Doogie and Larry, it must be nice to live in that simple and perfect place you found.
Check out the chart on the link I posted earlier, http://www.cbpp.org/4-29-03bud.htm. The projected cost in 2004 of the tax cuts is $310 billion, 58% of the $515B deficit. Who is going to pay for this? How? When? All I’m saying is that Shrub maybe should have thought some of that through first. But as we’re witnessing in Iraq, thinking things through isn’t part of his game plan.
“if you don’t like it, you can geeeeet out”. Mr.McCormick aka stans dad
oh
my
GOD!
tax cuts don’t cost money!!! they MAKE money!
say it with me…tax cuts don’t cost money. tax cuts don’t cost money. tax cuts don’t cost money.
Morg, “tax cuts make money” is not an axiom, it’s a distortion. The immediate effect of a tax cut is lost government revenue. The second effect may be more revenue via increased consumer spending, but statistics only show this to happen when the cuts include the middle class.
If you want the government smaller on principle, which means less taxes, fine, but don’t delude yourself about basic economics just to feel more comfortable.
there’s no place like home, there’s no place like home.
tme,
With all due respect, that perfect place you refer to is simply the land of modern economic theory. People way smarter than you and me have worked this stuff out and it works… see the 9% growth in the economy. Even the Ivy leagues teach this stuff in their economic programs. Look at the boom economy we had through the 80’s and 90’s. I’m not making this stuff up. It’s not my idea, its just the way it is. I can almost here you gearing up to talk about the recession in the early 90’s and more recently. This is the business cycle. I hope you can see that. There will always be short term downturns in the economy.
tax cuts don’t cost money!!! they MAKE money!
Yeah, it’s that whole “trickle-down” theory thing. Didn’t work the first time, either.
http://uweb.txstate.edu/~bs09/trickle-down.jpg
“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results” – Albert Einstein
I’ve worked beside illegal immigrants. I worked for a guy whose family orginally immigrated here illegally and then settled. I’m not sure of the legal crap but he managed to join the Navy and was a US citizen.
We don’t need to deport them. We need to change the damn law so they can easily come here to work. Some come, make money, send it home, and eventually leave. Others come here and eventually stay and become a part of the fabric of our communities. Only one of all of my great-grandparents were born on this continent. Whether their immigration was legal or not is really just a paperwork thing.
An older guy I know hires mostly Mexicans to work in his furniture factory. He helps them do the paperwork to get legal status and is an all around up and up guy. Other guys in his area hire illegals with a different intent. They pay lower wages, pay no L&I, or any of the other things you’d have to do if the worker was legal and knew their rights. A worker loses his thumb on the jump saw? Give him a bus ticket and tell him to go away and hire another.
Those American citizens like that are the fucking felons. A guy looking for an honest days work to feed his family shouldn’t be considered a criminal because he had the bad luck to be born across some imaginary line.
I think the primary language of instruction should be English but I also thing ESL classes should be offered as well.
I like low taxes but making anything permanent will bite you in the ass. Things change and sometimes you have to come up with some money. We have a say in things and when the people get pissed enough things do happen so I don’t think we need to be chiseling shit in stone for millenia.
Less Federal employees? Cool, cut some programs and the employees are gone. They’ll have to dig up another job. You can bet it won’t be picking lettuce next to an illegal migrant though.
Has anyone read “Mexifornia” by Victor Davis Hanson?
“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results” – Albert Einstein
sooo - when you liberals gonna stop thinking that tax increases boost the economy? i guess this huge recovery just came out of nowhere. cause there’s no way that bush with his fuzzy math fascist policies could do any good!!! lol go ahead and make up history, too, about reagan. you guys are just like that “documentary” on reagan that never made it out - can’t get shit straight and try to paint people as bad with your made up shit.
how about this…if the government needs more money, then be more efficient like any business would have to be!!! become like a business in that respect and you won’t need money. don’t come to me begging for money cause your government ass needs $7 to spend $10.
let’s not forget that many of the “rich” are actually small business owners that aren’t truely rich. if these people get breaks, then it shows through business. it’s very simple.
i’m waiting to hear about how this huge recovery happened. because it sure wasn’t bush and his tax cuts!
perfect example of how liberals expect to solve things: port authority is seeing a lack of people using their buses, so in order to make up for this lack of business, they cut service and increase cost. seriously. it happened.
Morg, and others have hit the nail on the head! When you over tax you short change the economy which has a deleterious effect on the entire country.
The more people that work, the more tax dollars are paid. You have a broader base of people paying taxes. If taxes rise to an unrealistic level, entrepreneurs do not have the money to create new business. Existing corporations do not have the money to expand. This minimizes that broad tax base that otherwise would have been created.
While raising taxes does work in the short term, as it creates instant wealth for a multitude of government programs, it harms the economy long term stifling business, which negatively effects the tax base and also causes higher unemployment.
Some of you need to get rid of the notion that “all corporations are evil”. And “all wealthy people are bad”. If it were not for the “wealthy corporations” and all of the “nasty rich guys” the economy would tumble quickly.
Have you ever heard of a poor person hiring someone to work for them? Does not IBM and other major corporations have thousands of employees working for them? Are these people evil as well? Of course not, regardless of how much they make. They are hard working men and women who count on their corporation or entrepreneurial boss to pay them every week.
Is it such a stretch to believe that if those who employ us are financially harmed, by excessive taxes, that we too, as employees will also be harmed financially in some way, either through lay offs or reduced benefits?
