Pervasive Anti-Americanism

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]LNEX wrote:

Wow…

and you wonder why the world hates the US…

I love the US, I am a proud American but to think that the “world would be a jungle of fighting tribes, chaos ruling.” Have you ever left the US. There are some pretty smart people in Europe, Asia, Canada. I think the US has been a major factor in the world today but to say that the world would be a jungle without us is just crazy.

I am guessing you don’t teach History

[/quote]

Gotta agree with you on this one. I also love America and am prepared to die for it but HeadHunter takes nationalism too far by saying that we are morally superior and god favors us more than any other country on earth! And by the way the U.S. won’t be a super power forever you know. It may take hundreds of years but we will fall to second place just like Britain did. No country can remain on top forever.

42

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Why? All the evidence supports everything I said. If you can refute a single statement of mine, I shall hear it gladly.

Without this country, the world would be a jungle of fighting tribes, chaos ruling. I’d rather have a USA hegemony any day.

…that’s cultural myopia in a nutshell. To alot of people outside of the US, it’s the constant meddling by the USA in affairs that did not concern them [outside of financial gains] that results in chaos and mayhem. I don’t think you’d be so quick to root for a USA hegemony if you were at the receiving end of it’s perceived righteousness, but thenagain, the ability to empathize with other views than your own isn’t your strong suit, is it?

[/quote]

We emphasized strongly enough with you fucking dickheads to remove the Nazi jackboot from your head (at the costs of billions of dollars and thousands of lives).

Maybe we shouldn’t have meddled?

After all, there’s no real reason apart from “perceived righteousness” that we needed do anything about Hitler. We could have sat back, fought off the Japanese, watched the Nazis and Communists fight it out, and then made a separate peace with the victor.

And then we spent the next fifty fucking years manning the wall against the communists, spending tens of trillions of dollars and immeasurable human talent keeping you free. Again, we could have saved all that money and just done a deal with the Soviets.

Maybe we shouldn’t have meddled?

Now it’s fashionable for you cowards to sit there and HATE us. Not just disagree with our policies, but accuse us of everything from being war criminals to imperialists, to stupid and myopic. Raw HATE. What are we supposed to think?

It would be one thing if we suddenly came in on the bones of a broken Europe and started bullying you around. That’s not what happened. We have spent GENERATIONS defending Western Europe when some Americans thought we ought to spend that money on ourselves. In return, we didn’t ask to run your countries, to write your laws, to enslave your people, we didn’t ask that you speak English, that you buy our goods, that you join our clubs, that you watch our television, that you submit to our death camps… (a.k.a. we are not European)

In return, what did we get? Cocksuckers like you who come on and smugly say that the USA is meddlesome, infer that we don’t care about anyone else, when the last century proves to any Dutchman with half an ounce of sense or perspective how monumentally, immediately wrong that is. WE CARED ENOUGH ABOUT YOU TO KEEP YOU FREE! I see, that ended in the 1990’s. That doesn’t count anymore?

That really pisses some Americans off. What the fuck were we spending all that on? Would we have done that worse of trade with Soviet Holland?

So I have to ask, what do you guys see the last 60 years as in your history classes? 60 years of American domination of the Netherlands? Given Dutch history, in say – Africa – how can you possibly reach that conclusion? What is your standard?

I resent Western European anti-Americanism extremely. Sometimes it makes me wish that my family and friends who spent combined dozens of years, and all the millions of dollars of tax money we as a family spent freeing and defending you, that we could have it all back.

43

[quote]ChuckyT wrote:

We emphasized strongly enough with you fucking dickheads to remove the Nazi jackboot from your head (at the costs of billions of dollars and thousands of lives).

Maybe we shouldn’t have meddled?

After all, there’s no real reason apart from “perceived righteousness” that we needed do anything about Hitler. We could have sat back, fought off the Japanese, watched the Nazis and Communists fight it out, and then made a separate peace with the victor.

And then we spent the next fifty fucking years manning the wall against the communists, spending tens of trillions of dollars and immeasurable human talent keeping you free. Again, we could have saved all that money and just done a deal with the Soviets.

