People with Health Insurance Going Bankrupt

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
It is a sad state of affairs that people who actually believe in the democratic plank still vote for those wolves in sheeps clothing. At least most democrats realize the republicans side with business and the elite but they fool themselves into thinking that the dems are there to protect them when in fact they are owned by corporations like the republicans,
[/quote]

I actually think the non-establishment Republicans (e.g., Cruz, Rand Paul) are not “owned by corporations.” Hence why all the old guard Republicans were literally “screaming” at them for not letting various bills pass.

May not agree with them, but at least they have principles.

The only Democrat like that I can think of is Dennis Kucinich (who I don’t agree with about anything, but at least he has some honor).

Fuck, a Congress made of half Cruzs and half Kucinichs would actually cut the establishment crap out and get something done.[/quote]

Bernie Sanders is a democrat who isn’t owner by a corporation.

But I agree establishment-type politicians need togo away. The two-party system will never change. Vote 3rd party and at least you have a soul.

22

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]rcsermas wrote:
Is this a shock to anyone? Buy insurance or pay a fine to the government. Everybody wins! Except for the people it’s purported to benefit. Oh, and people previously deemed uninsurable now must be accepted? And where does the money for that come from? Dare I say increased premiums? “But, but, but, the insurance companies have to spend 80% of your premium on health care, or refund the rest!” Yes, and I am sure everyone will see every penny they are owed. You know, since insurance companies have such a history of being honest organizations. People are stupid.[/quote]

The fact that an insurance company can deny someone because they have a condition is immoral. So if a company can’t make any money on these people fuck’em! This should be against the law. The U.S. is the only wealthy industrialized country that has a market-based system for healthcare. Others have some sort of government run healthcare. They pay far less and get better results. So if it’s cost your concerned with then why stick to the U.S. model healthcare? Insurance companies are corporations that find ways to deny claims. In fact the whole industry is a sham. Loaded with white collar criminals.[/quote]

Please. Insurance isn’t charity. Those people should have bothered to get coverage before they fell ill. Now they don’t even have to bother. Just pay the (cheaper) fine until they need coverage, then when they fall seriously ill they are entitled to insurance, and also to fucking the rest of us out of money. I’m not even going to touch socialized healthcare.

23

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Obamacare does not benefit the public. It benefits the insurance companies. Surprise!

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=767&Itemid=74&jumival=9986[/quote]

Perhaps people will realize that the Democrats are the polar opposite of the men-of-the-people they pretend to be.

But I doubt it.

43% of USA citizens don’t even know ObamaCare is the law of the land. This core of idiots is what keeps these crooks getting re-elected.[/quote]

WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!! THEY NEED MORE MONEY FOR EDUCATION!!![/quote]

Kids today are beyond stupid, I cannot even imagine the bullshit government will sell the these future voters and how they vote to pass it.[/quote]

They have already sold their future. I heard someone say the other day on TV if the US Government was a company their finances would resemble ENRON. Too many unfunded liabilites that are off the balance sheet.[/quote]

They did some research about how much money we owe statewide. The range was between $800 Billion - $1.1 Trillion.

24

[quote]rcsermas wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]rcsermas wrote:
Is this a shock to anyone? Buy insurance or pay a fine to the government. Everybody wins! Except for the people it’s purported to benefit. Oh, and people previously deemed uninsurable now must be accepted? And where does the money for that come from? Dare I say increased premiums? “But, but, but, the insurance companies have to spend 80% of your premium on health care, or refund the rest!” Yes, and I am sure everyone will see every penny they are owed. You know, since insurance companies have such a history of being honest organizations. People are stupid.[/quote]

The fact that an insurance company can deny someone because they have a condition is immoral. So if a company can’t make any money on these people fuck’em! This should be against the law. The U.S. is the only wealthy industrialized country that has a market-based system for healthcare. Others have some sort of government run healthcare. They pay far less and get better results. So if it’s cost your concerned with then why stick to the U.S. model healthcare? Insurance companies are corporations that find ways to deny claims. In fact the whole industry is a sham. Loaded with white collar criminals.[/quote]

Please. Insurance isn’t charity. Those people should have bothered to get coverage before they fell ill. Now they don’t even have to bother. Just pay the (cheaper) fine until they need coverage, then when they fall seriously ill they are entitled to insurance, and also to fucking the rest of us out of money. I’m not even going to touch socialized healthcare.
[/quote]

You don’t have to touch socialized medicine, it has already proven much more efficient. Medicare for everyone. better service ,better healthcare and lower costs. No price gouging the public.

