Peri-Workout Nutrition vs Total Calories Intake

Nutrition
1

So I was wondering what you guys think is “most important”?

Basically I’ve always just eaten as much as I could, and instead of protein shake I just drink half a liter of milk after training.
However sometimes this is starting to be inconvenient for multiple reasons and I feel like I can only make progress in the gym if I really really stuff food down my throat until I’m about to explode.
Since I’ve recently hit a plateau in my training, besides switching routines I’m looking into my nutritional habits. What should I do to optimize peri-workout nutrition? I’ve completely ignored this (besides my milk & just generally lots of eating). Any good articles on peri-workout nutrition?

Can a well-timed shake replace having to eat so much? I like eating a lot, but sometimes it gets annoying.

Also, one question about creatinine, I tried it a couple of years ago and it really seemed to suppress my appetite (yes, I drank a ton). Anyone has the same experience? Is it worth to try the variations (I don’t remember which ones but there are a ton) that are supposed to help digestion / absorption in the stomach?

As always, many thanks for any advice.

2

Obviously total daily #s are very important in terms of gaining or losing, BUT in terms of quality performance in the gym, and muscle retention when cutting (very important to competitors!), I’ve found that peri-workout nutrition has made a very big impact in my own training. I can suffer a bit more throughout the rest of the day, and then group a very large amount of cals surrounding my training.

S

3

[quote]Xav wrote:
So I was wondering what you guys think is “most important”?[/quote]
That’s like asking which is more important, barbells or dumbbells.

[quote]Basically I’ve always just eaten as much as I could, and instead of protein shake I just drink half a liter of milk after training.
However sometimes this is starting to be inconvenient for multiple reasons and I feel like I can only make progress in the gym if I really really stuff food down my throat until I’m about to explode. [/quote]
What’s your height, weight, and general fat level (not percentage, pudgy, average, ripped, etc.)? And what’s your current training routine and goal?

Unless you’re crazy-underweight with an inferno of a metabolism and trying to gain weight, there should be a reasonable middle-ground for you to see progress, if your training and general nutrition are on point, without having to gorge until the point of bursting.

Add a protein and carb shake before and during training. That would be, in my opinion, optimized peri-workout nutrition. It’s about giving your body the nutrients it needs before, during, and immediately after training. The rest of your daily nutrition hould handle the non-peri-workout part of the day.

This article is pretty sciencey, but talks about it:

Here’s another one from the same guys, John Meadows and Bill Willis:

This talks about Surge Workout Fuel in particular and peri-workout nutrition in general:

Short answer… no it can’t. Over-focusing on periWO nutrition without eating enough during the day is like wearing $30 lifting gloves, a $50 lifting belt, and $120 lifting shoes and then only training with sets of 25 reps.
However, like Stu said, in some situations you can “make-up” for low daily calories by piling in plenty of peri-WO nutrition.

I haven’t heard of creatine (not creatinine, that’s an unfortunate typo) being an appetite suppressant, nope. Was the creatine the only change you made at the time? I guess it could be worth trying the creatine malate in the T-Nation store, but really, I don’t think the creatine was the issue at the time.

4

Of course total trumps peri, how is this confusing? Of course you’d have to list some extremes to make a point on this.

Would a surplus of calories and protein help develop muscle over the course of time while not paying any attention to peri-nutrition? Of course.

Would taking in food/supplements around the workout yet in a deficit lead to muscle growth over time? I’d say no.

That’s not to say peri doesn’t play a role in success, but to think that it could trump overall intake is something the supplement industry would love for us to believe.

Now, if one were to get a surplus of nutrients peri then that’s another story, but is it then solely b/c of timing or the surplus or both.

Hope that flows well, typed as it all came to mind.

Most people would do well with focusing on the daily stuff consistently over time, then worry about the details of peri-, where more advanced people would do well focusing on the details :wink:

5

Thanks for the advice, it’s definitely going to help.

I’m 1m75, 90 kg. Fat level: six pack visible on good days, not visible on bad days. My metabolism is cool, easy gainer. Goals: size up to 100 kg but maintaining good strength to bodyweigth ratio (hence the weighted chin ups & dips in my routine)

Routine:
I workout at home, so I’ve got some equipment constraints for heavy barbell work.
I’ve recently made some changes to my routine, so I’ll write down the old one & new one.

OLD
Monday: chest workout (dumbbell bench, weighted dips, weighted push ups) - usually bout 40 minutes
Tuesday: back (dumbbell rows, weighted chin ups, shrugs) - 40 minutes
Wednesday: legs + core (split squat, planks, high rep rack pulls) - 30 minute and quite useless (most change needed here)
Thursday: usually party or some kind of sport with mates
Friday:shoulder (DB shoulder press, lateral raises, external rotations, a row/raise to hit posterior delt) - 40 minutes
Saturday: arms (EZ curls, kickbacks, DB preacher curls) - like only 25 minutes & jogging
Sunday: the Holy Day: rest

I’ve done this routine for 1,5 years (everything before that is irrelevant) while doing every mentioned exercise 4 sets, like 6 - 12 reps (depends on exercise), gradually increasing weight.
I believe my chest & back workouts are good, however on arms & shoulders I’ve stopped making progress some time ago and I THINK I might benefit from more volume. My legs day is a joke. Legs & arms need a lot more work.

NEW: The most important is some exercise changes & work more on volume (obviously once I hit a high amount of reps I’d increase the weight). This volume wouldn’t be set in stone but depending on how I “feel” and I’d change the exercises like every month. So basically I have my “basic lifts” which I always do, and then add extra volume work that I change very frequently, going for a 1 hour workout.
At the same time I might go “now and then” to a real gym on Thursday to do some heavy sets on the basic movements (like 5 rep range maxing out).

Monday: same basic 3 lifts (instead of push ups incline BB bench) but I’m planning to add more volume work (switching exercises like more pressing, flies) and work out during 1 hour
Tuesday: same basic lifts with more volume (chin up variations, BB rows, pullovers)
Wednesday: high rep squats with the weights I have (only around 100 kg); 1 legged deadlift (someone recommended these to me) & work on pistols (weighted in due time) + volume
Thursday: same
Friday: DB shoulder press, high volume lateral raises (I used to do like 7 reps per set), external rotations + extra volume work (don’t really know what yet)
Saturday: EZ curls, Kickbacks, Preacher curls, Triceps extensions (I think I know how to improvise a pulley system) + volume / running

Anyway, this aside I always train IMMEDIATELY after dinner. Does it make sense then to add a shake before working out? I’ve got to admit my workout quality really depends on the type of dinner I’ve had. I never thought to take shakes while lifting, I’ll definitely try that.
I’ll try the t nation creatine (that was a stupid typo indeed) once I get back home. I don’t remember changing anything at that time besides taking creatine, been a while though. I hope shipping to Europe (Belgium) is no problem.
When buying a carb / protein shake what do I look for exactly? There are like 9999999 possibilities. And how much do I take per workout?
I just hope this will help me to avoid eating shit (which I started doing more & more) just to get enough calories.

Thanks for the articles.

6

I take in half/majority of my calories in my peri-workout nutrition and am finding it works wonders as far as body comp goes.

When buying a carb/protein shake, I think the most important factors are quality and taste. Hence why I have been buying only Biotest supps for years. Typically 2 scoops of Metabolic Drive PWO is sufficient. I personally think the most important pre-workout nutrition includes carbs and BCAA’s. A protein shake right before a workout is unnecessary IMO, unless you have 1+ hours to digest it (I like to workout on a relatively empty stomach, especially on leg day).

Focus on what you are eating for dinner instead of worry about shakes for your pre-workout.