome to the Political forum. Vitriole is handed out by the barrel here. I am not defensive - I am just tired of the Euros telling us how to act.

124

[quote]rainjack wrote:
juninho wrote:
OK, firstly, I don’t get the spoilt child reference, it just doesn’t fit with anything. It’s another ‘tough-talking’ type sound-bite that often gets trundled out on this forum, masquarading as political comment. It means fuck all and contains zero insight into anything, but it will doubtless whip a certain type of person up into a great patriotic fervour…

It means that Europe - as a whole - are whiny spoiled little brats. Whether onr not is insightful - or meets any of your standards as a valid political commentary means fuck all to me. [/quote]

nope, still not getting it. What you’ve done there is merely repeat your original assertion. It doesn’t make it any more or less true, and certainly no more clear. Perhaps try shouting it next time, the penny may then drop with me…

Failing that some examples of ‘whinyness’, or acting spoilt could be good. And referring to tired xenophobic stereotypes about the French wont cut it by the way…

125

[quote]juninho wrote:
nope, still not getting it. What you’ve done there is merely repeat your original assertion. It doesn’t make it any more or less true, and certainly no more clear. Perhaps try shouting it next time, the penny may then drop with me…[/quote]

My job isn’t to babysit you to make sure you get it. If you are having trouble - maybe find another hobby. Or try reading back in the archives if you are having trouble understanding the Euro-centric superiority complex that is pervasive among most of the non-american posters down here.

[quote]Failing that some examples of ‘whinyness’, or acting spoilt could be good. And referring to tired xenophobic stereotypes about the French wont cut it by the way…
[/quote]

Your feigned confusion notwithstanding - you know what I am talking about. Read most any quote from Chirac regarding the United States during the run up to the war.

If I am proud of my country and unapologetic for the stand we are taking - I am xenophobic?

What stereo-type did I refer to? Are you talking about there propensity for throwing in the towel when faced with a challenge.

126

I don’t think the anti American position in Europe is as deep rooted as you may think…by the very fact that this is a,for lack of a better phrase,hard core training site,it will attract a lot of younger guys that haven’t got the broader viewpoint and historical perspective that we middle aged guys have.Europe in the post world war 2 and cold war eras,slept under a blanket of protection provided by you guys.There was no doubt in any Europeans mind at that time,that if there had been an act of aggression,wether conventional or nuclear,that the US would have reacted immediately and comprehensively in our defense.
Don’t for a second think that it has been forgotten.
We live in very strange and fragmented times,but I believe that Europe and the US still have far more that unites them,and that this will always be the case.
It’s the nature of this relationship that allows for the disagreements in viewpoint and the current level of debate.
I also think that it’s because of the relatively minor (and I use the word with reservation,to try make a point,not to belittle the war or the opposition to it)nature of the differences, that debate has been so heated.The current situation is not a deep schism in viewpoint between the two camps,it’s the leading nations of the world hammering out concensus amongst themselves as to how the challenges of a new and very different geopolitical situation is to be faced,managed and resolved.
A bit like having a difference of opinion and heated argument with your wife about something peripheral like plans for the evening…

I’m not really sure If I have managed to get my point over effectively here…it’s late.
So I hope no one gets offended,wasn’t my intention!

127

[quote]rainjack wrote:
juninho wrote:

What stereo-type did I refer to? Are you talking about there propensity for throwing in the towel when faced with a challenge.
[/quote]

‘Their’ you go… That’s exactly the one I was meaning. That stereotype however is as valid as the one of Texans being overweight gun-slinging inbreds…

128

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
I don’t think the anti American position in Europe is as deep rooted as you may think…by the very fact that this is a,for lack of a better phrase,hard core training site,it will attract a lot of younger guys that haven’t got the broader viewpoint and historical perspective that we middle aged guys have.Europe in the post world war 2 and cold war eras,slept under a blanket of protection provided by you guys.There was no doubt in any Europeans mind at that time,that if there had been an act of aggression,wether conventional or nuclear,that the US would have reacted immediately and comprehensively in our defense.
Don’t for a second think that it has been forgotten.
We live in very strange and fragmented times,but I believe that Europe and the US still have far more that unites them,and that this will always be the case.
It’s the nature of this relationship that allows for the disagreements in viewpoint and the current level of debate.
I also think that it’s because of the relatively minor (and I use the word with reservation,to try make a point,not to belittle the war or the opposition to it)nature of the differences, that debate has been so heated.The current situation is not a deep schism in viewpoint between the two camps,it’s the leading nations of the world hammering out concensus amongst themselves as to how the challenges of a new and very different geopolitical situation is to be faced,managed and resolved.
A bit like having a difference of opinion and heated argument with your wife about something peripheral like plans for the evening…

I’m not really sure If I have managed to get my point over effectively here…it’s late.
So I hope no one gets offended,wasn’t my intention![/quote]

It’s good to hear all of Europe is not lost. Headhnter, good post about the account overdrawn. I wholeheartedly agree. We’ve been cleaning up others mistakes and or tragedies ever since WW2.

