People with Health Insurance Going Bankrupt

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]2busy wrote:
Look, Zep, you’re a left wing ideologue who molds truth to fit your views.

Let’s just look at this claim.

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
More people die overall in the U.S. because of our healthcare systems.
[/quote]

Really?

The number one cause of death in the US is Cardiovascular issues.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm

What causes Caridovascular disease?

“Atherosclerosis is the most common form of this disorder. Atherosclerosis is also the most common cause of cardiovascular disease, and it’s often caused by an unhealthy diet, lack of exercise, being overweight and smoking. All of these are major risk factors for developing atherosclerosis and, in turn, cardiovascular disease.”

"Causes of heart arrhythmia
Common causes of abnormal heart rhythms (arrhythmias), or conditions that can lead to arrhythmias include:

Heart defects you’re born with (congenital heart defects)
Coronary artery disease
High blood pressure
Diabetes
Smoking
Excessive use of alcohol or caffeine
Drug abuse
Stress
Some over-the-counter medications, prescription medications, dietary supplements and herbal remedies
Valvular heart disease"

From http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/heart-disease/DS01120/DSECTION=causes

So the US Healthcare system is causing people to have eat an unhealthy diet, not exercise, be fat, and smoke?

How about, people are not being responsible for themselves?

You can’t blame Jiffy Lube for your car engine shelling its bearings because you chose to change the oil every 50,000 miles.

I’m convinced you need to move to Cuba. You will be happy there.

And look, it will reduce the amount of stress in your life. You know, that’s one of those factors that can cause heart arrhythmia.[/quote]

Even if your heart disease statement is true it doesn’t deflate my statement. Read it again.

42

[quote]pushharder wrote:
From the comments at end of article:

"

These people are either low-information or fundamentally dishonest.

Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers. Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.

Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians. Breast cancer mortality is 9 percent higher, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher and colon cancer mortality among men is about 10 percent higher than in the United States.

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/BA649

“Medical bankruptcy” The alleged link between health costs and bankruptcy is about as real as the tooth fairy. Well-designed economic studies have found no statistical link between bankruptcies and health problems.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congr…

http://www.patientpowernow.org…

I don’t understand why anyone would advocate for post office-like health care."

Yep.
[/quote]

And I don’t understand why anyone would push for a market-based system that costs twice as much as any other system and doesn’t even perform in the top 10. That makes no sense to me.

43

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Obamacare does not benefit the public. It benefits the insurance companies. Surprise!

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=767&Itemid=74&jumival=9986[/quote]

Obamacare hasn’t really been rolled out yet. I agree that it’s not really helping the public as much as it benefits the insurance companies but let’s be fair about it.

james

44

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]drunkpig wrote:
The notion that the US is the only wealthy nation with a market-based health care system is a complete joke. Every nation on the planet has a market based healthcare system. Most of them happen to be black or gray market systems, but regardless of the greatness of “free health care”, a willing service provider and a willing service consumer will always arrive at an equitable exchange.

The progressive ignorance displayed by certain folk in this thread is a testament to the effectiveness of lemming-like propaganda.

I have had several clients denied medical services because of the new medicare rules. Another client is a PT and she is seriously concerned about losing her business. My GP is considering expatriating to Central America. If it’s happening in Backwater, USA at this level - I can’t imagine what’s going on in more populous areas of the country.

And all of this is the fault of BarryCare. The term ‘death panel’ is no longer a political scare tactic. It is a reality. [/quote]

I agree that there is an unprecedented level of propaganda . However, this comes from news sources that have a financial advantage for not telling the public the truth.

Some countries have a fully run government healthcare system and others have a mix, but to claim that they resemble America’s market-based system is disingenuous.

A market-based system where “willing service consumer will always arrive at an equitable exchange” - now that is a complete joke if I ever heard of one. I’m sure the American consumer loves paying double what everyone else in the world pays. Or wait maybe it’s the fact that medical bills are the leading cause of bankruptcy in our efficient market-based system. I’m sure they were so willing to go that route.[/quote]

You misunderstand. Horrifically misunderstand.

I’m not going to try and educate you on the realities of free enterprise. Your ignorance screams much too loudly to be shushed on the internet.

However, when 50 cents of every dollar spent in US healthcare comes from tax revenue or debt - we do not operate in a market based healthcare system. We operate in a government aided crony capitalist system.

The lies you have been told, and the lies you steadfastly hold to like a fat lady clutching her Krispy Kremes, are no more noble than the propaganda saying the Republicans are for a limited government.

