Panzerfaust vs

05-08-13
Beyond 5/3/1
Cycle 2 . Week 3 . Day 1

Overhead Press
1 x 5 x 25kg
1 x 5 x 32.5kg
1 x 3 x 37.5kg
1 x 3 x 45kg
1 x 3 x 50kg
1 x 1 x 57.5kg
1 x 6 x 62.5kg (rep PR)

2 x 1 x 70kg (Joker)

Rest Pause x 12, 7, 5 x 45kg (Down Sets)

*All sets supersetted with band pullaparts or facepulls

Weighted Chins
Rest Pause x 8, 6, 4 x BW +15kg (PR I think)

Close Grip Bench Press
1 x 3 x 47.5kg
1 x 3 x 55kg
1 x 3 x 62.5kg
1 x 1 x 70kg
1 x 10 x 77.5kg (Rep PR as I’ve never really trained CGBP)

1 x 1 x 85kg(Joker)
2 x 1 x 90kg(Joker)

4 x 5 x 55kg (down sets)

*All work sets supersetted with internal / external rotations

*All down sets supersetted with:

Dead Stop DB Rows
5 x 8 x 20kg

*20 Hammergrip Chins

Barbell Curls
Rest Pause x 16, 10, 7 x 30kg (Curl PR haha)

Notes

-OHP: Happy with today’s efforts, I really enjoyed the whole workout and felt strong. I decided to use Rest Pause for my down sets, and two 70kg singles for Jokers. My form feels solid as.

-CGBP: I haven’t really trained this before so most weeks will be PR sets for a while. They don’t really count, though.

-Everything was good and I finished feeling pretty happy with my efforts.

Is beyond 531 what it sounds? A program developed for continual gains after some time with the standard 531 templete? I wouldn’t mind investing in it if there is a bit of new material but am not sure how much more content there is in beyond vs. the original 531 pdf.

How much “conditioning” have you been doing? (I consider walking conditioning haha). Even with weak ass walking I feel much better.

I’m not a deadlifting connoisseur but try to learn here and there because I kinda stink at it. If I remember right probably the best advice comes from a kid. Something like, “You just pick it up?” (Wendler’s kid I think.) This is my new deadlifting motto and dictates my form. I used to just pick it up then became more mechanical after reading some stuff. I should have just kept picking it up. It never really felt right otherwise. Became obsessed with foot placement.

More I am hearing curvature of the back is fine if you keep that curved shape through the lift.

The curve if any should be mostly upper back. Try at your risk I’m too chicken shit myself.

I was worried when you typed up “batting for the other team” because I thought you were coming out of the closet or something on your training log haha I would useless at giving advice. On the topic I mostly ate chicken for maybe 5 months and didn’t waste away. Just got tired of beef.

[quote]mikemike87 wrote:
Is beyond 531 what it sounds? A program developed for continual gains after some time with the standard 531 templete? I wouldn’t mind investing in it if there is a bit of new material but am not sure how much more content there is in beyond vs. the original 531 pdf.

How much “conditioning” have you been doing? (I consider walking conditioning haha). Even with weak ass walking I feel much better.

I’m not a deadlifting connoisseur but try to learn here and there because I kinda stink at it. If I remember right probably the best advice comes from a kid. Something like, “You just pick it up?” (Wendler’s kid I think.) This is my new deadlifting motto and dictates my form. I used to just pick it up then became more mechanical after reading some stuff. I should have just kept picking it up. It never really felt right otherwise. Became obsessed with foot placement.

More I am hearing curvature of the back is fine if you keep that curved shape through the lift.

The curve if any should be mostly upper back. Try at your risk I’m too chicken shit myself.

I was worried when you typed up “batting for the other team” because I thought you were coming out of the closet or something on your training log haha I would useless at giving advice. On the topic I mostly ate chicken for maybe 5 months and didn’t waste away. Just got tired of beef.

[/quote]

Yo!

Apart from presenting the program itself, Wendler does not elaborate much on the background of it.

He describes it as a Choose Your Own Adventure style of training. You start with a training max and set + rep guideline, but from there on in it is extremely flexible as to how you feel on a given training day. You still want to set rep PRs.

It’s not described as a follow-up to 5/3/1, but something entirely its own beast, which will likely have a manual of its own in a few years’ time.

I read somewhere else that he’s stated it is a program for advanced lifters, but in the manual all he really says is it’s not for the casual lifter as it requires a lot of thought, experience and instinct.