129

[quote]juninho wrote:
rainjack wrote:
juninho wrote:

What stereo-type did I refer to? Are you talking about there propensity for throwing in the towel when faced with a challenge.

‘Their’ you go… That’s exactly the one I was meaning. That stereotype however is as valid as the one of Texans being overweight gun-slinging inbreds…[/quote]

I just saw my misspelling - I hate when that happens.

But the over-weight inbred gunslinger is a new one on me - and I’ve heard just about every anti-Texism out there.

130

[quote]rainjack wrote:
juninho wrote:
rainjack wrote:
juninho wrote:

What stereo-type did I refer to? Are you talking about there propensity for throwing in the towel when faced with a challenge.

‘Their’ you go… That’s exactly the one I was meaning. That stereotype however is as valid as the one of Texans being overweight gun-slinging inbreds…

I just saw my misspelling - I hate when that happens.

But the over-weight inbred gunslinger is a new one on me - and I’ve heard just about every anti-Texism out there. [/quote]

No kidding, I’ve never heard inbred about Texas, he must have his states confused.

131

[quote]rainjack wrote:
juninho wrote:
rainjack wrote:
juninho wrote:

What stereo-type did I refer to? Are you talking about there propensity for throwing in the towel when faced with a challenge.

‘Their’ you go… That’s exactly the one I was meaning. That stereotype however is as valid as the one of Texans being overweight gun-slinging inbreds…

I just saw my misspelling - I hate when that happens.

But the over-weight inbred gunslinger is a new one on me - and I’ve heard just about every anti-Texism out there. [/quote]

Texans inbred? Have you ever seen England’s royal family?

132

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:

I’m not really sure If I have managed to get my point over effectively here…it’s late.
So I hope no one gets offended,wasn’t my intention![/quote]

I hear your point and I am glad to hear it.

I think these ideas are at the crux of what angers alot of Americans when we hear hate talk from our own citizens and allies.

The U.S. was propelled by European failures and conflicts into the role of superpower by the necessity of WWII and then the cold war that followed in the wake. Our leaders didn’t really have a choice about it.

Because of our role as the sole remaining superpower we really don’t have a choice now about seeking to influence the middle east and fighting the threat of extremist taking control of the greatest resource region ever known to mankind.

We also don’t have a choice about this reality making us hated and targeted by these same extremist.

The Europeans or even dissenters here in America are perhaps delusional about the inevitabilty of conflict in the middle east or they simply disagree with the Bush adminstrations management and initiative with these conflicts. I hope Neuromancer is right and disagreement with Bush is the main cause for not supporting America in most of Europe.

But some of these dissenters just want a convenient excuse to allow America to do the dirty work and still have their own interests protected. There are also some that hate,envy, or distrust America for being the sole superpower and are behind the scenes actively oppossing us for their own gain.

It is these later two scenarios,in light of all America has done for Europe and the world, that pisses us off.

Like Headhunter said its the blood of our kids and the sweat of our tax payers that is once again bearing a burden that benefits not just our own interests but those of the entire free world.

Debating our leaders decisions is an integral part of democracy.Go ahead and debate Bush all you want but his choices are very limited and not a one is easy or without serious danger and risk invloved.

Debate is fine and I appreciate your post Neuro but for those that have blind hatred for the people that are facing all this shit head on your just not right.

133

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

Texans inbred? Have you ever seen England’s royal family?[/quote]

LOL

You win at the internet!

134

[quote]Heliotrope wrote:
Like Headhunter said its the blood of our kids and the sweat of our tax payers that is once again bearing a burden that benefits not just our own interests but those of the entire free world.
[/quote]

Both you and Headhunter made it seem as if you don’t realize that soldiers from other countries are fighting and dying over all this. The total contribution by the US may be greater than anybody else’s, but all the fallen fighters make the same sacrifice, no matter how many ‘bad guys’ they bring down. Just something to keep in mind when you’re tempted to act as if the entire western world is hiding behind you from every menace.

