People might be a bit less gung-ho when there’s the risk of being drafted, or getting their oldest son drafted.
Atm we see all these patriots, also on this forum, ready to invade a county here and there simply because they know it won’t be their boots on the ground.
A draft would spread the burdon of a war more evenly and would bring Darwin one step closer to the stupid.
Of course, most draftees won’t be much use to any modern army.
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Of course, most draftees won’t be much use to any modern army.[/quote]
That’s why they are destined for the front lines…
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
People might be a bit less gung-ho when there’s the risk of being drafted, or getting their oldest son drafted.
Atm we see all these patriots, also on this forum, ready to invade a county here and there simply because they know it won’t be their boots on the ground.
A draft would spread the burdon of a war more evenly and would bring Darwin one step closer to the stupid.
Of course, most draftees won’t be much use to any modern army.[/quote]
How practical or unpractical the draft is is totally irrelevant. You are missing the main point. The draft=slavery. All other points are moot. The fact that this is even something that people consider a valid issue makes me lose a little faith in my fellow man.
mike
I’m not buying your argument on the draft=slavery thing. A draftee would have all of the legal protections of the UCMJ, medical and dental coverage, 400,000 dollars worth of life insurance, 200,000 for thier spouse, the GI Bill, scholarship programs, education grants, and VA benefits. That is a hell of a lot better than slavery.
I dont’ believe the draft is a good idea. I think we are better off increasing the involuntary recall of the Individual Ready Reserve (guys who got out but still have time in the inactive reserve).
I am going through pre-deployment training with a group of involuntary recalled officers and NCO’s and they are professional and quickly snapping back into the Marine Corps.
[quote]BH6 wrote:
I’m not buying your argument on the draft=slavery thing. A draftee would have all of the legal protections of the UCMJ, medical and dental coverage, 400,000 dollars worth of life insurance, 200,000 for thier spouse, the GI Bill, scholarship programs, education grants, and VA benefits. That is a hell of a lot better than slavery.
I dont’ believe the draft is a good idea. I think we are better off increasing the involuntary recall of the Individual Ready Reserve (guys who got out but still have time in the inactive reserve).
I am going through pre-deployment training with a group of involuntary recalled officers and NCO’s and they are professional and quickly snapping back into the Marine Corps. [/quote]
Some Greek and Roman slaves managed whole estates, inlcuding mines, ship yards, agriculture, orchards fish ponds, etc…
They were very well educated, they had excellent medical service, they had their pick among slave girls and the probably did not lack for any luxuries available.
And yet they were slaves.
I do not care how golden exactly your cage is, it is still a cage.
My ideal society would be one in which all relationships between human beings are voluntary on all sides. Anyone violating that rule is a criminal and should be treated as such.
Therefore, that being said, I disagree with any sort of national service. Forcing someone to be good soon turns into the Clockwork Orange Syndrome. Not good.
[quote]BH6 wrote:
I’m not buying your argument on the draft=slavery thing. A draftee would have all of the legal protections of the UCMJ, medical and dental coverage, 400,000 dollars worth of life insurance, 200,000 for thier spouse, the GI Bill, scholarship programs, education grants, and VA benefits. That is a hell of a lot better than slavery.[/quote]
Yeah, but house slaves got treated better than field slaves. They were both slaves. Some slaves had nice slave masters while other slaves got the whip every day. At what point does your level of treatment move you out of slave status?
Besides, when everyone is getting life and medical insurance, plus the GI Bill then we’ve taken another HUGE step toward socialism. I don’t know about you, but I’m trying my best just to hold back today’s democratic neo-lib who is nothing more than a socialist in blue clothing. [quote]
I dont’ believe the draft is a good idea. I think we are better off increasing the involuntary recall of the Individual Ready Reserve (guys who got out but still have time in the inactive reserve).
I am going through pre-deployment training with a group of involuntary recalled officers and NCO’s and they are professional and quickly snapping back into the Marine Corps. [/quote]
Not to get too far off on a tangent, but this is the Marine Corps you’re talking about. There’s one hell of a lot more professionalism there than in the other services. Despite the treatment, if they are being forced into involuntary servitude, then that is definitively slavery.