So yeah, in short it is a totally new program. However, the Beyond 531 manual also has a FUCKLOAD of new 5/3/1 material in it. Well worth the buy!


I’ve been doing fasted incline treadmill walking 3-4 mornings per week, around 30mins at 5-6 kilometres per hour. Incline 2.


Hmm yeah that’s what I have read regarding “set-back-curvature”. I guess my video just freaked me out haha. I may post it if I feel brave at some stage!


Haha don’t worry man, I do not require sexual orientation counselling just yet! I do probably watch too many action movies for my own good, though.


On the subject of man-love, I see you have new pics up. Are you planning to use them as a revision mark for a physical quest of some form?

06-08-13
Beyond 5/3/1
Cycle 2 . Week 3 . Day 2

Squat (used “Option 4” from the manual)
1 x 5 x 50kg
1 x 5 x 62.5kg
1 x 3 x 72.5kg

1 x 1 x 85kg
1 x 1 x 97.5kg
1 x 1 x 110kg
1 x 1 x 122.5kg

1 x 1 x 85kg
1 x 1 x 97.5kg
1 x 1 x 110kg
1 x 1 x 122.5kg

1 x 1 x 135kg (Joker)
1 x 1 x 140kg (Joker)
2 x 1 x 150kg (Joker)

*All sets supersetted with quad stretches and pull ups

Straight Leg Deadlift
5 x 10 x 52.5kg

*All sets supersetted with 10 push ups

Abs
3 x 15 x 10kg weighted situp
3 x 15 x 20kg side bend

Notes

-Unique to Beyond 5/3/1 is the range of “Options” for how you approach each training day. Today I was fucking fried from lack of sleep and a hard workout yesterday where I set some PRs. So I used “Option 4: If you are having a bad day”.

-Simply put, you do the minimum reps on your Work Sets (1 rep instead of 2 or 3) but you do the sets twice. Then you choose to do either Jokers or Down Sets. I chose Jokers, and worked up to the weight which will be my programmed max for next cycle.

-Pretty sore, good day’s work though.

08-08-13
Beyond 5/3/1
Cycle 2 . Week 3 . Day 3

Bench Press
1 x 5 x 40kg
1 x 3 x 50kg
1 x 3 x 60kg
1 x 3 x 70kg
1 x 2 x 80kg
1 x 1 x 90kg
1 x 4 x 100kg

4 x 1 x 105kg (Joker Sets, varied grip width)

3 x 8 x 70kg (Down Sets)

*All sets supersetted with 10 band pullaparts, facepulls, int/ext rotations

*20 chin ups

Incline Dumbbell Bench Press
5 x 10 x 22.5kg

Chest Supported DB Row (supersetted with Inclines)
5 x 10 x 22.5kg

Barbell Triceps Extension
Rest Pause x 16, 9, 6 x 30kg

Notes

-I have come to the conclusion I am possibly not recovering from my OHP + CGBP day enough, and my Bench day is suffering. I had an awesome Bench day on 18-07-13, which was Week 3 of Cycle 1, but in the past month something has happened.

-Problem is likely to do with me adding CGBP for Beyond 531 sets and reps. My OHP seems to be going well, but Bench is getting harder each week. Another factor will be bodyweight dropping - I was 93.5kg today which is down around 3kg since I started Beyond 531.

-Solution? I will deload next week, then start Cycle 3 with Bench on Monday and Press later in the week :).

-I shouldn’t bitch too much, as I have lost 3kg of fat and visibly leaned while not particularly getting any weaker overall.

-Anyway so today I did 4 reps at my 100% Training Max, then 4 singles at 105kg, which is 90% of my true max. I used a different grip for each bench, my strongest was a thumb’s-length out from the inner smooth; medium I guess.

-Final day of Cycle 2 tomorrow!

09-08-13
Beyond 5/3/1
Cycle 2 . Week 3 . Day 4

Deadlift
1 x 5 x 70kg
1 x 5 x 87.5kg
1 x 3 x 105kg
1 x 3 x 122.5kg
1 x 3 x 140kg
1 x 1 x 160kg
1 x 6 x 175kg (rep PR)

1 x 2 x 185kg (Joker Set)

3 x 3 x 122.5kg (Down Sets)

*All sets supersetted with quad stretches and band int/ext rotations

*25 Wide Grip Pull Ups.