25

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
You don’t have to touch socialized medicine, it has already proven much more efficient. Medicare for everyone. better service ,better healthcare and lower costs. No price gouging the public. [/quote]

Very efficient.

http://medicarenewsgroup.com/news/medicare-faqs/individual-faq?faqId=6a130489-e387-476d-a358-c77cfba68367

26

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]rcsermas wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]rcsermas wrote:
Is this a shock to anyone? Buy insurance or pay a fine to the government. Everybody wins! Except for the people it’s purported to benefit. Oh, and people previously deemed uninsurable now must be accepted? And where does the money for that come from? Dare I say increased premiums? “But, but, but, the insurance companies have to spend 80% of your premium on health care, or refund the rest!” Yes, and I am sure everyone will see every penny they are owed. You know, since insurance companies have such a history of being honest organizations. People are stupid.[/quote]

The fact that an insurance company can deny someone because they have a condition is immoral. So if a company can’t make any money on these people fuck’em! This should be against the law. The U.S. is the only wealthy industrialized country that has a market-based system for healthcare. Others have some sort of government run healthcare. They pay far less and get better results. So if it’s cost your concerned with then why stick to the U.S. model healthcare? Insurance companies are corporations that find ways to deny claims. In fact the whole industry is a sham. Loaded with white collar criminals.[/quote]

Please. Insurance isn’t charity. Those people should have bothered to get coverage before they fell ill. Now they don’t even have to bother. Just pay the (cheaper) fine until they need coverage, then when they fall seriously ill they are entitled to insurance, and also to fucking the rest of us out of money. I’m not even going to touch socialized healthcare.
[/quote]

You don’t have to touch socialized medicine, it has already proven much more efficient. Medicare for everyone. better service ,better healthcare and lower costs. No price gouging the public. [/quote]

Yes, and all the report of several month waits to get an appointment, or people dying from being either straight up denied or while waiting on treatments are just fantasy. Or that individuals the world over that have the capital to do so frequently come to the US for medical care. Just propaganda spewed forth by those evil capitalists who just want to take your money.

27

[quote]2busy wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
You don’t have to touch socialized medicine, it has already proven much more efficient. Medicare for everyone. better service ,better healthcare and lower costs. No price gouging the public. [/quote]

Very efficient.

http://medicarenewsgroup.com/news/medicare-faqs/individual-faq?faqId=6a130489-e387-476d-a358-c77cfba68367[/quote]

Yes,just goes to show you how bad the private healthcare is.

http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2011/09/20/medicare-is-more-efficient-than-private-insurance/

28

[quote]rcsermas wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]rcsermas wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]rcsermas wrote:
Is this a shock to anyone? Buy insurance or pay a fine to the government. Everybody wins! Except for the people it’s purported to benefit. Oh, and people previously deemed uninsurable now must be accepted? And where does the money for that come from? Dare I say increased premiums? “But, but, but, the insurance companies have to spend 80% of your premium on health care, or refund the rest!” Yes, and I am sure everyone will see every penny they are owed. You know, since insurance companies have such a history of being honest organizations. People are stupid.[/quote]

The fact that an insurance company can deny someone because they have a condition is immoral. So if a company can’t make any money on these people fuck’em! This should be against the law. The U.S. is the only wealthy industrialized country that has a market-based system for healthcare. Others have some sort of government run healthcare. They pay far less and get better results. So if it’s cost your concerned with then why stick to the U.S. model healthcare? Insurance companies are corporations that find ways to deny claims. In fact the whole industry is a sham. Loaded with white collar criminals.[/quote]

Please. Insurance isn’t charity. Those people should have bothered to get coverage before they fell ill. Now they don’t even have to bother. Just pay the (cheaper) fine until they need coverage, then when they fall seriously ill they are entitled to insurance, and also to fucking the rest of us out of money. I’m not even going to touch socialized healthcare.
[/quote]

You don’t have to touch socialized medicine, it has already proven much more efficient. Medicare for everyone. better service ,better healthcare and lower costs. No price gouging the public. [/quote]

Yes, and all the report of several month waits to get an appointment, or people dying from being either straight up denied or while waiting on treatments are just fantasy. Or that individuals the world over that have the capital to do so frequently come to the US for medical care. Just propaganda spewed forth by those evil capitalists who just want to take your money. [/quote]

Yes and all those other countries are doing it wrong but we are doing it right? More people die overall in the U.S. because of our healthcare systems. More people have to file for bankruptcy because of the costs. Healthcare is the number 1 reason for people going bankrupt. But that is a good system in your eyes. Cutting edge technology? In some cases, but this is only available for the very wealthy - so what. The pharmaceutical companies are keep life altering treatments off the market such as adult stem cell therapies because they can’t patent stem cells. And since these treatments work so much better than their garbage drug cocktails it is a direct economic threat to there bottom line. I say tough shit! Who cares if every pharma co. goes out of business? This country would be a much better place.