You are a person who has no soul. No intestinal fortitude. No ability to stand on his own. You can only believe the lies you have been told, and sit in judgement on those who believe a different color lie.

Less cryptically, you are as much of a problem to a free society as the most evil big corporation.

45

[quote]drunkpig wrote:
However, when 50 cents of every dollar spent in US healthcare comes from tax revenue or debt - we do not operate in a market based healthcare system. We operate in a government aided crony capitalist system.
[/quote]

Of course we don’t operate in a market based system. Insurance is meant to be based on risk profiles and it is meant to cover non-routine expenses.

If we did:

A healthy 25 year old would have to pay very little for healthcare.

Someone with a serious pre-existing condition would not be covered (for that condition anyway).

A 60+ year old person would have to pay a large amount.

An obese 25 year old would have to pay significantly more than the healthy 25 year old but probably not as much as the average 60+ year old.

A pregnant woman would have to pay a lot. So would a family with young children. On the other hand once the children were all older than 5 or 6 insurance would drop drastically.

Health Insurance could be very simple. A healthy 25 year old might have insurance that states if they get a serious illness they get a lump sum $500,000 and then they have to renegotiate a new insurance policy which will probably no longer cover that illness or related ones but will still cover other serious illnesses.

The 25 year old could decide they just want to spend the money on hookers and blow. More realistically they could decide to go to the hospital etc of their choosing in the location of their choosing. It is no longer “Sorry that clinic might be the best for your particular condition but they are not one of our preferred providers”. Let the free market work!

So what is stopping the people from embracing a free market in the United States? I would argue it is the lack of fairness, justice, and trust in the system. There is an understanding in this country that the system is biased towards those with the power (often considered “ok” by so called conservatives in the belief that it is for the good of the economy). And there is a lot of truth to it.

What can we do to fix it? Push for harsh measures upon corporations violating the integrity of the system.

A big bank launders money for terrorists? Either shut it down or nationalize it and jail the people directly responsible. Will that be bad for the economy in the short term? Too bad! Sometimes justice is bad for the economy.

46

phaethon wrote:

So what is stopping the people from embracing a free market in the United States? I would argue it is the lack of fairness, justice.

-This x1,000,000. A free market is the only system that can be fair and just.

47

[quote]drunkpig wrote:
The term ‘death panel’ is no longer a political scare tactic. It is a reality. [/quote]

It has bee a reality since INSURANCE COMPANIES put profit over their original intention

48

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]drunkpig wrote:
The term ‘death panel’ is no longer a political scare tactic. It is a reality. [/quote]

It has bee a reality since INSURANCE COMPANIES put profit over their original intention [/quote]

And once again the ignorance of the progressive propaganda machine proves that repeating a lie over and over again will override all sense of rational, logical thought.

Sorry, skippy, but the original intention of insurance companies, supplement companies, car companies, energy companies,and every other COMPANY on the planet is to make a profit. The ones who don’t don’t stay in business very long.

LMAO, only in the fantasy world of the prog nirvana does a company exist for any reason other than to make money.

Please explain to me in your best progressive speak how it’s okay for the government to impose death panels, but insurance companies are only after evil profits if they do the same.

49

[quote]2busy wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
You don’t have to touch socialized medicine, it has already proven much more efficient. Medicare for everyone. better service ,better healthcare and lower costs. No price gouging the public. [/quote]

Very efficient.

http://medicarenewsgroup.com/news/medicare-faqs/individual-faq?faqId=6a130489-e387-476d-a358-c77cfba68367[/quote]

What’s $500+ billion in fraud, that’s chump change…

50

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]drunkpig wrote:
The term ‘death panel’ is no longer a political scare tactic. It is a reality. [/quote]

It has bee a reality since INSURANCE COMPANIES put profit over their original intention [/quote]

Newsflash: the original intent of insurance was to gasp make money! They are just gambling that, on the aggregate, the money shelled out for health care will be more than offset by the premium charged. The insured makes the opposite wager. And usually loses. I suppose you get peace of mind though.

52

My health care got worse in 2013. I get 20 chiropractor visits a year, I was out of those in mid-March. I struck a deal with the office there, I just keep making my cash co-payments of $25/ visit.

I saw my lung doctor in February to have my asthma medications renewed, that visit cost me $150 for my Advair and another $30 for 6 rescue inhalers, plus $152 for the office visit alone. I’m going to ask them to submit the bill again as my deductible has since been met elsewhere. And this is good for 3 months of my prescriptions.

