Panic Attacks Sparked by Test Blast/Estrogen Crash

Pharma
41

Hahah actually i am not in a relationship so it is not a problem. Its better this way.
But I am letting my e2 rise a bit though. Because of its cardiovascular protective benefits etc.

This is pretty close to the “ideal” e2 of 22 pg/ml.
However, i dont think e2 that low is optimal with test @ 1500+. Maybe its good to keep it around 22 with physiologic test levels.
I will start ai again if i start feeling emotional, or if my blood pressure goes up (or when i feel any of the high e2 symptoms). 12.5mg aromasin eod.

42

Your e2 has been a mess. That’s pretty much suspect #1 in the case of the panic attacks. You went from fairly high to crushingly low in a short amount of time. You really really need to stay away from AIs for a while and let yourself find a balance.

43

Shit just happens sometimes. Its not always related to what youre taking, although of course it could be. When I was in my early 30’s I started having panic attacks at work and thought I was dying. I;d get all numb and shit. Dr gave me xanax and it worked but started its own monster for the better part of a decade. I was lifting a lot and cycling (bicycling not gear) and when I look back it may just be one of those things where life is changing and sorry t those with bullshit covered rose colored glasses, the world (the humans) is a shithole.

Everything you look at is corrupt and most cant see it becasue its painful to see. I took big a huge dose of mescaline that woke me the fuck up and later Ayhuesca and I can tell you most mouth breathers are sleeping. eat, fuck, shit, compete. Sorry but, its true. Im in there too, just aware of it, so I guess I can contend with being a piece of shit sometimes. My brain doesnt allow me to think nicely about situations that arent nice. Shit is corrupt.

And no, I dodnt have a shitty outlook on life, humans are garbage bags. I like myself, I realize Im a weirdo, I dont lie many people nor have the need for acceptance that many do.

Just a different perspective. The world is really fucked upa nd bucking up and taking it all the time can wreak havoc on us. We know something is white but society says its black so we go with it but there isan error in the formula early on that makes everything else based on it a few degrees off.

44

I think that everything is slowly coming into balance. I seem to be panicking less and today i had so much energy that i wanted to throw stuff around lol.

45

My reasoning on why i am having panic attacks in the gym after heavy sets is that i have lots of adrenaline and cortisol floating around in my body. Hence the panic attacks are derived from stress. But even though my mind wanted to panick because of the high heartrate after every single set today, i managed to push through. Probably ashwagandha is helping me. I am more mellow, when the panic starts i am like whatever, even to the point where i get pissed and say go ahead bring it on b1tch (if it has to be cardiac arrest then so be it i am damn pissed)!

Or maybe higher levels of testosterone are helping me cope with panic by making me feel more alpha and giving me i dont give a fuk attitutde.
I think it is the combination of high testosterone and ashwagandha.

However, i seem to be getting winded easier than before and from time to time feel out of breath and i am getting thwt weird feeling of pressure being exerted on my chest (not directly where the heart is, but more to the center and a bit higher, where the thyroid would be).

But then again, i could be getting winded easier since in the last month or so i have drained a lot of blood to get my hematocrit under 0.50 and conversely light headedness can be from iron deficiency. All speculation of course,
I dunno, i am pretty sure its just hypochondria but i am going to do an ECG tomorrow and ask to wear a holter (where you wear that thing the whole day for heart function monitoring).

I doubt that 3 months of on average of 700mg of steroids per week (week 1-6 500 test week 7-12 600 test 200 mast) is enough to cause heart failure, significant left ventricular hypertrophy and/or significantly lowered left ventricular ejection fraction, but i guees that everything is possible.

That being said, i would be pissed if that is the case (heart failure). I am like a month of cutting away from my goal physique, and also from coming off. It sucks this lifestyle is not maintainable.

And even if i did acquire heart failure, it doesnt neccesarily mean it is solely from steroids. I mean, they would have definitely played the role, but it would have probably happened on its own anyway, just later.

But it is what it is. Better safe than sorry.

Edit: hmm i am reading up on heart failure caused by anabolic androgenic steroids. Long Term Anabolic-Androgenic Steroid Use is Associated with Left Ventricular Dysfunction - PMC

These guys did have significantly worse cardiac markers, but they all had more than 3 years of cumulative use under their belt.
This makes me believe even more it is just hypochondria (chest pressure and feeling out of breath, occasional what feels like i am on my way to pass out feeling) and panic but still…
Maybe there is an underlying problem.

46

Agreed.

I have diagnosed anxiety and used to suffer panic attacks on the regular. CBT, therapy and managing triggers is the key.

Hormonal changes can definitely be triggers, proceed with caution on drugs or supps that manipulate them.

1 Like
47

You just wrote an essay about your (entirely unfounded) fear that it’s heart failure. Safe to say that the underlying problem is in your head.

