Buuuuuutttt don’t females also have different uniform requirements than males? What are your thoughts on that and if acceptable, how do you rectify that with your thoughts on these new regulations?
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
If 2 or 3 Marines don’t have to shave, but I have to shave everyday, including when I’m off duty, I’m going to probably resent those Marines. Some will take it beyond simple resentment and the command isn’t immune to it either.
[/quote]
Or there is an alternative option, which is sacking up and accepting that these guys aren’t doing this because they “just don’t want to” but because their deeply held religious convictions mandate it and realize that shaving really isn’t an undue burden on you. You are a marine, not a 3rd grader.[/quote]
In the fiction section again ?
Muslims in California pray for rain because of the current drought, and I have no doubt that you respect their deeply religious beliefs.
But if Catholics prayed for rain, oh the gold we would hear from you.
[/quote]
Shhhhh adults are talking about the actual thread topic, not rain dances. This is not a catholic witch hunt…
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Buuuuuutttt don’t females also have different uniform requirements than males? What are your thoughts on that and if acceptable, how do you rectify that with your thoughts on these new regulations?[/quote]
I’ve said on here before I don’t think women should be in the military.
That said, in the Marine Corps there is no difference in the camouflage utilities uniform. The dress uniforms have subtle differences, but they are still uniform along gender lines. So you have the same issue, some women would be uniform and some would not. Jewelry, make-up, etc… all have standards. You can’t wear giant hoop earring, a cross, star of David, etc… in uniform as far as I know. I don’t remember female regs off the top of my head as it wasn’t much of an issue for me.
But doesn’t it bother you that females are allowed to dress differently than the men in the unit? Independent of the fact that you don’t want them there, should they be allowed to dress differently than the men? How do they manage to fight together without being home legion of androgenous Storm Troopers or Foot Soldiers?
And BTW they are not uniform along gender lines because sometimes some members of a unit are pregnant while others aren’t. They will this have different uniform requirements. Remember it was their choice to get pregnant…
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
If 2 or 3 Marines don’t have to shave, but I have to shave everyday, including when I’m off duty, I’m going to probably resent those Marines. Some will take it beyond simple resentment and the command isn’t immune to it either.
[/quote]
Or there is an alternative option, which is sacking up and accepting that these guys aren’t doing this because they “just don’t want to” but because their deeply held religious convictions mandate it and realize that shaving really isn’t an undue burden on you. You are a marine, not a 3rd grader.[/quote]
In the fiction section again ?
Muslims in California pray for rain because of the current drought, and I have no doubt that you respect their deeply religious beliefs.
But if Catholics prayed for rain, oh the gold we would hear from you.
[/quote]
Shhhhh adults are talking about the actual thread topic, not rain dances. This is not a catholic witch hunt…
[/quote]
Nice dodge.
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
But doesn’t it bother you that females are allowed to dress differently than the men in the unit? Independent of the fact that you don’t want them there, should they be allowed to dress differently than the men? How do they manage to fight together without being home legion of androgenous Storm Troopers or Foot Soldiers?[/quote]
Well they don’t fight in their dress uniform, so in your scenario they are uniform. They wear the exact same camouflage utilities.
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
And BTW they are not uniform along gender lines because sometimes some members of a unit are pregnant while others aren’t. They will this have different uniform requirements. Remember it was their choice to get pregnant…[/quote]
Pregnancy is one of the reasons I think women shouldn’t be in the military.
I don’t know how else to answer. Yes, they will have different standards. That isn’t up to me, if it was, it wouldn’t be an issue.
VT, not to go completely off topic, but does this mean you are okay with religious organizations opting out of the individual contraception mandate of the ACA?
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
And BTW they are not uniform along gender lines because sometimes some members of a unit are pregnant while others aren’t. They will this have different uniform requirements. Remember it was their choice to get pregnant…[/quote]
You can’t shave a belly off. Life happens sometimes. When pregnant they all wear the designated uniform (running suit). Sometimes people get hurt and have to wear a boot or a sling. They are still in uniform and there is no enmity because there was no alternative to their situation. You can shave a beard and take off a turban. There are Muslims in the military that can deal with shaving and wearing the correct headgear. Anybody who says they have to wear a turban is somebody who isn’t fit for military service. I would not serve with him.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
VT, not to go completely off topic, but does this mean you are okay with religious organizations opting out of the individual contraception mandate of the ACA?[/quote]
Yes because I don’t have to have everything in black or white to.make sense of it.
[quote]johngalt191 wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
And BTW they are not uniform along gender lines because sometimes some members of a unit are pregnant while others aren’t. They will this have different uniform requirements. Remember it was their choice to get pregnant…[/quote]
You can’t shave a belly off. Life happens sometimes. When pregnant they all wear the designated uniform (running suit). Sometimes people get hurt and have to wear a boot or a sling. They are still in uniform and there is no enmity because there was no alternative to their situation. You can shave a beard and take off a turban. There are Muslims in the military that can deal with shaving and wearing the correct headgear. Anybody who says they have to wear a turban is somebody who isn’t fit for military service. I would not serve with him.
[/quote]
But if uniformity is so important–even a life or death situation–should these pregnant women and such even be allowed to remain int he Marines?
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
And BTW they are not uniform along gender lines because sometimes some members of a unit are pregnant while others aren’t. They will this have different uniform requirements. Remember it was their choice to get pregnant…[/quote]
Pregnancy is one of the reasons I think women shouldn’t be in the military.