Never listen to the politicians who seek to divide by class! We, as a nation, either sink or swim together. The fact remains that when there is more money in the hands of those who create jobs, more people work, thus creating jobs and a larger tax base!
ok, so whether you are for or against the bush tax cuts is irrelevant, but if memory serves me correctly, Bush cut the tax rate from what was carried over from the clinton administration (someone please correct me if i am screwing this up), which as most ppl know was one of the most prosperous administrations of our time. Now in Bush’s case the tax cut failed miserably, go figure, its Bush. But, and here I go trying to pull on economics i took a while ago, it can increase the economy under the right circumstances. Namely ppl spending it in the right manner and a whole bunch of other things, but it gets screwed up when ppl save the money or whatever, I really forget all the find details. Anyways, i personally think there are better ways at improving the economy and tax cuts are not one of them (unless you want to boost your approval ratings that is)
Remember the dot com boom? Lots of money getting made without a lot behind it. I remember a Harvard business school prof saying that most of the dot com business proposals she saw looked great if you wanted to start a nonprofit corporation. Lots of good ideas of things to do but no way to make a buck on it.
Despite this, people had an investing frenzy and the NASDAQ shot through the roof and made a lot of people a lot of money. Those people spent some of this money and most of the economic sectors got some of it.
This had NOTHING to do with Clinton’s tax changes. The fact the whole house of cards fell down had to do with gravity not GWs tax cuts.
You may not remember Jimmy Carter but he got fucked by OPEC. We had double digit inflation, wage and price freezes, and a bunch of other belt tightening. None of this was due ot his tax strategy or lack thereof. The big economic factors are outside the control of the President or just about anyone else sometimes. Tax philosophy is a ripple on the back of a wave from somewhere else.
Ren
The economy was good under Clinton, despite Clinton. I’m not saying that Clinton’s economic plan was good or bad, I’m simply saying that there were other forces driving the great economy that Clinton presided over. The technology boom and the long period of relative peace made for a great economy. He did raise taxes a bit but there is no universal best tax rate. Check out the Laffer curve for an explanation of why this is so. Tax rates are a tool for collecting revenue and secondarily, manipulating the economy.
If the economy is going well, people are making money, jobs are plentiful and consumer confidence is high, then raising tax rates a bit will not have much of a negative effect on the economy. During the 90’s we had a great economy - money was being made with relative ease. As a result a slightly higher tax rate did not have a negative effect on the economy. However, it would have if the economy was struggling out of a recession.
The bottom line is that the tax rates are a very powerful tool for economic policy and should be raised and lowered as needed to balance the needs of the treasury and the economy.
if we didnt have illegal aliens in this country, we wouldnt eat!
We sure wouldn’t eat salad or fruit anyway. Come to think of it a lot of the cowboys I’ve seen pushing range cattle are Mexicans too.
I just noticed the original post said we needed to “save the country”…what a bunch of alarmist bullshit.
SteelyEyes,
I think from reading posts that you've made now and in the past, I feel we'd probably agree on many things politically.
You should seriously give Savage's show a chance. There is much more to him than his 8-point program. He's a very unique individual and people will often hear what he says but not actually understand the meaning behind it. Ironically, he has many liberals who listen to his show that call in, often agreeing with him.
His show starts at 6:00 o'clock central time, Monday through Friday.
Dustin
There is no such thing as a tax cut, when you are increasing spending.
All you are doing is passing the bill for another generation to pay.
Understand we are just running up a incredibly huge bill on your kids’ credit cards. Just paying interest on the debt we are running up is going to be a bitch.
Some of you guys need to re-think your rhetoric that “liberals want big taxes, and Republicans want to cut taxes”. We are going to pay massive taxes, later on down the line. Someone is going to have to pay for all the runaway spending that the so-called fiscal conservatives are doing.
On big accomplishment of the Clinton years was balancing the federal budget. Conservatives USED to think it was important to spend within our means… what happened?
Who has ever heard of a tax cut in a time of war? It is unprecendented. All we are doing is postponing the pain, but adding a huge amount of interest onto the tab.
Most of the tax breaks are going to big oil and big energy companies. What about the big corpartions that have moved their mailboxes offshore, to avoid paying taxes? What about all the tax breaks for Enron? Why aren’t those guys in jail already?
Keep repeating: This is not a tax cut, it is a tax postponement.
Lumpy,
How do you know that the tax cut is only going to the big oil companies and big energiy companies? It’s my job to read the tax code and I have never seen language that says the tax cuts only go for big oil companies and energy companies.
As far as companies who move off shore go, they have to pay the difference between the foreign tax rate and the US tax rate if they are doing business in the US, so they aren’t getting off any easier.
CLinton presided over a great time in the US. He saw the benefit of the cold war dividend, that is, he could get away with major military cuts because the cold war was over. Also, we had a kick ass economy that produced huge tax revenues. Clinton, to his credit did balance the bugdet and I think that was great.
I agree that the government spending is out of control. McCain is right, congress is spending like a drunken sailor. However, a certain amount of government spending is usually necessary during a recession, same with tax cuts.
I’m not sure what you mean by a tax postponement. It is not inevitable that taxes will have to be raised to pay off all we are spendiing now. Although, it is inevitable that taxes will go up and down as need to fund the treasury and stimulate the economy.
If Congress will cut back on spending and we get a nice period of economic prosperity the way we did in the 80s and 90s then the tax base should grow sufficiently to pay down the deficit and balance the budget. This is what happened under Clinton’s watch.
Anyway, cutting taxes and low interst rates has clearly gotten our economy moving again. Raising taxes during a recession would be insane.
Memo:
Illegal alien means illegal. Against the law. Punishable. Prohibited. Not legal.
Break the law, suffer the consequence, pay the price, kick 'em the hell out.
I understand the cheap farm labor, etc. but they broke the law!
Go back, fill out the proper paperwork and do it the right way (like so many millions of your forefathers have), and then we’ll welcome you with open arms.
