Our President

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]Professor X wrote:
No, I want you to answer the question DIRECTLY. Again, exactly how is America alone now in a better situation due to the war in Iraq happening at the exact time it did? Why is this that hard to answer?

You all claim that Clinton should have gone to war or should be blamed for not going to war or doing something about Saddam, so please, enlighten what we have gained directly in this country as a result to going in when we did and not waiting.
[/quote]

Had we gone into Iraq under Clinton, there is a very real possibility the we might have avoided 9-11.

It’s unanswerable question - and you know it. Do you think it makes you look smart to ask it? You must because you have been like a broken record.

No matter what answer is given, you shrug it off and keep asking the same damn question.

Read my post again. Not just the little part that you quoted, but the entire post. The answer is there if you chose to accept it.

Problem is - you won’t accept anything that proves you wrong. Short of that - why the hell do you continue to post?

122

Rain wrote:

“Problem is - you won’t accept anything that proves you wrong. Short of that - why the hell do you continue to post”

That is the crux of the issue.

This guy used to make me angry. Now, I feel sorry for the enormous amount of baggage he carries around.

POX versus world.

It is apparent that he is never going to acknowledge that intelligent people may differ from him.

I’m finding that I am learning more from discussing issues with people that are civil and reasonable.

I reserve the right to be a prick once in a while!!!

But, overall, I’m trying to tone things down.

JeffR

123

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
The good Prof. is doing his best to divert the fact he has yet to answer any question posed to him.[/quote]

Excuse me? What questions have I not answered? You just lied with this post. It makes me wonder about everything else you have written.

124

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Read my post again. Not just the little part that you quoted, but the entire post. The answer is there if you chose to accept it.
[/quote]

Actually, the answer was not there. Are we better off financially? Socially? Are we better off as far as the world view seen by other countries? It is a simple question.

125

[quote]Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Please name one time when you have admitted that you were wrong…on anything…ever?

During the Sergio Oliva thread where I got the name wrong of one of the famous pro bodybuilders. That was just about a week ago. Anything else you would like to know?[/quote]

I’m sorry, it was this thread:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=612379
Either way, you have your answer.

126

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Actually, the answer was not there. Are we better off financially? Socially? Are we better off as far as the world view seen by other countries? It is a simple question. [/quote]

The middle east is more open to democracy and we haven’t been attacked since 9-11.

127

[quote]malonetd wrote:
ZEB wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Did she forever ruin the Superbowl for you, ZEB? Or worse yet, did she steal your chin up bar?

My vote for the most ignorant comment in the past three months.

Ignorant? How is this ignorant? C’mon, nobody believes she stole anything of yours. I was just curious where this unending hatred of Janet Jackson comes from. Everytime her name is brought up you go on a name-calling tirade. That’s a lot of built up emotion for a woman you will probably never meet.

Wait…That’s it. You have a crush on Janet. Ooooh. And while you’re doing endless bible-chins, some punk from N’SYNC comes along and gets her first. I’m sorry it happened that way.

Anyway, if this really is the most ignorant comment in the past three months, can I at least get credited for saying it?

ZEB and Janet sittin’ in a tree,
Toddy[/quote]

It may be ignorant, and it sure is funny.
‘bible-chins’ lol
Laughing like a 13 year old watching South Park at the moment.

To put things in perspective, how the hell did Janet Jackson’s nipple come up in this thread? In any thread? What a non-event.
Zeb, there are many more important things to discuss than Janet’s saggy tit.

128

I’m no fan of Bush, but taking issue with him giving a finger, 10-20 years ago, is ridiculous. The Janet Jackson nipple furore? Ridiculous. The storm over Bill Clinton’s liason with chubby Monica? Ridiculous.
Let’s discuss something worthy, like the President’s performance.

129

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I asked several times in other threads, exactly how America alone is now in a better situation due to the war in Iraq happening when it did. I still have yet to get a response to that.

I guess I’ll just have to ask this question in other threads until someone can let me in on the answer. I seriously want to know.

Do you want tangible proof that what we did was the right thing to do?

Give me tangible proof that an alarm system on your car is worth the money you spent on it. Give me tangible proof that locking your door at night keeps burglars out.

We took the war to the enemy. We didn’t do what the french and the anti-war peaceniks wanted - wait until something bad happened - forgetting of course the 3000 bodies in the rubble of the WTC.

We invaded Iraq for a multitude of reasons. The main one being that Iraq, N. Korea, and Iran are the axis of evil - And we could no longer wait for another attack.