Maybe we shouldn’t have meddled?

Now it’s fashionable for you cowards to sit there and HATE us. Not just disagree with our policies, but accuse us of everything from being war criminals to imperialists, to stupid and myopic. Raw HATE. What are we supposed to think?

It would be one thing if we suddenly came in on the bones of a broken Europe and started bullying you around. That’s not what happened. We have spent GENERATIONS defending Western Europe when some Americans thought we ought to spend that money on ourselves. In return, we didn’t ask to run your countries, to write your laws, to enslave your people, we didn’t ask that you speak English, that you buy our goods, that you join our clubs, that you watch our television, that you submit to our death camps… (a.k.a. we are not European)

In return, what did we get? Cocksuckers like you who come on and smugly say that the USA is meddlesome, infer that we don’t care about anyone else, when the last century proves to any Dutchman with half an ounce of sense or perspective how monumentally, immediately wrong that is. WE CARED ENOUGH ABOUT YOU TO KEEP YOU FREE! I see, that ended in the 1990’s. That doesn’t count anymore?

That really pisses some Americans off. What the fuck were we spending all that on? Would we have done that worse of trade with Soviet Holland?

So I have to ask, what do you guys see the last 60 years as in your history classes? 60 years of American domination of the Netherlands? Given Dutch history, in say – Africa – how can you possibly reach that conclusion? What is your standard?

I resent Western European anti-Americanism extremely. Sometimes it makes me wish that my family and friends who spent combined dozens of years, and all the millions of dollars of tax money we as a family spent freeing and defending you, that we could have it all back.
[/quote]

And it’s not just the Europeans it’s also the South Koreans.
http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/uglykorea/
Fuck them. Let’s make THEM pay for their defense.

44

Got to agree onthis one. It seems that Britain and France especially, the pop culture are anti-amercan which is really unfortunate. I thought I would show this picture to enlighten some of you people

560×560 57.9 KB

This of about 62 million people.

In total the US lost 418,500 and the tons of money poured into all of post war Europe to rebuild it and Japan.

And here is the monetary effort the US put into WWII: Lend-Lease - Wikipedia

Have fun reading it anti-american bitches. We saver your ass now show us the respect we deserve.

45

I love how Americans always bring up World War II, where there was no moral gray area, as the sole example of their “meddling” world wide.

How about all the fascist dictatorships you set up during the cold war? All the democratically elected leaders that were just a little too left wing for your liking, so you had them deposed?

Has American done ANYTHING to fix the damage they’ve done to those countries? Have they supplied money and weapons for democratic revolutionaries to take back their country from the same fascists America installed?

Correct me if I’m wrong, because if they have, I haven’t heard about it.

Beef

46

[quote]AlbertaBeef wrote:

Has American done ANYTHING to fix the damage they’ve done to those countries? Have they supplied money and weapons for democratic revolutionaries to take back their country from the same fascists America installed?

Correct me if I’m wrong, because if they have, I haven’t heard about it.

Beef[/quote]

Well did you know that Saddam was once supported by the U.S. and we sold him weapons and everything but now we overthrew him. So there’s an example.

47

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
Hack Wilson wrote: When the anger was replaced by the desire to just pretend like nothing happened, like we did after the first WTC attack.
Those involved were arrested and charged. No reason to go invade their home land and murder thousands of innocent people. What is it with you fucking conservatives? [/quote]

Most of those involved in the first WTC bombing were not arrested. They were overseas in countries like Afghanistan. Sometimes it takes military effort to go after terrorist groups.

What is it with people like you that deny the truth in order to play politics?

48

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
Hack Wilson wrote:
well…i guess i thought that if we had invaded the homeland and prosecuted a war instead of individuals…then…and i’m just spitballing here…3,000 civilians may not have been killed, at the same location, less than 10 years later? just a guess.
If 10 schmucks from Kentucky bomb a building in China, is it then China’s right and duty to invade the United States? Your logic is flawed, dumb fuck.[/quote]

If those 10 people are sponsored and protected by the US government then it would be an act of war and it would be within China’s right to retaliate.