On the original topic, I don’t know if it makes me anti-american or not, but I absolutely hate it when American tourists get drunk and start chanting “USA!USA!” or start talking shit with strangers about how much better they are than everybody else. Americans are the only people I’ve ever seen try to start fights based on the fact that they don’t like us.

Polite american tourists (which is most of them) usually don’t mention where they’re from unless it comes up, but assholes always identify themselves, which makes it pretty easy to get a skewed perspective of the US, if you’ve never been there. I know you’re mostly talking about foreign policy hate on the part of Europe, but I think it’s easier to bitch about your foreign policy for people who think you’re a country full of jackasses.

Mainstream entertainment coming out of the US (Tom Cruise, Paris Hilton, etc) also makes it easy to paint a real ugly picture about what the US is about, when that combined with american tourists is the only exposure someone gets to your culture.

135

[quote]rainjack wrote:

My job isn’t to babysit you to make sure you get it. If you are having trouble - maybe find another hobby. Or try reading back in the archives if you are having trouble understanding the Euro-centric superiority complex that is pervasive among most of the non-american posters down here.

[/quote]

We don`t feel superior to the US.

Only to Texas.

136

[quote]orion wrote:
rainjack wrote:

My job isn’t to babysit you to make sure you get it. If you are having trouble - maybe find another hobby. Or try reading back in the archives if you are having trouble understanding the Euro-centric superiority complex that is pervasive among most of the non-american posters down here.

We don`t feel superior to the US.

Only to Texas.[/quote]

That’s a good one, Orion. No…really…it was funny…fucking hilarious.

I think the purse is affecting your usually quick wit.

137

To anyone- I don’t assume to have all the answers for America. Just the problem the OP commented upon.

If you truly believe self-awareness in your interactions is pussy, whatever man.

All i was saying, for the OP, is that from my valid perspective, which is non-US, it is problematic that you would expect respect but not give any, or assume that all of Europe’s ‘socialist whingers’ hate all of USA. This isn’t true.

I don’t really need to deal in generalisations like this.

If you’re cool, cool. If not, not.

The fact that you read my post as an assault or insult is very telling rainjack.

Id another guy made refrence to China.Seriously, 50 years max, USA vs China, will happen. China will try to take Taiwan.

How will you reconcile arrogance with being crushed by a nation of tiny people? America is just a nation the same as any other. Each has its era of dominance. Each believes it’s golden age will last for all times. It won’t.

Ever heard the phrase ‘be nice to people on the way up because you’ll meet them on the way down’?

138

[quote]rainjack wrote:

That’s a good one, Orion. No…really…it was funny…fucking hilarious.

I think the purse is affecting your usually quick wit. [/quote]

What can I say, I?m all purse and no cattle…

:-((

139

[quote]orion wrote:
semper_fi wrote:
AlbertaBeef wrote:

Has American done ANYTHING to fix the damage they’ve done to those countries? Have they supplied money and weapons for democratic revolutionaries to take back their country from the same fascists America installed?

Correct me if I’m wrong, because if they have, I haven’t heard about it.

Beef

Well did you know that Saddam was once supported by the U.S. and we sold him weapons and everything but now we overthrew him. So there’s an example.

OMG that would mean that the US acted the same way it acted when it fought WWII, rebuild Europe and founded and led the NATO, it acted out of self interest!

[/quote]

If we don’t act in our self-interest, then in whose interest should we act? Should we then wait around for others to act in OUR interest?
LOL! Enjoy the wait…

140

[quote]dannyrat wrote:
To anyone- I don’t assume to have all the answers for America. Just the problem the OP commented upon.

If you truly believe self-awareness in your interactions is pussy, whatever man.[/quote]

You are so busy trying to think of enlightening things to say - you never read, or comprehend what is being said in response to you.

I guess they don’t teach that in the fancy-assed college you go to.

No - you said we need to sit down and ask ourselves why we are disliked. The OP didn’t ask why we were disliked.

Telling how? Everything you write is offensive and condescending to anyone with a bullshit detector. Your posts are the telling ones.

The sad part about that is that the U.S. will probably sit back and watch it happen. China v. U.S. will not happen in the classic sense. We will take our money out of their economy long before that happens. That is a much bigger weapon than war.

I am under no illusion that the U.S. will the the Alpha Male ad infinitum. But someone has to be big enough and ballsy enough to try and knock us off. So far - there is no one that fits the description.

[quote]Ever heard the phrase ‘be nice to people on the way up because you’ll meet them on the way down’?
[/quote]

Ever heard the phrase “dream like you’ll live forever but live like there is no tomorrow”?