Snatch Grip Deadlift
3 x 3 x 100kg

Ab Wheel Rollout
3 x 15

Notes

-I must say I am happy to be done with Cycle 2 and about to deload haha. Normally I would not admit this, but I’ve been feeling like shit the last week. Headaches, a bit of a cold, feeling dizzy at times, not sleeping great. Definitely rest time!

-However, I was happy with my final deadlift day. 175 x 6 doesn’t put me at any kind of predicted 1RM record or anything silly like that, but it did feel like a good solid set and I think it’s a PR.

-I finished with a double at 185kg. I have decided I will never do another deadlift session where I do not at least hit 400lb. With my max at over 500lb, it’s just lazy not to.

-Kettlebells have been tweaking something in my shoulder so I am going to give snatch grip deadlifts a whirl for the next cycles. I used to really enjoy these. So today I just did a few medium weight ones to see how they felt.

-See you in deload week.

So I am currently deloading and there’s not much to post really.

Beyond 531 Deloads are “only done when you need it” or every 6 weeks or so. I’ve completed 6 weeks of training (2 cycles) and feel pretty ruined so here I am.

Normal training is:

10% x 3-5
20% x 3-5
30% x 3-5
40% x 3-5
50% x 3-5
60% x 3-5
70% x 1-3
80% x 1-3
90% x 1
100% x 1 or Rep PR

*All percentages based on 85% of your max.

This base is the same for all 3 weeks of each cycle. Wendler then offers 7 approaches to the above, from which you select your daily lifting chores, including Joker sets, Down sets, etc.

So, for deload you simply do 40% x 5, then minimum reps the rest of the way through. Easy.

Finished Deload today, was good to have a light week, but I do like the Beyond deload template in that it still gets you to work up to .85 of your working max for a single.

For Cycle 3, I’ve decided to use “Programming your assistance work” from 531 2nd Edition, and apply one “big” assistance lift to each of the Big 4. I will also move Bench to Monday, and drop CGBP as a main lift.

Monday
Bench Press - Beyond 531
Barbell Incline Bench - 2nd Ed Assistance Template

Tuesday
Squat - Beyond 531
Straight Leg Deadlift - 2nd Ed Assistance Template

Thursday
Overhead Press - Beyond 531
Close Grip Bench Press - 2nd Ed Assistance Template

Friday
Deadlift - Beyond 531
Snatch Grip Deadlift - 2nd Ed Assistance Template

Plus a couple of other assistance lifts each day, and chins, band work etc.

The reason for lots of deadlift variations is simply because I’m trying to build my glutes and hamstrings, and get them more involved in my lifts.

Looking forward to Monday!

Also, bodyweight is down to 92kg. So about 9lbs down in 7 weeks of controlled eating.

19-08-13
Beyond 5/3/1
Cycle 3 . Week 1 . Day 1

Bench Press
1 x 5 x 40kg
1 x 3 x 52.5kg
1 x 3 x 62.5kg
1 x 3 x 72.5kg
1 x 3 x 82.5kg
1 x 1 x 92.5kg
1 x 3 x 102.5kg

1 x 2 x 107.5kg (Joker Set)
1 x 1 x 110kg (Joker Set)

5 x 5 x 72.5kg (Down Sets)

Incline Bench Press (Progammed Assistance)
1 x 10 x 37.5kg
1 x 10 x 42.5kg
1 x 10 x 50kg

Chest Supported DB Row (supersetted with Incline Bench)
3 x 10 x 25kg

Barbell Bicep Curl
Rest Pause x 10, 8, 5 x 32.5kg

Decline Dumbbell Triceps Extension
15, 12, 10 x 12.5kg

Intraset Bands etc
30 Band Pullaparts
30 Band Facepulls
30 Internal Rotations
30 External Rotations
20 Hammergrip Chins
Quad Stretches

Notes

-First day of the new cycle went alright. I Felt like it was well-programmed to be challenging but not leave me utterly ruined.

-I tried benching with flat feet for the first time ever, and it felt nice and stable. I will continue with it for a while and see how this treats me. Why? Because my bench sucks and I want to try whatever I can!

-First time Incline Barbell Benching also… I’ve programmed it using the 2nd Edition system, so it’s really light but will increase over time. The final set was still good.