Perhaps you are not aware that al Qaeda was protected by the Taliban?

You are embarrassing yourself.

49

[quote]AlbertaBeef wrote:
I love how Americans always bring up World War II, where there was no moral gray area, as the sole example of their “meddling” world wide.

How about all the fascist dictatorships you set up during the cold war? All the democratically elected leaders that were just a little too left wing for your liking, so you had them deposed?

Has American done ANYTHING to fix the damage they’ve done to those countries? Have they supplied money and weapons for democratic revolutionaries to take back their country from the same fascists America installed?

Correct me if I’m wrong, because if they have, I haven’t heard about it.

Beef[/quote]

You are clueless. There was tons of grey area in WWII. Perhaps you are unaware of te atrocities commited by one of the Allies during and after WWII.

America could just as easily taken a stand against the evils of Soviet style Communism and we would have also been right.

50

[quote]semper_fi wrote:
AlbertaBeef wrote:

Has American done ANYTHING to fix the damage they’ve done to those countries? Have they supplied money and weapons for democratic revolutionaries to take back their country from the same fascists America installed?

Correct me if I’m wrong, because if they have, I haven’t heard about it.

Beef

Well did you know that Saddam was once supported by the U.S. and we sold him weapons and everything but now we overthrew him. So there’s an example.[/quote]

Exactly. No matter what the US does in the eyes of some people it is wrong.

The pervasive anti-Americanism is not because of our actions, it is because we are the alpha dog and everyone wants to knock us down.

This bullshit has been going on for decades. The America haters always find an excuse to hate America.

We deal with dictators so we are bad. We refuse to deal with dictators so we are bad. We remove dictators from power so we are bad.

51

[quote]semper_fi wrote:
Well did you know that Saddam was once supported by the U.S. and we sold him weapons and everything but now we overthrew him. So there’s an example.[/quote]

Destroyed the country in the process, but you definitely overthrew him.

The rest of the world doesn’t hate the USA, however, I imagine it would be a good deal popular if it chose to keep its sticky beak out of every one else’s politics every now and then and took the time to get its own house in order.

For example, from a personal perspective, I can’t understand how a country so rich and powerful has turned New Orleans into such a complete cluster fuck and yet is spending all it’s time and energy giving everyone else bollocks about how they’re doing things in their country.

Another part of it is that people in other parts of the world wish the US would shut up about things the US knows nothing about.

For example, irrespective of whether or not you agree with the operation of an islamic givernment (in whatever form), I can’t think of anyone less qualified to be telling them how to run their government than the US; especially when the current US administration has no interest in trying to understand and every interest in saying ‘do it our way’.

The US should, however, be taking an active role in those countries, like Israel, where it has a vested interest and investment in its government.

The other thing, of course, is the arrant hypocrisy in US policy, per organisations like the WTO, where it rabbits on about free trade this and that yet protects it’s internal industries up the wazoo…you can’t have it both ways.

The thing is, the US means well - even if it is a little myopic - it does a lot of good in the world (even if it’s aid %age as a portion of GDP is a lot worse than it would appear in gross amounts (mind you, the NZ govt are a bunch of official skinflints too) and there are many great people there; what we have to remember is that the US government isn’t the US people or the US will to be a force for good.

As for the second world war - can we give this a rest, morons on both sides were arguing this back before the ‘current’ old hands were around and it’s why people like myself and others way back when bailed (kinda answers Prof X’s post about board standards: it’s cyclical, nothing more nothing less).

52

[quote]OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
No Zap, I do not dislike Jews in NYC. Secular, mainstream Jews are actually pretty cool people who contribute a lot to our society.

I do have a problem with many of the orthodox/Hasidic Jews who think and act like non-Jews are animals and deserve to be treated as such. Come to NYC, walk through a Jewish neighborhood in Brooklyn, and we’ll see how you feel about the matter afterwards.