BSing with my chiropractor, he said there are local doctors who ask a 1-time fee of $10,000 and they take care of that single patient all year. He wouldn’t name a name though, but I believe it.

Rob

53

[quote]2busy wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
You don’t have to touch socialized medicine, it has already proven much more efficient. Medicare for everyone. better service ,better healthcare and lower costs. No price gouging the public. [/quote]

Very efficient.

http://medicarenewsgroup.com/news/medicare-faqs/individual-faq?faqId=6a130489-e387-476d-a358-c77cfba68367[/quote]

Super efficient.

54

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
My health care got worse in 2013. I get 20 chiropractor visits a year, I was out of those in mid-March. I struck a deal with the office there, I just keep making my cash co-payments of $25/ visit.

I saw my lung doctor in February to have my asthma medications renewed, that visit cost me $150 for my Advair and another $30 for 6 rescue inhalers, plus $152 for the office visit alone. I’m going to ask them to submit the bill again as my deductible has since been met elsewhere. And this is good for 3 months of my prescriptions.
[/quote]

ANY TIME YOUR “INSURANCE” COVERS STUPID SHIT LIKE THIS… YOU LOSE! Insurance is not meant to cover basic doctor visits and health activities. It is not efficient to do so (you have just introduced a middle man who needs their cut as well as introducing extra overhead to both sides). And people wonder why costs keep going up :S

55

Insurance covers catastrophies anything else is a Maintenence Plan.

56

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
Insurance covers catastrophies anything else is a Maintenence Plan.[/quote]

Bingo. Health Insurance companies are terrible when it comes to maintenance.

$1000 overhead for a $30,000 operation is no big deal. $50 or $100 overhead on a basic doctors visit is.

57

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

It has bee a reality since INSURANCE COMPANIES put profit over their original intention

[/quote]

The Pitttt gold mine keeps right on crankin’ out the ore.

IMPRESSIVE, my friend, very impressive!
[/quote]

Thanks , Before Reagan Blue Cross and Blue Shield were nonprofit . I can tell you since Reagan blue Cross and Blue shield have gone to HELL

58

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]drunkpig wrote:
The term ‘death panel’ is no longer a political scare tactic. It is a reality. [/quote]

It has bee a reality since INSURANCE COMPANIES put profit over their original intention [/quote]

And once again the ignorance of the progressive propaganda machine proves that repeating a lie over and over again will override all sense of rational, logical thought.

Sorry, skippy, but the original intention of insurance companies, supplement companies, car companies, energy companies,and every other COMPANY on the planet is to make a profit. The ones who don’t don’t stay in business very long.

LMAO, only in the fantasy world of the prog nirvana does a company exist for any reason other than to make money.

Please explain to me in your best progressive speak how it’s okay for the government to impose death panels, but insurance companies are only after evil profits if they do the same.

[/quote]
while I do not have time to get into your idea of death panels which have existed since profit trumped care .

Before the 80s Most insurance was nonprofit and for profit plans had to compete with non profits . It was designed to maximize (CUSTMER/PATIENT) experience and not Corporate profit

59

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
while I do not have time to get into your idea of death panels which have existed since profit trumped care .

Before the 80s Most insurance was nonprofit and for profit plans had to compete with non profits . It was designed to maximize (CUSTMER/PATIENT) experience and not Corporate profit
[/quote]

You’re going to have to supply some links or some form of substantiation for your position. In point of fact, BCBS did not exist prior to Reagan. Two companies merged in 1982.

Given that BCBS operates under various different names in 39 states, and given that I am more than pleased with the high deductible health coverage they provide for me and mine, I would suggest to you that you might have made the wrong blanket statement to the wrong person.

60

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Before the 80s Most insurance was nonprofit and for profit plans had to compete with non profits . It was designed to maximize (CUSTMER/PATIENT) experience and not Corporate profit
[/quote]

uhm…

scroll down about halfway or so. There’s a whole section dedicated to health insurance.

I know it’s wikipedia, so take it for what it’s worth. But I couldn’t resist the ease with which your “most insurance companies were non-profit before the 80’s” position could be shot down.

Do you even try to research the pablum/propaganda you regurgitate with such lemming-like diligence?

From the wiki link above: “Commercial insurance companies began offering accident and sickness insurance (disability insurance) as early as the mid-19th century.”