20-08-13
Beyond 5/3/1
Cycle 3 . Week 1 . Day 2

Squat
1 x 5 x 50kg
1 x 5 x 62.5kg
1 x 3 x 75kg
1 x 3 x 87.5kg
1 x 3 x 100kg
1 x 1 x 112.5kg
1 x 7 x 125kg (maybe a rep PR, unsure, haven’t repped much ha)

1 x 1 x 132.5kg (Joker Set)
1 x 1 x 137.5kg (Joker Set)
1 x 1 x 145kg (Joker Set)
1 x 1 x 147.5kg (Joker Set)

5 x 5 x 87.5kg (Down Sets)

Straight Leg Deadlift (Progammed Assistance)
1 x 10 x 50kg
1 x 10 x 60kg
1 x 10 x 70kg

Abs
Weighted Situps 3 x 10 x 15kg
Side Bends 3 x 10 x 20kg

Intraset Sheeyit etc
30 Pushups
45 Calf Raises
20 Widegrip Pullups
Quad Stretches
Glute Stretches

Notes

-I was fairly pleased with today; it was a well-rounded workout.

-Smashed the bar on the j-hooks during ascent in my first squat, doing this shit way too often. I am debating investing in a larger cage or maybe a bar with slightly wider collars. I don’t know, bound to fuck myself up one day though ha.

-My triceps are killing me from yesterday’s training!

-I have decided using the Programmed Assistance was a fucking good idea.

Last night I was really tempted to skip the down sets, which is an option. But I was asking myself exactly why and came to the conclusion it was laziness and the fact I don’t like rep-work on squats. Maybe that is why I’ve never quite reached 400lbs haha. Anyway I did them, and consequently I’m sore as fuck today.

BW: 92.9kg

22-08-13
Beyond 5/3/1
Cycle 3 . Week 1 . Day 3

Overhead Press
1 x 5 x 25kg
1 x 5 x 32.5kg
1 x 3 x 40kg
1 x 3 x 45kg
1 x 3 x 52.5kg
1 x 1 x 57.5kg
1 x 4 x 65kg (Rep PR, recently anyway)

2 x 1 x 67.5kg (Joker Sets)

5 x 5 x 45kg (Down Sets)

Close Grip Bench Press(Progammed Assistance)
1 x 10 x 50kg
1 x 10 x 55kg
1 x 10 x 65kg

Supersetted with:

Dead-Stop Hip Row
3 x 10 x 25kg

Weighted Pull Up
BW+15kg x 5,5,5,2,1

Intraset Sheeyit etc
60 Band Pullaparts
30 Facepulls
30 Internal and External Rotations

Notes

-I was aiming for 4 reps on my main set and got this fairly comfortably. I’m really enjoying Press lately, and feel confident of a 1RM PR before long.

-Really trying to nail my form, squeezing my glutes hard and starting with my elbows fairly straight out in front.

-I do heaps of bandwork these days and it really makes my shoulders feel healthy, which has been a weak point in times past.

Congrats with the rep PR Panzer :slight_smile:

Nice, glad to see things are going well. :slight_smile: Also, snatch grip deadlifts are good for strength off the floor/upper back being too weak.

[quote]florelius wrote:
Congrats with the rep PR Panzer :)[/quote]

Cheers buddy! Are you still Darkly Dreaming?

[quote]DSSG wrote:
Nice, glad to see things are going well. :slight_smile: Also, snatch grip deadlifts are good for strength off the floor/upper back being too weak.[/quote]

Yeah I am enjoying Beyond so far. I feel it promotes good volume for the main lifts and enjoy the choice between repping out a sub-max weight or a high effort one.

I used to do SGDL years ago before I got srs (srs being a relative term) and though they were awesome. Really excited to have them back in the programme… though not so much the 3 x 10 I have to do today haha.


BW: 92.3 the last two days. Slowly de-chubbing

24-08-13
Beyond 5/3/1
Cycle 3 . Week 1 . Day 4

Deadlift
1 x 5 x 72.5kg
1 x 5 x 90kg
1 x 3 x 107.5kg
1 x 3 x 125kg
1 x 3 x 145kg
1 x 1 x 162.5kg
1 x 6 x 180kg (rep PR)

1 x 1 x 190kg (Joker Set)
1 x 1 x 205kg (Joker Set)

Snatch Grip Deadlift (Progammed Assistance)
1 x 10 x 60kg
1 x 10 x 70kg
1 x 10 x 82.5kg

Abs
Decline Twist Situps 3 x 15
Ab Wheel Rolls 3 x 15

Intraset Sheeyit etc

50 Calf Raises
25 Widegrip Pullups
Quad Stretches
Glute Stretches

Notes

-Solid rep PR, really happy with that. I feel like I am building back toward my 500lb+ deadlift quite quickly, maybe could get it now actually.