Insurance companies routinely and arbitrarily turn claims down that are perfectly valid just to make more money. Theses companies are criminal. VA and other government healthcare services are much better than the criminal outfits that pose as “free marketeers”.

29

Please, just move to Cuba.

I’m sure you will be so much happier there.

30

[quote]2busy wrote:
Please, just move to Cuba.

I’m sure you will be so much happier there.

[/quote]

Or you know… to Canada or Australia or any number of other first world commie countries where “socialized” medicine works well?

31

[quote]phaethon wrote:

[quote]2busy wrote:
Please, just move to Cuba.

I’m sure you will be so much happier there.

[/quote]

Or you know… to Canada or Australia or any number of other first world commie countries where “socialized” medicine works well?[/quote]

Australia is beautiful. And because they have a government run healthcare system they are commies? You are a damn fool who is blinded by his own marriage to an ideology. The overwhelming evidence is that government run healthcare is less expensive and overall has better outcomes. But you can’t see that cause you are a right-wing ideologue who has to mold the truth to fit his ideology instead of the other way around.

32

Look, Zep, you’re a left wing ideologue who molds truth to fit your views.

Let’s just look at this claim.

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
More people die overall in the U.S. because of our healthcare systems.
[/quote]

Really?

The number one cause of death in the US is Cardiovascular issues.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm

What causes Caridovascular disease?

“Atherosclerosis is the most common form of this disorder. Atherosclerosis is also the most common cause of cardiovascular disease, and it’s often caused by an unhealthy diet, lack of exercise, being overweight and smoking. All of these are major risk factors for developing atherosclerosis and, in turn, cardiovascular disease.”

"Causes of heart arrhythmia
Common causes of abnormal heart rhythms (arrhythmias), or conditions that can lead to arrhythmias include:

Heart defects you’re born with (congenital heart defects)
Coronary artery disease
High blood pressure
Diabetes
Smoking
Excessive use of alcohol or caffeine
Drug abuse
Stress
Some over-the-counter medications, prescription medications, dietary supplements and herbal remedies
Valvular heart disease"

From http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/heart-disease/DS01120/DSECTION=causes

So the US Healthcare system is causing people to have eat an unhealthy diet, not exercise, be fat, and smoke?

How about, people are not being responsible for themselves?

You can’t blame Jiffy Lube for your car engine shelling its bearings because you chose to change the oil every 50,000 miles.

I’m convinced you need to move to Cuba. You will be happy there.

And look, it will reduce the amount of stress in your life. You know, that’s one of those factors that can cause heart arrhythmia.

33

A cost comparison to the commie state Canada

A cost comparison to other commie states in the rest of the world

Health in an international perspective.

http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2013/US-Health-in-International-Perspective-Shorter-Lives-Poorer-Health.aspx

34

[quote]2busy wrote:
Look, Zep, you’re a left wing ideologue who molds truth to fit your views.

Let’s just look at this claim.

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
More people die overall in the U.S. because of our healthcare systems.
[/quote]

Really?

The number one cause of death in the US is Cardiovascular issues.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm

What causes Caridovascular disease?

“Atherosclerosis is the most common form of this disorder. Atherosclerosis is also the most common cause of cardiovascular disease, and it’s often caused by an unhealthy diet, lack of exercise, being overweight and smoking. All of these are major risk factors for developing atherosclerosis and, in turn, cardiovascular disease.”

"Causes of heart arrhythmia
Common causes of abnormal heart rhythms (arrhythmias), or conditions that can lead to arrhythmias include:

Heart defects you’re born with (congenital heart defects)
Coronary artery disease
High blood pressure
Diabetes
Smoking
Excessive use of alcohol or caffeine
Drug abuse
Stress
Some over-the-counter medications, prescription medications, dietary supplements and herbal remedies
Valvular heart disease"

From http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/heart-disease/DS01120/DSECTION=causes

So the US Healthcare system is causing people to have eat an unhealthy diet, not exercise, be fat, and smoke?

How about, people are not being responsible for themselves?

You can’t blame Jiffy Lube for your car engine shelling its bearings because you chose to change the oil every 50,000 miles.