[/quote]

I have dealt with Hasidic Jews. They ate a closed society.

Your anti-Jewish comments have gone far beyond Hasidic Jews.

You may fool some of the guys here but many of us see you for what you are.

53

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Most of the world feels towards us like Wreckless does — no matter what we do, we’re evil. The problem is that America is the first country created by reason and not by chance or a club.

We especially remind the rest of the world of what THEY COULD BE, if they had balls and brains. Sure, we’re not perfect, but who is? We are the most moral and most noble country on earth and this will forever be a reproach against the immoral, the slothful, and the just plain evil in the rest of the world.

God bless (and has blessed!) the United States of America, God strong right hand here on earth!!

God does not have favorites.

It is blasphemous to say otherwise.

Didn’t say that. God created this country to be the guiding light of the world. Notice how its been the USA to slowly expunge evil, disease, poverty, hatred, from around the globe. Germany is peaceful and productive as is Japan. China and India have adopted capitalism (in various forms), and the USSR is gone.

[/quote]

Are you really this dumb? The U.S. has the nation to “expunge evil, disease, poverty, hatred, from around the globe”?

Britain’s Royal Navy stopped the slave trade 50 years before the Emancipation Proclamation, Europe gave us the Renaissance and the Enlightenment (along with modern science), ancient Greece and Rome gave us most of the philosophy and political institutions we use today, Christianity sprang up in Palestine and the Near East… And Adam Smith, the intellectual father of capitalism, was a Scot.

We’ve done our share as a country, particularly in the last century, but to pretend America is responsible for all that’s good in the world is moronically myopic. The fact that you’re a teacher is depressing.

54

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
semper_fi wrote:
AlbertaBeef wrote:

Has American done ANYTHING to fix the damage they’ve done to those countries? Have they supplied money and weapons for democratic revolutionaries to take back their country from the same fascists America installed?

Correct me if I’m wrong, because if they have, I haven’t heard about it.

Beef

Well did you know that Saddam was once supported by the U.S. and we sold him weapons and everything but now we overthrew him. So there’s an example.

Exactly. No matter what the US does in the eyes of some people it is wrong.

The pervasive anti-Americanism is not because of our actions, it is because we are the alpha dog and everyone wants to knock us down.

This bullshit has been going on for decades. The America haters always find an excuse to hate America.

We deal with dictators so we are bad. We refuse to deal with dictators so we are bad. We remove dictators from power so we are bad.[/quote]

That’s all true, but bear in mind a lot of what we do is for our own self-interest. I’m not knocking that, national security and economic interests should be the primary concerns of a nation, but to pretend we liberated Iraq or fought communism primarily out of moral concern for the rest of the world is laughable.

55

[quote]Hack Wilson wrote:
But all of the people - at least as far as I have observed - who say this kind of thing, all ‘happen’ to be liberal.

Anyone know of any conservatives who subscribe to this kind of thinking?

[/quote]

There are actually a few conservatives who fall into this camp. Not as many as among the “liberals”, but there are some, paleocons would be the term, who see America as a country that lost its way around WWI or so, later for some, and a country that is on the path to ruin, due to relativism, multiculturalism, and other boogeymen.

White separatists (Ruby Ridge) are an example. The people often home school their kids, for obvious reasons.

56

[quote]OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
9/11 is a result of support for Israel. Say what you want about whether we should or shouldn’t support Israel, but just realize that 9/11 is a product of that.

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.

Bin Laden and his thugs do not hate our freedoms. They aren’t jealous of us. They don’t want to kill us because we are “infidels”.

If any of you actually took the time to read his speeches (which aren’t published in our newspapers), he clearly states the reason for his anger is our support of Israel. He states his anger started in the early 80s when we stood by and let the Israelis destroy Beirut.
[/quote]

That’s bullshit, certainly if you’re referring to Bin Laden and the Palestinians. Al Qaeda has never done more than pay the requisite lip service to the Palestinian cause, their focus is on U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, American immorality (see pop culture), the invasion of Iraq, etc. The Palestinian cause is way, way down their list.