If you want tangible proof that we are doing the right thing - other than, no more attacks on American soil, a dictator with direct ties to terror is in prioson, and the leader of AL Qaeda is hiding in a cave - you will have to wait.

I would rather do something and be wrong in your eyes than to do nothing and think that we should have done something.

That’s the best answer I have - so for the love of God - will you quit asking it now?[/quote]

Do you really believe that ‘axis of evil’ shit, Rain (man)?

I don’t know if you missed it, but it looks pretty much like Iran, Iraq and North Korea weren’t behind 9/11. It was Al Qaeda, led by Osama bin Laden. And although Bush would have you believe otherwise, he is not the same man as Saddam Hussein. Also, unless you base your current affairs knowledge on ‘Team America’, there is no proven link between Islamic terrorism and North Korea.

The correct response to 9/11 was to crush Al Qaeda and their Taliban protectors. This was done. This is why there have been no further attacks on America. The Iraq war? Unrelated to 9/11. A colossal waste of money and lives. And an action which has seeded a lot of hatred and may lead to terrorist attacks on America in the future.

130

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Actually, the answer was not there. Are we better off financially? Socially? Are we better off as far as the world view seen by other countries? It is a simple question.

The middle east is more open to democracy and we haven’t been attacked since 9-11.
[/quote]

This isn’t about the middle east (I wrote very clearly that this concerns the US alone) and us not being attacked again could have been approached the same without going into Iraq…by increasing security especially in terms of air travel. Further, the many security warnings that had every military base on alert as well as most cities let us know that there were many in the dark about when or what may happen. That means us not being attacked again is probably more an act of God or fate (for those who don’t like talk of a supreme being)than anything having to do with this administration.

Further, neither of those explain how America is better off due to the war.

131

[quote]deanosumo wrote:
And an action which has seeded a lot of hatred and may lead to terrorist attacks on America in the future.

[/quote]

This point is one that I don’t think many either understand or want to believe. One potential outcome of this war is the creation more prospective terrorists. Anyone who thinks we are in the clear as far as possible futher attacks is living in a fantasy world. One thing many of these people seem to have is patience.

132

[quote]
Right Side Up wrote:
The point is that the people who love giving those “god-like” and “moral” labels to GWB DO [bold!], in fact, despise simple crudeness – such as flipping the bird.

sasquatch wrote:
So you posted it to prove a point–a point which you’re not sure even exists.
I’d say by the responses offered, there is a point to some.[/quote]

I am sure the point exists – it exists as I stated it in the paragraph of mine that you quoted.

[quote]
I’ve never put Bush in the role of diety, and never will. Moral, now that we can argue. You’re entire character is neither established nor diminished by a single act 10 -15 years in your past.

That’s been my offering and will continue to be.[/quote]
Ok.

133

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I asked several times in other threads, exactly how America alone is now in a better situation due to the war in Iraq happening when it did. I still have yet to get a response to that.

I guess I’ll just have to ask this question in other threads until someone can let me in on the answer. I seriously want to know.[/quote]

It’s cause we “smoked 'em outta 'der holes”…and we “track 'em down, and smoke 'em out”…If we don’t kill every terrorist, Prof X, they’ll come into your home and eat your children…it’s time for you to wake up and smell the napalm, my friend…

134

[quote]Professor X wrote:
deanosumo wrote:
And an action which has seeded a lot of hatred and may lead to terrorist attacks on America in the future.

This point is one that I don’t think many either understand or want to believe. One potential outcome of this war is the creation more prospective terrorists. Anyone who thinks we are in the clear as far as possible futher attacks is living in a fantasy world. One thing many of these people seem to have is patience.[/quote]

So it’s been how long now? Almost 4 years?

Hate to break it to you - but it’s been 4 years of no terrorist attacks on either American soil, or american embasies.

I doubt we could say that had the anti-war/let’s-just-talk-to-them crowd gotten their way.

135

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Further, neither of those explain how America is better off due to the war.

[/quote]

When has that ever been a barometer of war, Prof? Answer that question for Viet Nam, Korea, WWII, or WWI.

Was that a promise made by anyone leading up to the war? Why is this your mantra now? It is wrong.

All wars lead to death and destruction. That is the sole purpose of a military - kill people and break things. Who ever does it the best wins.

I say the war has taken the fight to the terrorists - therfore less time and money for them to plot an attack on our soil (which was a reason for the WOT). You say if we only make our airlines safer we would have achieved the same result.

