Paternity Testing

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:
The law considers what is in the best interest of the child.

I think it basically varies between jurisdictions, but yes, there are cases where a non-biological ‘father’ has been required to pay child support.[/quote]

Which is massively fucked up.[/quote]

So… You meet a girl and fall in love. She has a 3 year old from a dead beat that has vanished.

You marry the woman, and live with her and raise the 3 year old together for 7 years and then split from the mother.

Would it be “massively fucked up” for you to provide for the child that, unless you suck as a person, sees you as their father?[/quote]

It is massively fucked up that my money would be taken from me by the state and given to a woman who probably left me (70% of divorce is initiated by women) who does not have to spend it on the child. Yes, that is epically, retardedly fucked up. I would of course continue to be a father and a role model to any child I had helped raised, but when and how I chose to do so would be up to me, in a just system, not up to the state. But then I don’t date single moms, so this will never be my problem.

Another thought, if I fell into your hypothetical, do I get guaranteed visitation with this child who sees me as it’s father? Guaranteed as in, if the mother tries to obstruct my right to spend time with “my” child, will the cops show up and slap the cuffs on her?

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:
The law considers what is in the best interest of the child.

I think it basically varies between jurisdictions, but yes, there are cases where a non-biological ‘father’ has been required to pay child support.[/quote]

Which is massively fucked up.[/quote]

So… You meet a girl and fall in love. She has a 3 year old from a dead beat that has vanished.

You marry the woman, and live with her and raise the 3 year old together for 7 years and then split from the mother.

Would it be “massively fucked up” for you to provide for the child that, unless you suck as a person, sees you as their father?[/quote]

It is massively fucked up that my money would be taken from me by the state and given to a woman who probably left me (70% of divorce is initiated by women) who does not have to spend it on the child. Yes, that is epically, retardedly fucked up. I would of course continue to be a father and a role model to any child I had helped raised, but when and how I chose to do so would be up to me, in a just system, not up to the state. But then I don’t date single moms, so this will never be my problem.

Another thought, if I fell into your hypothetical, do I get guaranteed visitation with this child who sees me as it’s father? Guaranteed as in, if the mother tries to obstruct my right to spend time with “my” child, will the cops show up and slap the cuffs on her?

[/quote]

I saw a b-movie last night (I do not recommend it unless you like the taste of vomit) called “Black Angels”…about these three black women who go around town beating up and holding guns to the heads of guys who hadn’t paid child support (you know…“super heroes”). Mind you, every guy they ran across was secretly living in a mansion filled with hookers who had tons of CASH on them.

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
It is massively fucked up that my money would be taken from me by the state and given to a woman who probably left me (70% of divorce is initiated by women) who does not have to spend it on the child. Yes, that is epically, retardedly fucked up.[/quote]

You obviously don’t have any kids. Lets keep this to a discussion of the majority, as all the horror stories everyone wants to tell, are the minority.

With that in mind, you cannot raise a child without spending “baby daddies support money” on the child. It is a fuckign ludicrous idea that some woman is going to take all of your support checks, put them in a separate savings account where she draws on to buy new pumps once a week.
Life isn’t a Kanye West song. Plus having kids doesn’t work like that.

Rent and food for the child is expensive, and she is paying for that, whether the $ comes “directly from your support check” or not. Fuck me sideways when he wants $100 sneakers, and grow out of his fucking jeans every 3 months. How about medical bills, prescriptions. Braces, you have any fucking idea how much braces cost? Nope, she doesn’t have to spend “your money” on the kid.

Funny part is, when you are still married it is never “your money” it is your families and your child’s money. Once the couple split, dads always get so fucking annoyingly up-tight about “their money”. DON’T HAVE FUCKING KIDS PEOPLE IF YOU AREN’T READY TO PAY FOR IT EMOTIONALLY AND PHYSICALLY FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

Just be careful, constantly fighting and bitching and moaning about the money you send the kid’s mom, is being a shit fucking role model, and makes the kid feel like a bill.

Do I think you (an others) have legitimate claims that the system isn’t perfect? Sure. But allowing your child to turn into a bill isn’t going to solve a damn thing.

Yeah, fuck that, damaged goods. Right? lol.

[quote]Another thought, if I fell into your hypothetical, do I get guaranteed visitation with this child who sees me as it’s father? Guaranteed as in, if the mother tries to obstruct my right to spend time with “my” child, will the cops show up and slap the cuffs on her?

[/quote]

lol, the majority of divorces and separations are NOT the horror stories you have heard and are about to hear more of after this post in this thread, and from every father who sees their child as a bill.

BUt sure, in my hypothetical, your rights won’t get trampled.

but…

Just like everyone else in these conversations all you give a fuck about is:

  1. Your money
  2. Your crazy Ex gets what she deserves
  3. Your rights are upheld

The child is always a second or third thought it seems.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Just like everyone else in these conversations all you give a fuck about is:

  1. Your money
  2. Your crazy Ex gets what she deserves
  3. Your rights are upheld

The child is always a second or third thought it seems.[/quote]

This is really the point I’m trying to make.