I’m convinced you need to move to Cuba. You will be happy there.

And look, it will reduce the amount of stress in your life. You know, that’s one of those factors that can cause heart arrhythmia.[/quote]

I wish I could tell you to move somewhere else but the U.S. is probably the only wealthy nation in the industrialized world that has a market-based healthcare system. Why? Because obviously this is the most effective way to run a healthcare system. Nevermind that we have higher infant mortality rates and overall lower outcomes and spend twice as much as every other country in the world. But hey it’s the free market and it fosters competition that lowers costs for everyone, right?

I agree that Americans need to take control of their health more. But it doesn’t help when you have corporations that purposefully sell junk with a “bliss-point” to help addict people to their garbage foods just to make a buck. Cigarettes? How about the purposeful manipulation of the facts that industry has covered up for decades in order to get people hooked. Do you care and criticize them at all?

35

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
But it doesn’t help when you have corporations that purposefully sell junk with a “bliss-point” to help addict people to their garbage foods just to make a buck. Cigarettes? How about the purposeful manipulation of the facts that industry has covered up for decades in order to get people hooked. Do you care and criticize them at all?
[/quote]

Um… let’s see…

Seems I have known for decades junk food and cigarettes isn’t good for you.

Again, personal responsibility.

And let’s not use the classical “change the subject” bit.

You made a statement as FACT that the US Healthcare system kills people.

It’s your opinion. Nothing more.

Also, I find it interesting you have decided you have the moral authority to decide what’s right or wrong?

What do you base that morality from?

38

The notion that the US is the only wealthy nation with a market-based health care system is a complete joke. Every nation on the planet has a market based healthcare system. Most of them happen to be black or gray market systems, but regardless of the greatness of “free health care”, a willing service provider and a willing service consumer will always arrive at an equitable exchange.

The progressive ignorance displayed by certain folk in this thread is a testament to the effectiveness of lemming-like propaganda.

I have had several clients denied medical services because of the new medicare rules. Another client is a PT and she is seriously concerned about losing her business. My GP is considering expatriating to Central America. If it’s happening in Backwater, USA at this level - I can’t imagine what’s going on in more populous areas of the country.

And all of this is the fault of BarryCare. The term ‘death panel’ is no longer a political scare tactic. It is a reality.

39

[quote]drunkpig wrote:
The notion that the US is the only wealthy nation with a market-based health care system is a complete joke. Every nation on the planet has a market based healthcare system. Most of them happen to be black or gray market systems, but regardless of the greatness of “free health care”, a willing service provider and a willing service consumer will always arrive at an equitable exchange.

The progressive ignorance displayed by certain folk in this thread is a testament to the effectiveness of lemming-like propaganda.

I have had several clients denied medical services because of the new medicare rules. Another client is a PT and she is seriously concerned about losing her business. My GP is considering expatriating to Central America. If it’s happening in Backwater, USA at this level - I can’t imagine what’s going on in more populous areas of the country.

And all of this is the fault of BarryCare. The term ‘death panel’ is no longer a political scare tactic. It is a reality. [/quote]

I agree that there is an unprecedented level of propaganda . However, this comes from news sources that have a financial advantage for not telling the public the truth.

Some countries have a fully run government healthcare system and others have a mix, but to claim that they resemble America’s market-based system is disingenuous.

A market-based system where “willing service consumer will always arrive at an equitable exchange” - now that is a complete joke if I ever heard of one. I’m sure the American consumer loves paying double what everyone else in the world pays. Or wait maybe it’s the fact that medical bills are the leading cause of bankruptcy in our efficient market-based system. I’m sure they were so willing to go that route.

40

[quote]2busy wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
But it doesn’t help when you have corporations that purposefully sell junk with a “bliss-point” to help addict people to their garbage foods just to make a buck. Cigarettes? How about the purposeful manipulation of the facts that industry has covered up for decades in order to get people hooked. Do you care and criticize them at all?
[/quote]

Um… let’s see…

Seems I have known for decades junk food and cigarettes isn’t good for you.

Again, personal responsibility.

And let’s not use the classical “change the subject” bit.

You made a statement as FACT that the US Healthcare system kills people.

It’s your opinion. Nothing more.

Also, I find it interesting you have decided you have the moral authority to decide what’s right or wrong?

What do you base that morality from?[/quote]

The morality ought to fall on the produces of said garbage instead of hiding the truth from the public. You don’t see anything wrong with that ? You don’t see anything wrong with producers seeking to establish a “bliss point” in order to get you addicted to their foods?