Where’s your proof, prof? I have 4 years of proof on my side - you have your over-bloviated opinion, and that’s about it.

Just admit it - your just mad becasue we’re winning the war, and doing it the exact opposite of how you think it should be done.

136

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Actually, the answer was not there. Are we better off financially? Socially? Are we better off as far as the world view seen by other countries? It is a simple question.

The middle east is more open to democracy and we haven’t been attacked since 9-11.

This isn’t about the middle east (I wrote very clearly that this concerns the US alone) and us not being attacked again could have been approached the same without going into Iraq…by increasing security especially in terms of air travel. Further, the many security warnings that had every military base on alert as well as most cities let us know that there were many in the dark about when or what may happen. That means us not being attacked again is probably more an act of God or fate (for those who don’t like talk of a supreme being)than anything having to do with this administration.

Further, neither of those explain how America is better off due to the war.

[/quote]

I would and will argue that the middle east in it’s current state of moving toward democracy flux makes and will make the US safer.
You’re welcome to disagree with what I say (like I needed to give you permission!), but you cannot say I haven’t answered the question simply because you don’t like the answer.

137

[quote]Right Side Up wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I asked several times in other threads, exactly how America alone is now in a better situation due to the war in Iraq happening when it did. I still have yet to get a response to that.

I guess I’ll just have to ask this question in other threads until someone can let me in on the answer. I seriously want to know.

It’s cause we “smoked 'em outta 'der holes”…and we “track 'em down, and smoke 'em out”…If we don’t kill every terrorist, Prof X, they’ll come into your home and eat your children…it’s time for you to wake up and smell the napalm, my friend…[/quote]

Love the smell of napalm in the morning!

138

[quote]Professor X wrote:
deanosumo wrote:
And an action which has seeded a lot of hatred and may lead to terrorist attacks on America in the future.

This point is one that I don’t think many either understand or want to believe. One potential outcome of this war is the creation more prospective terrorists. Anyone who thinks we are in the clear as far as possible futher attacks is living in a fantasy world. One thing many of these people seem to have is patience.[/quote]

In case you hadn’t noticed, there’s actually a reduction in the number of terrorists. They’re dying by the butt-load (hope the scientific terms don’t scare you so early in the morning), and they’re so busy trying to survive they don’t have time to plan attacks.
Plus they pretty much know we’re serious now, unlike during the Clinton years.

139

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Further, neither of those explain how America is better off due to the war.

When has that ever been a barometer of war, Prof? Answer that question for Viet Nam, Korea, WWII, or WWI.

Was that a promise made by anyone leading up to the war? Why is this your mantra now? It is wrong.

All wars lead to death and destruction. That is the sole purpose of a military - kill people and break things. Who ever does it the best wins.

I say the war has taken the fight to the terrorists - therfore less time and money for them to plot an attack on our soil (which was a reason for the WOT). You say if we only make our airlines safer we would have achieved the same result.

Where’s your proof, prof? I have 4 years of proof on my side - you have your over-bloviated opinion, and that’s about it.

Just admit it - your just mad becasue we’re winning the war, and doing it the exact opposite of how you think it should be done.[/quote]

Four years of proof? How many years before 9/11 had it been since there was a major attack on US soil by terrorists specifically from the middle east? You might as well take credit for that too because that makes about as much sense. It isn’t like we are so wide open that terrorist attacks were going off every week. Not only that, but do you really think you are in the know about every attempt? Do you honestly think there have been no further attempts and that all of those “warnings” were just for show? There may not have been a SUCCESSFUL attempt in four years and I think everyone in this country is greatful of that. However, to think we have been SAFE for those four years is pretty damn naive.

Think about this, to my knowledge, this is not the United States of Iraq. How did we suddenly get turned towards providing for the posterity of another country over our own? That is why I am asking how we are better off in this country due to this war occuring when and how it did. Suddenly, this is about giving Iraq freedom (in itself, not a bad thing at all). There are other people in this world that could benefit from some freedom. Is the goal to now save the rest of the world in the same manner? Is Iraq the worst situation on the planet? Do you believe all of the spin thrown at you or just that which comes from certain news stations?

140

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
I would and will argue that the middle east in it’s current state of moving toward democracy flux makes and will make the US safer.[/quote]

How does it currently make the US safer? Do you believe that “democracy” in Iraq will get rid of all terrorists? Will democracy in Iraq root out Osama? Any speculation about the future is simply that. I am asking about right now.