Yeah the system isn’t perfect.
Yeah some women are filthy whores.
Yeah some dudes are deadbeat fags.
Yeah some people are shit parents.
Yeah some people are vindictive assholes
yeah there are major stereotypes and bullshit beliefs about the subject

No one ever seems to care more about the child than themselves or their ex or the system or some other bullshit that will be irrelevant in a couple years…

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Just like everyone else in these conversations all you give a fuck about is:
[/quote]

Aren’t you presumptuous. First, drop the hysteria, and try to remember that we’re having a discussion about men being forced to pay for kids that aren’t theirs.

Now here’s what I give a fuck about:

1- My rights as a father (if I ever become one) and human being.

Since when did I become a third class citizen? Oh yeah, when I turned 18.

And blow your hypotheticals out of your ass. I’ve had friends locked up for back child support, because they lost their old job and the only one they could find paid just above minimum wage. I’ve had friends legally barred from going to the house they’re still paying for, while some other guy fucks his ex and spends all the quality time with the children my friend only gets to see every other weekend. Ooops! Better call in the mods, your highness banned horror stories from the discussion! But that’s not a story. It’s a real human being’s life.

As to all of your shit about how much it costs to raise a kid, the problem with our current system is, if baby’s momma is buying the kid $10 shoes from walmart that don’t fit very well and spend the rest on $150 hair and nails for herself, the father, who is paying the bills, HAS NO LEGAL RECOURSE. The courts have ruled, repeatedly, that baby’s momma does not have to document that she spends the money for the good of the child.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:
The law considers what is in the best interest of the child.

I think it basically varies between jurisdictions, but yes, there are cases where a non-biological ‘father’ has been required to pay child support.[/quote]

Which is massively fucked up.[/quote]

So… You meet a girl and fall in love. She has a 3 year old from a dead beat that has vanished.

You marry the woman, and live with her and raise the 3 year old together for 7 years and then split from the mother.

Would it be “massively fucked up” for you to provide for the child that, unless you suck as a person, sees you as their father?[/quote]

It is massively fucked up that my money would be taken from me by the state and given to a woman who probably left me (70% of divorce is initiated by women) who does not have to spend it on the child. Yes, that is epically, retardedly fucked up. I would of course continue to be a father and a role model to any child I had helped raised, but when and how I chose to do so would be up to me, in a just system, not up to the state. But then I don’t date single moms, so this will never be my problem.

Another thought, if I fell into your hypothetical, do I get guaranteed visitation with this child who sees me as it’s father? Guaranteed as in, if the mother tries to obstruct my right to spend time with “my” child, will the cops show up and slap the cuffs on her?

[/quote]

I saw a b-movie last night (I do not recommend it unless you like the taste of vomit) called “Black Angels”…about these three black women who go around town beating up and holding guns to the heads of guys who hadn’t paid child support (you know…“super heroes”). Mind you, every guy they ran across was secretly living in a mansion filled with hookers who had tons of CASH on them.

[/quote]

Was Pam Grier in it, and did she get bucked naked?

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[Yeah, fuck that, damaged goods. Right? lol.

[/quote]

Step back and look at the rest of your insane wall of text and you might get an idea of why single moms aren’t as attractive. lol.

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

Aren’t you presumptuous. [/quote]

ease off on the butthurt here dude. I wasn’t attacking you.

Hysteria? I’m not the one citing all these wonderful stories like you are below. I’m talking about what happens a majority of the time. I’m talking about the hundreds of thousands of broken relationships that handle these matters appropriately. You are the one talking about the very few horror stories. Are you even reading what you are writing?

[quote]Now here’s what I give a fuck about:

1- My rights as a father (if I ever become one) and human being. [/quote]

Thanks for proving my point, lol.

ah, no dude, once you have kids, you become less important. You are speaking on issues you don’t understand because you aren’t a parent. Keep it up, works well for you.

How convenient. I know 3 fathers than have custody of thier kids, countless divorces that put the kids first and turned out fine, and many many many women that have gotten jack and shit from the fathers of their kids, and made it just fine.

My highness? Dude having to use personal attacks to make your point makes your point, well, pointless. I didn’t ban shit. I said for every horror story you want to rally behind, there are 300,000 stories where it isn’t like that. So what is the point in focusing on the minority? Really?

So your buddies have been completely innocent in this whole ordeal? They just got fucked over by the man right?

LOL. You have no fucking clue as to what you are speaking about. Are you a parent? Are you? do you provide for a child? Do you?

