The problem with a lot of the illegals we have is honesty and entitlement. I run a small company and I have over 100 blue collar workers that work for me. It’s a very diverse workforce. They are all citizens. Some are smart, honest and hard working. Others are not and can’t wait to get laid off when it’s cold. They feel like they are entitled to a standard of living here. That’s the problem.
As to tax cuts. I think it has been proven that they stimulate the economy. By both Republicans and Democrats. I am one of those people that was referenced in previous posts. I know I spent my tax rebates. Spent them the same week I got them. It was found money. I am sure that stimulated the economy. After all it’s my money not theirs. I’ll also say this. As an employer every cost the city or state puts on me costs jobs. Every cost they take off my back makes me ad people. It’s simple really. The complicated part is the politics off it all.
SteelyEyes and P-Dog: Count me amongst the guys who’ll pay more for strawberries and lettuce in exchange for lower payouts for welfare, housing, healthcare, prison beds, etc.
Sure, it’s nice to get cheap labor, even if we have to turn our eyes away from the fact that we’re allowing millions to thumb their noses at our nation’s laws.
The problem is, all of the benefits this country accrues via the influx of cheap (and illegal) foreign workers is more than offset by their drain on our economy over their lifetime. Sure, they contribute between the ages of 18 and 45 (plus or minus). But what happens when they’re injured, become disabled/sick, bring in their illegal and often unemployable family members (the elderly, women and their children, etc.)? Then you get a bunch of families living off the taxes of native Americans, be it through outright welfare or more insidious means like acquiring free health care via emergency rooms or filling up jails when they resort to petty crimes and/or drug distribution in order to earn the extra money they need.
Besides, I’ve always liked the idea of a market economy. I’m just a wacky capitalist, I suppose. Let’s make sure the people who enter into our economy are entitled to be there, let the market decide what is a fair wage, and let the consumer determine what they’re willing to pay for a product.
But I suppose we live in an age when adhering to the law is viewed as merely an option, so maybe this viewpoint doesn’t mean all that much…
i dont think you guys understand. American citizens WILL NOT DO farm labor period!
farming is in my family, my entire family makes a living via farming. i have worked many years out in the orchards, driving tractor. in about 10 years of working out there i saw one white man and one black man out there. know how long they lasted? less than one day!
it is bust ass work that 99.9% of Americans wouldnt do regardless of pay. oh yeah and did i mention they make peanuts, unless they bust their asses non stop for 10-12 hours. peace work aint easy.
if we did not have these immigrats we would not eat!
IMO, the problems surrounding legal/illegal immigration cannot be solved by either of the two extreme opinions which most people allude to (which are: deport them all OR keep them all here).
a good argument for keeping illegals here is that there are certain sectors that are highly dependent on cheap labor and they prosper only if illegals are around.
a good argument for deporting illegals is that the nation is going through uncertain times and is in need of greater control over its borders.
can’t we have something in between? i think so. others do too. no need to make over-generalizations to support extreme ideologies.
what’s wrong with a partial amnesty and/or a temporary worker program as proposed by bush, fox and others? clearly, if economists and policymakers think the idea has merit, then it’s probably worth considering.
for those who are totally convinced that illegals mess up our economy, consider this: let’ say we deport ALL illegals to mexico and their respective countries. what will happen in mexico, let’s see… 30% unemployment! GNP halts because no one is sending in remittances! instant recession/depression in mexico. demand for US goods by mexicans: zero; US GDP noticeably down because one of our biggest trade partners is bleeding profusely. value of the peso relative the dollar: nosedives. real wages in mexico reach rock bottom lows. US enterprises see cheap labor and increased profits if production moves to mexico. production moves south. US GNP goes down. US unemployment goes up. US GDP goes down.
my point: drastic measure lead to drastic backlashes. in effect you shoot yourself in the foot.
those who want to blame the state of our economy on illegals should look to chinese economic policy, specifically the problems with intellectual property and obstructions to free trade. (and i dont mean, blame ALL chinese. i mean blame the few communist leaders that implement policy). leave the mexicans alone already.
I live in Nebraska. (Just 45 minutes from Cy Wilson.) And every spring hundreds of kids run out to the cornfields and detassle. Many quit, but many keep it up. You cannot say that Americans won’t do the work, when I see teens do it every year.
I also read of a farmer that decided not to go into debt buying all of that farm equipment, and just hired people at $15 an hour (and this was 12 years ago,) and was making a killing just because he didn’t buy all that equipment.
Oh yeah. Are you one of those people taking advantage of Illegals and paying them a $2 an hour?
I would have to agree with most of the list. I don?t believe that illegal immigrants should have any rights (Drivers licenses) or be eligible for welfare or medical assistance from the government. I will now give my philosophy on how to save/improve the US.
1.Deport all illegal immigrants.
2.Increase penalties for hiring illegal immigrants (i.e. forfeit property owned by individual or business).
3.Stop Welfare (I realize this would take time)
4.Revamp prison system:
A.No rehabilitation for repeat offenders.
B.No Gyms
C.No Libraries
D.No Educational courses
E.Clear out Death Row (Max. 6 month wait before throwing the switch.)
5.Stop Federal Assistance to foreign countries
6.Stop affirmative action
This is just for starters. We have churches and other non-profits to assist people with their needs.
this is my first post, just thought i might have a little to contribute with an undergrad degree in econ and an A- locked in in my econ class this quarter for my MBA. not bragging, i am a bit of an underacheiver at econ, after all.
i’ll get to a point after a little intro: the thing i loved about econ was that there was so much analysis “on the margin,” meaning, the next unit of production costs ?? sells for ?? etc. and the essence of the whole art/science is that people only produce a unit of anything or consume a unit of anything if the marginal cost is less than the marginal benefit.
how i see this as directly applicable to the above discussion is that government can reduce the marginal cost of things (think government provided social/welfare svcs) to people, and this should cause those receiving the goods at low cost to value them less, use more, waste, etc.
also adding taxes to those producing anything (be it widgets or labor for da man) increases their marginal cost, and thereby decreases the value of those units of production, meaning that these will be valued less, meaning less will be produced.
people allocate the cheapest resources (including personal labor) to the most “gainful” use first, then the next cheapest resources are used to produce the next most profitable outcome, and so on.
the point is that tax and spend do tend to “misallocate” resources, allocating now devalued resources to less profitable uses, and resulting in less wealth for everyone.
shite, sorry that comes out so long.
anyway, this has huge implications for those who believe in a welfare state and things that cause overconsumption, and LIKEWISE for those who believe that we should close borders, do other things which limit resource transfer.
My,my.Seems as though there is some polarity of views on some of the topics brought forth by Savage.
Just my two cents worth,but something to remember b/c they are facts. For those that tout the Europeans,you may be interested to find that they couldn’t even agree on a constitution for the Economic Union.They all fought like spoiled children,picked up their toys and went home,this past Friday.And please,don’t start with the old"well this is all new to them"argument.
Speaking two(at least) languages in Europe.You damn well better be able to.Considering you can drive to several different countries in the course of one day,depending on the starting point.This is simply a function of their geography,not a superior linguistic ability.You have to make a concerted effort to come to the U.S.,and as snotty as this may sound to some of you,if you are going to stay,please,as a courtesy to your adopted country,and yourself,learn the language.Nothing but good will befall someone who learns English.This is one thing someone can do that won’t cause cancer,have any adverse side effects,and can only help them in their daily life.How many other things can do the same. Like I said,just my two cents.