-Down sets are optional for deadlift, so I am not going to do them; SGDL is enough volume work.

-I love snatch grip deads, though they fucking ruin me haha.

-Good workout!

Congrats on another PR Panzer :smiley:

No I am not darkly dreaming anymore :slight_smile:

Hi there, it’s my first post here! Stumbled upon your log while looking for “beyond 5/3/1 logs”. Looking to switch things up from the standard 5/3/1 I’ve been doing for about a year, with a short break with “the cube method”.

Is it ok if I ask some questions here?

Yes?

Great! :wink:

What’s your thought on this: On LB days, after the whole sets and reps of the beyond 531 (jokers+back off sets), my assistence will be SSB squats + GM’s or snatch grip deads or deficit deads + ab work.

Would that be too much? I really want to do SSB squats, it’s great for building my squat. Training time will be 1,5h max.

[quote]DieNase wrote:
Hi there, it’s my first post here! Stumbled upon your log while looking for “beyond 5/3/1 logs”. Looking to switch things up from the standard 5/3/1 I’ve been doing for about a year, with a short break with “the cube method”.

Is it ok if I ask some questions here?

Yes?

Great! :wink:

What’s your thought on this: On LB days, after the whole sets and reps of the beyond 531 (jokers+back off sets), my assistence will be SSB squats + GM’s or snatch grip deads or deficit deads + ab work.

Would that be too much? I really want to do SSB squats, it’s great for building my squat. Training time will be 1,5h max.[/quote]

Hey man what’s up. Ask away!

Sounds like a good plan but I would do the Good Mornings at fairly low effort (low volume OR intensity). Your work capacity may be better than mine, but after the full Beyond sets for LB lifts I am pretty spent, and one big assistance is all I can handle.

My other thought would be: on deadlift day the down sets are optional (Wendler’s words) so if you’re going to use a relatively high effort deadlift variation as assistance, I would ditch the down sets.

My training is usually around 1.5 hours including warmup and stretching. 2 hours if I really fuck around haha.

FWIW I have just started programming one Big Assistance exercise (2nd edition) per day and I feel it is a great balance.

What are your lifts at right now?

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:

[quote]DieNase wrote:
Hi there, it’s my first post here! Stumbled upon your log while looking for “beyond 5/3/1 logs”. Looking to switch things up from the standard 5/3/1 I’ve been doing for about a year, with a short break with “the cube method”.

Is it ok if I ask some questions here?

Yes?

Great! :wink:

What’s your thought on this: On LB days, after the whole sets and reps of the beyond 531 (jokers+back off sets), my assistence will be SSB squats + GM’s or snatch grip deads or deficit deads + ab work.

Would that be too much? I really want to do SSB squats, it’s great for building my squat. Training time will be 1,5h max.[/quote]

Hey man what’s up. Ask away!

Sounds like a good plan but I would do the Good Mornings at fairly low effort (low volume OR intensity). Your work capacity may be better than mine, but after the full Beyond sets for LB lifts I am pretty spent, and one big assistance is all I can handle.

My other thought would be: on deadlift day the down sets are optional (Wendler’s words) so if you’re going to use a relatively high effort deadlift variation as assistance, I would ditch the down sets.

My training is usually around 1.5 hours including warmup and stretching. 2 hours if I really fuck around haha.

FWIW I have just started programming one Big Assistance exercise (2nd edition) per day and I feel it is a great balance.

What are your lifts at right now?[/quote]
My lifts are:
Squat 150kg
Bench 100kg
Deadlift 200kg
Press 65kg

Not very much but I’ve been working my way back up from not training for 2 years now.
The big assistence will be simple: GM’s and SSB squats are done for building muscle so GM’s will be 3-4 sets of 8-12 reps with 60kg’s for example. Just like Jim says…build muscle not the movement when it comes to assistance.
The down sets will be done for lower reps, 5’s instead off 8’s.
Maybe I can do the downsets for deadlifts dynamic? I think the deadliest is the only lift that benefits from dynamics.

Oh and I’m used to do the smaller stuff supersetted. Will do face pulls and pull aparts for a ton of reps in between all the big lifts, my shoulders feel like crap if I don’t do them.