Nope, so continue to pontificate about which you don’t understand…

get this, one of the fathers I know that has custody, has custody because he was able to prove the mother was neglecting the child, you know, just like you describe above, and he has his daughter now… Imagine that.

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[Yeah, fuck that, damaged goods. Right? lol.

[/quote]

Step back and look at the rest of your insane wall of text and you might get an idea of why single moms aren’t as attractive. lol.[/quote]

I’m insane?

You don’t strike me as someone who would be able to handle that situation anyway, so maybe it is better off you run from single mom’s.

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Flip it the other way then, what if the mom wants an abortion and the father doesn’t? He just has to live with the fact the woman killed his baby?[/quote]

Or the woman could have the baby, and hand it over to the man to raise.[/quote]

My brother, has not only his kids from his X, but also 2 that were from other men.

My dad adopted me when I was 2, my real dad split and killed himself when I was 4.

I married a lady with 3 kids one with Downs, and have raised them as my own.

I like you Momma, but not all men are afraid to raise children. [/quote]

Never said they were. Just suggesting an alternative to abortion in the case HG mentioned above.

BTW, My brother and I were raised by my father. [/quote]

:slight_smile: Big reason why you are awesome.

Now back to whatever arguing is going on.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[Yeah, fuck that, damaged goods. Right? lol.

[/quote]

Step back and look at the rest of your insane wall of text and you might get an idea of why single moms aren’t as attractive. lol.[/quote]

I’m insane?

You don’t strike me as someone who would be able to handle that situation anyway, so maybe it is better off you run from single mom’s. [/quote]

Beans, beans, beans, why do you continue to argue with young men who know everything?

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

Aren’t you presumptuous. [/quote]

ease off on the butthurt here dude. I wasn’t attacking you. [/quote]

Nice use of leading words. “Butthurt!” that’s excellent. You were telling me what was important to me, which is a presumption on your part. No butthurt, just facts.

Hysteria? I’m not the one citing all these wonderful stories like you are below. I’m talking about what happens a majority of the time. I’m talking about the hundreds of thousands of broken relationships that handle these matters appropriately. You are the one talking about the very few horror stories. Are you even reading what you are writing?

[/quote]
Yes, and according to you, everything is hunkydory. And from what I see all around me it is not. What makes your version of reality the facts and mine just horror stories? Aside from your declaration?

[quote]Now here’s what I give a fuck about:

1- My rights as a father (if I ever become one) and human being. [/quote]

Thanks for proving my point, lol.
[/quote]
And how exactly did I do that? Your point was that all I care about was the money. My point is that it is massively fucked up that a man should be trapped into paying for someone else’s kid, because to the system, he is less important than the kid.

ah, no dude, once you have kids, you become less important. You are speaking on issues you don’t understand because you aren’t a parent. Keep it up, works well for you. [/quote]

And apparently, once someone else has kids that aren’t mine and decieves me into believing that they are mine, I also become less important, because that is what this discussion is about: paternity testing and men being forced by the government to pay for children that are not theirs. But I can’t possibly understand that, because I don’t have kids! lol!

You’re also now trying to claim the moral high ground when it comes to personal attacks, yet you started us down that road by saying I suck as a human being because I wouldn’t want to be forced to pay for a child that was not mine. But I just don’t get it because I don’t have kids! lol!

I’ve made my point, further discussion is a waste.

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
You were telling me what was important to me, which is a presumption on your part. No butthurt, just facts.[/quote]

Presumption v observation… I made an observation based on my perception, you confirmed it as accurate.

[quote]
Yes, and according to you, everything is hunkydory. [/quote]

Um no, I believe I have said more than once the system isn’t perfect, and you and others have very legitimate complaints about certain issues. Try and keep up/

How do I know your stories arent’ fairy tales?

See how easy that is? Rather than address that actual point, let’s just keep trying to discredit the person stating the point. This is so much fun, and such a productive conversation this way… YEAH!

[quote]
And how exactly did I do that? Your point was that all I care about was the money. My point is that it is massively fucked up that a man should be trapped into paying for someone else’s kid, because to the system, he is less important than the kid. [/quote]

No. My point is all you care about is you. Your money, your rights, your feelings, whether it is your child. You, You You. All you care about is you.

When you have kids, you will understand that you are less important. Not because the system says so, but because you are. If you are a real man, which I firmly believe you are, or will be some day, when you hold your child in your arms, you will know what I mean. You don’t matter anymore.

And I laid out a couple of situations where a real man, any man with conviction, integrity and the balls to be an adult, will provide for the child, his by blood or not. Why you think that is massively fucked up, I don’t know. You seem stuck on your buddie’s situations, like they are 100% innocent and being screwed by the man, when I doubt that very much.

[quote]
And apparently, once someone else has kids that aren’t mine and decieves me into believing that they are mine, I also become less important, because that is what this discussion is about: paternity testing and men being forced by the government to pay for children that are not theirs. But I can’t possibly understand that, because I don’t have kids! lol! [/quote]

If you aren’t the father, you get a lawyer, and fight it. You will win and the legal costs now will be far less than the costs of raising a child.