If you think we can appease Al Qaeda by not supporting Israel, you are dead wrong.

This, however, is 100% right.

57

[quote]iscariot wrote:
semper_fi wrote:
Well did you know that Saddam was once supported by the U.S. and we sold him weapons and everything but now we overthrew him. So there’s an example.

Destroyed the country in the process, but you definitely overthrew him.

The rest of the world doesn’t hate the USA, however, I imagine it would be a good deal popular if it chose to keep its sticky beak out of every one else’s politics every now and then and took the time to get its own house in order.

For example, from a personal perspective, I can’t understand how a country so rich and powerful has turned New Orleans into such a complete cluster fuck and yet is spending all it’s time and energy giving everyone else bollocks about how they’re doing things in their country.
[/quote]

  1. The clusterfuck in N.O. has very little to do with the Federal Govt., this is a long and complicated discussion that should (and probably has) been dealt with in other posts.

  2. Really, who are we telling what to do? Iraq and Iran (thats going real well) sure, but who else. Last I checked the U.S. wasn’t telling any European country how to run thier country. Who exactly are you talking about?

We are telling one govt. how to run their country, Iraq. Do you fault us for the belief that democracy would be better than yet another religious state?

When you say active role, do you mean we should invade them?

Either way, doesn’t it make sense to take in active role in those countries that want to wipe Isreal, where we have “a vested interest and investment in its government”, off the map?

Other than the steel tariffs, what are you refering to? If we were really doing this, everything that I own wouldn’t say Made in China. Compared to the protectionist European countries, the US is almost as free as free can get (in terms of trade).

[quote]
The thing is, the US means well - even if it is a little myopic - it does a lot of good in the world (even if it’s aid %age as a portion of GDP is a lot worse than it would appear in gross amounts (mind you, the NZ govt are a bunch of official skinflints too) and there are many great people there; what we have to remember is that the US government isn’t the US people or the US will to be a force for good.

As for the second world war - can we give this a rest, morons on both sides were arguing this back before the ‘current’ old hands were around and it’s why people like myself and others way back when bailed (kinda answers Prof X’s post about board standards: it’s cyclical, nothing more nothing less). [/quote]

I agree that WWII should probably be dropped.

I’m not trying to piss you off here, but I just believe that much anti-american sentiment comes from misinformation or misunderstanding of the US itself.

If I am wrong or misguided in my responses, feel free to correct.

58

excellent post holifila

59

…‘hate’ is an emotion not worth my time and energy, so i do not engage in it. Let’s put this in perspective: …protecting ones [financial] interest by installing puppet regimes that will follow your lead, despite those regimes being responsible for killing civilians and lining their own pockets through drugtrade and embezzlement, does not make you any friends abroad…

…being hypocritical about ethics and morals doesn’t help you either. Believing ‘might makes right’ is a totalitarian attitude, and the blatant dismissal of other cultures in favor of ones own reeks of ignorance and shortsightedness…

…most american citizens are as indoctrinated and brainwashed into believing their country can’t do wrong as the germans were early 20th century. The government uses the same tactics to ensure the populations support, but simply uses different labels to get away with it…

…criticism does not equal hatred. I always thought it was the pinnacle of american philosophy to distrust those in/with power, and that individual freedom to express onesself was one of the pillars the country was founded upon…

…from a european perspective it’s simply weird to see that there is no ability amongst most americans to reflect on what is happening, and to be able to be honest about your countries actions in the past and present. The refusal to admit that there is no such thing as an unprovoked attack holds back a dialogue, and just maintains a level of distrust and a ‘not for us, then against us’ mentality…

[rant over]

60

Ephrem makes valid points.
What we seem to be seeing in America (from the viewpoint of a Brit serving in your Army)is a worrying increase in JINGOISM, as opposed to nationalism.

To Europeans, this is very worrying as we have seen where this kind of thing has led in the past. We have seen it in numerous posts on this thread. I think, maybe, some American citizens are feeling worried about this too …