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As i said i am pretty sure it is in my head. However, there may be an underlying problem which was potentially exacerbated.

I am not saying this amount of steroids for that amount of time is the cause. That would be extremely unlikely.

Also, the “essay” is the way for me to actually put my thoughts together. As i have nobody around me who is even remotely interested in discussing these topics.

@jtomey77 i agree i definitely need to take it easy on ancillaires. I quit taking ai for the time being until high e2 symptoms appear, like bloat and/or blood pressure, cant really use morning wood or erections as a marker the way i see a lot of guys on trt do as i dont get them.

I even decided to abstain from taking caber for my high prolactin (411, reference (86,324)) as i am worried that the increase in dopamine will cause an increase in adrenaline which would wreak havoc on my panic attacks.

Actually, i want to say that i really dont think that i have anxiety. I mean, all i can say is that it is reduced since i hopped o steroids. I remember being self conscious about eating in public and generally being anxious about what other/superiors think of me etc. If anything, i feel way better and much more confident when it comes to these things. I am much more grounded and sself confident, to the point where
when someone says something about me instead of thinking about it i just wave my hand. Hell, today a colleague said my calves are small! I just laughed and said yeah, i have to train them harder. Before i would be thinking for few hours at least about it.

I have hypochondria and experience panic attacks.
Or i am anxious but really only about my health. Lets call it cardiophobia, i believe it is a thing,think i read about it somewhere.
Phobia of heart disease, caused by reading countless artcles on heart damage from anabolics which is founded when we take the anabolics as a general in account but also not founded when we take into consideration doses and compounds i have been using and time i have been on.

At least i hope so, lol.

49

Health anxiety is a common and treatable issue. I know there is a stigma around anxiety as a whole but the hypochondria and panic attacks are classic extensions of anxiety (trust me, I have it).

Getting your mind in a good place and understanding the genesis / root causes of the anxiety as well as how to track your triggers and develop coping schemes makes an enormous difference. At least it did for me.

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Oh i had health anxiety on and off since i can remember and as you said, hormonal fluctuations sparked it and panic attacks.

Its funny how i always panic after the set is done, when i become aware of my fast heartbeat, never during the set itself. During the set itself i feel fine and it actually seems like my heartrate increases more after the set than during the set itself. Again, anxiety.
Its better this way, because if i panicked during sets it would destroy my workouts. And the panic gets worse as the workout progresses, ie. it is absent during the first few sets but grows into full blown panic attacks nearing the end of the workout. Probably as stress accumulates.

The biggest leap in terms of me stressing less about panic attacks lately comes from the fact that i am less anxious about the idea of dying itself. Probably combination of high testosterone and ashwagandha.
I rather be pissed off (which high testosterone makes me) than panicky.
Kinda pissed off feeling, but more like “bring it on b1tch” feeling, if you understand what i mean.

I also want to add that before steroids i had anticipatory anxiety (as in when i was younger inschool before exams, meeting superiors at work, receiving letters from the court etc.) and bouts of depression thwt would last for days and days. This is completely gone.

I mean, it makes sense. I expect steroids to cause health issues so i am mentally experiencing them, even though i didnt have any major problems as of yet (except for hematocrit, but i solved that with at home phlebotomies, if you can apply an IV it really is not a big deal).

Honestly, i believe that a sound trt protocol guided by a knowledgeable doc would be the best course of action after i am done with this madness.
I dont really fancy the idea of returning to 330 ng/dl of total test. Or probably even lower after this.
I really like how i get no depression while on exogenous test. It doesnt even touch me. When i do start to get depressive thoughts about me being subpar in a matter of seconds i am able to dismiss them. Like i just automatically tell myself to shut up and be aware that i am responsible for the outcome of situations in my life, where previously i would believe that i am unfortunate.

Also, a big one. At work we deal with lots of mechanical challenges when it comes to installing accessory equipment on cars. I used to get terrible anxiety when a customer would approach me with an issue (“maan, what if i cant solve it, what if this, what if that…”).
The way I approach these issues now astounds me from time to time, even if it is something i dont have lots of previous experience with, i still approach an issue sistematically, try to figure out the solution and only then if i cant, i reach out to colleagues. But i dont stress about it. I am focused on the challenge itself, not on me being a “subpar mechanic” anymore.

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So I had a experience with heart spikes and a panic attack about the same time when the docs did a blood test they found my potassium was at 2.9 percent, this regulates heart rate and my electrolytes were pretty low.
I started a men’s multi and making sure I ate a little more potassium rich foods cashews, avocado, banana ect and made sure I was hydrated and I take a potassium vitamin daily I haven’t had this issue since hope you get it worked out, best of luck

52

Stop taking AI’s for at least 3 months.

the problem is your low e2.