If your are lied to by a whore of a woman and find out after raising the child for a decade that it isn’t yours, you pay for the fucking kid, or get custody. If you want to skip out on that child because in your mind it is massively fucked up you actually have to continue to parent a child that isn’t your blood but still your child at that point, well then I don’t know what to tell you.

What you don’t understand are the costs of having kids. You don’t get it. You don’t understand the costs emotionally, financially and physically. And if you read what I posted I believe those were the area’s I mentioned you don’t get. You aren’t smart enough to twist my words to try and discredit my points by discrediting me, it isn’t going to work. Address my points, not the person making them.

I never said that, but again, nice try at discrediting me rather than my points.

I would be back pedaling the fuck out of this thread if I were you too. Smart move.

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[Yeah, fuck that, damaged goods. Right? lol.

[/quote]

Step back and look at the rest of your insane wall of text and you might get an idea of why single moms aren’t as attractive. lol.[/quote]

I’m insane?

You don’t strike me as someone who would be able to handle that situation anyway, so maybe it is better off you run from single mom’s. [/quote]

Beans, beans, beans, why do you continue to argue with young men who know everything?
[/quote]

Because it is the internet. Someone comes up to me on the street and says “2+2=potato” I would smile and keep walking.

On the internet on the other hand, I will go back and forth for pages about that fucking potato, lol.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[Yeah, fuck that, damaged goods. Right? lol.

[/quote]

Step back and look at the rest of your insane wall of text and you might get an idea of why single moms aren’t as attractive. lol.[/quote]

No, Beans, this is teh Interwebz. You gotta have a goddammed lulz kitteh wit that potato.

I’m insane?

You don’t strike me as someone who would be able to handle that situation anyway, so maybe it is better off you run from single mom’s. [/quote]

Beans, beans, beans, why do you continue to argue with young men who know everything?
[/quote]

Because it is the internet. Someone comes up to me on the street and says “2+2=potato” I would smile and keep walking.

On the internet on the other hand, I will go back and forth for pages about that fucking potato, lol.[/quote]

No, Beans-- this is teh Interwebz. You gotta have a goddammed lulz kitteh with that fucking potato

Good posts, beans.

I think.

Fuck I’m so drunk right now. I drink maybe twice a year, hhaaha.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:
The law considers what is in the best interest of the child.

I think it basically varies between jurisdictions, but yes, there are cases where a non-biological ‘father’ has been required to pay child support.[/quote]

Which is massively fucked up.[/quote]

So… You meet a girl and fall in love. She has a 3 year old from a dead beat that has vanished.

You marry the woman, and live with her and raise the 3 year old together for 7 years and then split from the mother.

Would it be “massively fucked up” for you to provide for the child that, unless you suck as a person, sees you as their father?[/quote]

Which is not the same, as that time spent raising a child who you know isn’t yours and knew from the get go makes you a de facto father.

What bothers me is that men have been forced to pay child support solely on the basis that the mother has lied and put his name on the birth certificate.

At risk of making Beans angry, I wouldn’t date a single mom (again).

I’d not like having a kid and not having a “say” in his/her education, to say so.

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:
The law considers what is in the best interest of the child.

I think it basically varies between jurisdictions, but yes, there are cases where a non-biological ‘father’ has been required to pay child support.[/quote]

Which is massively fucked up.[/quote]

So… You meet a girl and fall in love. She has a 3 year old from a dead beat that has vanished.

You marry the woman, and live with her and raise the 3 year old together for 7 years and then split from the mother.

Would it be “massively fucked up” for you to provide for the child that, unless you suck as a person, sees you as their father?[/quote]

Which is not the same, as that time spent raising a child who you know isn’t yours and knew from the get go makes you a de facto father.

What bothers me is that men have been forced to pay child support solely on the basis that the mother has lied and put his name on the birth certificate.[/quote]

Agreed. While MARRIAGE may make things more complicated, no one yet has given a good reason why a man who is not the father should legally be forced to pay child support for a child that isn’t his just because he was 2 years deep before finding out the kid wasn’t his.

That should be a DECISION of the father. He got lied to. Why force him to pay for a mistake the woman made?

In the best interest of the child…she can get another job because of the lie she told.

My guess is, 5 years of that and we get way less false fathers.

[quote]Edevus wrote:
At risk of making Beans angry, I wouldn’t date a single mom (again).

I’d not like having a kid and not having a “say” in his/her education, to say so.
[/quote]

I’m not mad about it. It is not something every man could handle.

There is no shame there either, that isn’t the way I mean that statement to come across. But it isn’t easy to be a step-parent, particularly the younger the child. Not everyone has the ability to function in that capacity.