[quote]gkchesterton wrote:
Judith Jarvis Thompson[/quote]
Glad to see someone’s on the same page. 
Steely D had a pretty good point, unfortunately, it doesn’t really go with the metaphor.
I’m reading through a Biomedical Ethics book now, and it was part of her (Thomson’s) article, refuting Noonan’s claim that abortion is never justified or permissible. Just curious to see what some of the T-Nationites thought.
Most of the replies were to be expected.
[quote]Michael570 wrote:
SSC wrote:
Is the man responsible for the seed-baby?
Yes. He should have kept his windows shut if he wasn’t prepared to be responsible. He’s an adult. He knows the risks.[/quote]
I would like to add that the farm is equally responsible.
Keep your plants in your pants if you’re not willing to take responsibility for your actions.
The man should’ve used the back door instead.
The breeze flows equally well, and it has a built it screen.
[quote]SSC wrote:
There’s a guy. He lives next to a farm. The farm was constructed and developed a short time after he moves into this house. The company that this farm is propagated by a unique flowering plant grown in only specific areas. The specification of where to grow this plant is largely influenced by wind patterns.
Why?
Because this plant, as you’d have it, happens to produce millions of microscopic seeds. Once the seed is conjoined with some particular fabrics and surfaces, a baby is produced. In this case, carpeting has been found to be one of the more “fertile” combining forms for the people-seeds.
Well, this guy, who lives near the farm, doesn’t care for the idea of having to raise a baby because of a misplaced seed. He buys designer-specific screens, which have a 99.9% success rate of limiting seeds through the special mesh.
Because everyone enjoys a nice breeze (especially during the summertime,) this man opens his windows frequently. He has no problems with seeds coming through the screens, as the screen company promised.
Unfortunately, one night, a small tear in one of the screens allows one single and microscopic seed through.
The next day, the man wakes up, after feeling refreshed from the airflow throughout his house, only to find that there’s a baby being developed on his living room floor.
Is the man responsible for the seed-baby?[/quote]
Wouldn’t it be a bit more honest if the story went that the man, knowing that going ONTO the farm to wallow and rut around in the plants for a thrill could produce a human baby if his bio-hazard suit malfunctioned, did it anways. Caving in any child’s skull before retiring back home for the night?
[quote]SSC wrote:
There’s a guy. He lives next to a farm. The farm was constructed and developed a short time after he moves into this house. The company that this farm is propagated by a unique flowering plant grown in only specific areas. The specification of where to grow this plant is largely influenced by wind patterns.
Why?
Because this plant, as you’d have it, happens to produce millions of microscopic seeds. Once the seed is conjoined with some particular fabrics and surfaces, a baby is produced. In this case, carpeting has been found to be one of the more “fertile” combining forms for the people-seeds.
Well, this guy, who lives near the farm, doesn’t care for the idea of having to raise a baby because of a misplaced seed. He buys designer-specific screens, which have a 99.9% success rate of limiting seeds through the special mesh.
Because everyone enjoys a nice breeze (especially during the summertime,) this man opens his windows frequently. He has no problems with seeds coming through the screens, as the screen company promised.
Unfortunately, one night, a small tear in one of the screens allows one single and microscopic seed through.
The next day, the man wakes up, after feeling refreshed from the airflow throughout his house, only to find that there’s a baby being developed on his living room floor.
Is the man responsible for the seed-baby?[/quote]
I’m not even going to try to play the metaphor game.
Be a man, be there for your child. Marry the woman, make it work & be happy. Assuming one of you is not schitzoid, manic-depressive, excessively angry, or unwilling to work with the other, it’s as easy as that. lemonaid is good. There, I guess I am sport for a metaphor.
Nuts to that. In wearing the condom, the guy is letting his intentions be known; he doesn’t want to be a baby daddy. If he offers to pay for an abortion in the event of a pregnancy, then he’s done all that is required of him.
[quote]Ronsauce wrote:
Nuts to that. In wearing the condom, the guy is letting his intentions be known; he doesn’t want to be a baby daddy. If he offers to pay for an abortion in the event of a pregnancy, then he’s done all that is required of him.[/quote]
Unless she keeps the baby, then he’s in it for life. In that case he may as well make the best of it. Being an angry asshole because she puts the baby ahead of his clear intensions to not be a daddy won’t help anybody, especially the baby.
Okay, fine.
Suppose you wake up one day, attached (through tubing) to someone you don’t recognize.
Some comes from the shadows, and explains that they’re sorry for what they did, but they’re from the Academy of Musicians. It happens that the man you’re plugged in to is, in fact, the world’s most influential violinist, and you have the only type of blood that can sustain his life in the world.
All they ask is that you supply him with blood for 9 months.
Now, it’d be awfully generous of you to provide care for this man, but it is not your responsibility, no?
[quote]SSC wrote:
Okay, fine.
Suppose you wake up one day, attached (through tubing) to someone you don’t recognize.
Some comes from the shadows, and explains that they’re sorry for what they did, but they’re from the Academy of Musicians. It happens that the man you’re plugged in to is, in fact, the world’s most influential violinist, and you have the only type of blood that can sustain his life in the world.
All they ask is that you supply him with blood for 9 months.
Now, it’d be awfully generous of you to provide care for this man, but it is not your responsibility, no?[/quote]
Now I’m confused. Are you the boy or the girl? This analogy sounds like from the girl point of view and it’s not really apples to apples either. Actually this is a lot less commitment, it’s only 9 months. But, in this case, to save someones life, I’d say “ok, but you’re coming along with me, I’m not going with you”
[quote]SSC wrote:
Okay, fine.
Suppose you wake up one day, attached (through tubing) to someone you don’t recognize.
Some comes from the shadows, and explains that they’re sorry for what they did, but they’re from the Academy of Musicians. It happens that the man you’re plugged in to is, in fact, the world’s most influential violinist, and you have the only type of blood that can sustain his life in the world.
All they ask is that you supply him with blood for 9 months.
Now, it’d be awfully generous of you to provide care for this man, but it is not your responsibility, no?[/quote]
That’s a metaphor for rape. There wasn’t consent. Different situation.
[quote]Ronsauce wrote:
Nuts to that. In wearing the condom, the guy is letting his intentions be known; he doesn’t want to be a baby daddy. If he offers to pay for an abortion in the event of a pregnancy, then he’s done all that is required of him.[/quote]
Are you aware that condoms can fail?
[quote]SSC wrote:
Okay, fine.
Suppose you wake up one day, attached (through tubing) to someone you don’t recognize.
Some comes from the shadows, and explains that they’re sorry for what they did, but they’re from the Academy of Musicians. It happens that the man you’re plugged in to is, in fact, the world’s most influential violinist, and you have the only type of blood that can sustain his life in the world.
All they ask is that you supply him with blood for 9 months.
Now, it’d be awfully generous of you to provide care for this man, but it is not your responsibility, no?[/quote]
How come your abortion scenarios don’t involve people knowingly enaging in acts that produce another human life? Acts they have the capacity to avoid with little to no harm to normal function? In these scenarios, it’s like everyone just wakes up and, shazam!, they’re pregnant with seed babies and violinists. They’re the victims of pollution, or the victims of involuntary medical procedures.
You bet. Hence the abortion.
Though if the woman is on birth control as well, which she should be if pregnancy isn’t desired, the chance of conceiving is pretty marginal(despite how everyone seems to know a friend of a friend who got pregnant despite at least three kind of bc being using along with the dude pulling out).
So you’re saying if I open my window I will get laid?