I don’t know how else to answer. Yes, they will have different standards. That isn’t up to me, if it was, it wouldn’t be an issue. [/quote]
I don’t know about not having woman in the military for just that reason. There are plenty of jobs that suit woman. But you could always tell which units were getting ready to deploy by the increasing number of pregnant females.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Beards were permitted for three of the four years I served; IMO…there was no impact on command effectiveness or moral.
[/quote]
I agree with you here. From what I understand, the new rules will only allow certain individuals to have a beard. [/quote]
And that doesn’t make much sense to me. Yet I don’t read the article as the omg end of times for the military. To me the article said the military has decided it may make some changes regarding the way it makes certain decisions. In those cases military people will decide what is appropriate and what is not appropriate.
I don’t see why this has to be a horrible thing at this point based off just the information I gave above. I don’t see the military as allowing me to serve with a giant top hat, gold cane, and a super soaker if I say those are relics of my religion and I must serve with them like some people seem to be suggesting. [/quote]
Look at it this way. You require your football players all to wear a shirt and tie on game days (to be uniform). Several mothers, who have never played a team sport, complain that it’s their kid doesn’t like/own a shirt and tie. So the athletic department tells you, the coach, to let the kids wear whatever they want. You tell the team, “If you get a note from you mother you don’t have to wear a shirt and tie.” So now you have some kids in short sleeves, some in long sleeves, some in shirt and tie, and the kids forced to wear shirt and tie are pissed at the other kids who’s mother complained. Not to mention, whether you mean to or not, you probably thing differently of certain kids now.
That’s not a perfect example (it’s not a good example really at all), but you see my point right? No matter how small you as the coach want to avoid any crack in team cohesion. You want your team to be one.
The only differnce between that and the military is that unit cohesion is much more important in the military. If 2 or 3 Marines don’t have to shave, but I have to shave everyday, including when I’m off duty, I’m going to probably resent those Marines. Some will take it beyond simple resentment and the command isn’t immune to it either.
My main issue is really boot camp. Drill Instructors already have a hard enough time instilling discipline and unit cohesion, now you’re adding yet another challenge. [/quote]
All I’ve read on the topic is that article. I didn’t see ANYTHING in the article that said Buddhists and Muslims and other religions will be allowed to do whatever they want. All I read was that the military said they may make certain exceptions in certain situations as they see fit.
I “trust” the military is going to make decisions that are in the best interest of the military. I have no idea how anyone could read that article and come to some of the conclusions people are coming to.
From a unit cohesion perspective I get that everyone being the same is ideal. From a logic standpoint if you allow cross necklaces you need to allow other religious stuff (AS LONG AS IT DOESN’T DECREASE SAFETY). Again, if Christianity is ok then so are the other religions.
If that ISN’T the case then we don’t have religious freedom and this isn’t America home of the constitution.
Seems as if some in this thread (not really you) only want rights for what they are cool with. And I have absolutely no idea how some people are coming to the conclusion that this is a massive deal. I think a lot of people are just inventing crazy things that the article did not say.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
If 2 or 3 Marines don’t have to shave, but I have to shave everyday, including when I’m off duty, I’m going to probably resent those Marines. Some will take it beyond simple resentment and the command isn’t immune to it either.
[/quote]
Or there is an alternative option, which is sacking up and accepting that these guys aren’t doing this because they “just don’t want to” but because their deeply held religious convictions mandate it and realize that shaving really isn’t an undue burden on you. You are a marine, not a 3rd grader.[/quote]
Yep.
No young kid would ever use his religion as a pretense to get away with wearing jewelry, a certain hairstyle or facial hair.
Never happen when everyone is such a devout believer.[/quote]
Yup and unit commanders, and fellow service members, certainly aren’t smart enough to sniff that out and nip it in the bud REAL quick.
Don’t be an idiot and pretend like somebody actually believes there won’t be anyone trying to take advantage of the situation. That you think somebody thinks that kinda tells me you are literally (lol) talking out of your ass.
As far as my service record, that is none of your fucking business.
[quote]H factor wrote:
I “trust” the military is going to make decisions that are in the best interest of the military. I have no idea how anyone could read that article and come to some of the conclusions people are coming to.
[/quote]
Ding ding ding. This isn’t some edict from Obama that all Muslims shall be able to do what they want, unit cohesion be damned. It puts the decision to make certain exceptions for ALL RELIGIONS at the LOCAL level if the commanding officer determines it will not undermine the safety and readiness of the unit.
Nothing to see here, move along lol
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
I “trust” the military is going to make decisions that are in the best interest of the military. I have no idea how anyone could read that article and come to some of the conclusions people are coming to.
[/quote]
Ding ding ding. This isn’t some edict from Obama that all Muslims shall be able to do what they want, unit cohesion be damned. It puts the decision to make certain exceptions for ALL RELIGIONS at the LOCAL level if the commanding officer determines it will not undermine the safety and readiness of the unit.
Nothing to see here, move along lol [/quote]
In fairness I don’t think usmcs has really said anything ground breakingly bad that I don’t agree with. I just don’t see how some people (not him) are acting as if according to this article the end of the United States military is nigh.
I was actually thinking out loud. Is there a part of this article I’m missing? Because it sounds like the article just said the military will make decisions for itself and it may change the way it used to view some of those decisions in certain cases. Then all of the sudden OP loses his mind about it. I guess I’m still failing to see the big deal. I would have no problem if the military did nothing in the sake of unit cohesion. I’m also a team leader and that makes sense.
Rights for some and not others is what doesn’t make sense. Like I said logically it seems like all or none is the only real stance to take.