That said, I do believe in pulling guys from the IRR if necessary. We all know that USMC means “U Signed the Motherfuckin’ Contract”. I did get a little sick of hearing guys whine about it. I never understood how making good on your contract could be considered a “backdoor draft” as the libs called it.
I think a good portion of this draft thing is national pride. We don’t like thinking of the Marines who stormed Tarawa Atoll as being slaves. Many of these people got drafted and it wasn’t a big deal because they felt they needed to serve. Good on them, I would not consider them slaves.
It was a different time and many figured that if they are needed, they’ll be drafted. But any man who is drafted that doesn’t want to join but must do it or face prison time…well my friend, that is a slave.
This is kind of silly but I’m thinking out loud here. Perhaps the solution is something of a voluntary draft. Basically, the draft board sends you a card saying that your number is up and we NEED you. But there are no real consequences to not answering the call, just scorn by society.
Also, it might help get good Americans to enlist if they felt there was a real and worthwhile threat. Now I am pro-Iraq. But perhaps if Jim the steelworker heard, I dunno, a declaration of war by congress then he’d be willing to enlist.
As I have said before, I fought for Iraq and my fellow man, not America. I don’t see how your average American male would feel compelled to fight in this war. When American blood is needed, American men line up. We enlisted post Pearl Harbor and we enlisted in droves post-9/11. Then all of a sudden PFC’s and LCpl’s who enlisted because of 9/11 are picking up cigarette butts around the company office instead of kicking ass. That isn’t exactly a good incentive for the next wave of enlistees.
Semper Fidelis my friend,
mike
[quote]orion wrote:
BH6 wrote:
I’m not buying your argument on the draft=slavery thing. A draftee would have all of the legal protections of the UCMJ, medical and dental coverage, 400,000 dollars worth of life insurance, 200,000 for thier spouse, the GI Bill, scholarship programs, education grants, and VA benefits. That is a hell of a lot better than slavery.
I dont’ believe the draft is a good idea. I think we are better off increasing the involuntary recall of the Individual Ready Reserve (guys who got out but still have time in the inactive reserve).
I am going through pre-deployment training with a group of involuntary recalled officers and NCO’s and they are professional and quickly snapping back into the Marine Corps.
Some Greek and Roman slaves managed whole estates, inlcuding mines, ship yards, agriculture, orchards fish ponds, etc…
They were very well educated, they had excellent medical service, they had their pick among slave girls and the probably did not lack for any luxuries available.
And yet they were slaves.
I do not care how golden exactly your cage is, it is still a cage. [/quote]
I agree.
No country or government tells me when to fight, and I will leave the motherfucker before I fight in a war I consider unjust.
It’s like some guy grabbing your girlfriend’s tit in a bar. You mouth off a little, then maybe end up hitting him or throwing him into a chair or hitting him with a bottle or something. And when the consequences come, you say, “Well, he grabbed her tits. What was I going to do?”
So you go to another bar, sit in the corner and drink your beer because you just got in trouble and you want to be left alone. There’s trouble brewing at this bar though, and some guy walks up and says, “You have to fight for me. We live in the same town.”
And you say, “Well… yea, but I don’t have any problems with that dude you want to fight.”
“No, you don’t understand, you have to.”
“Why?”
“Because you do.”
“But… I don’t really care what happens there, or with you, or with them.”
“I’m not asking. I have a problem with them, which you may or may not understand if I explained it to you, and it likely has to do with money. But anyway, that doesn’t matter cause you have to fight.”
Well, I’d get up and leave the bar, and probably cut that guy’s tires on the way out.
Fucking drafts… never make any sense to me. The whole concept is goofy, and only a sheep would follow it.
I can’t believe there would even really be a discussion about whether or not people should be drafted. Isn’t THE founding principle of America a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? That means, if I don’t want to fight for you, then you cannot make me. It’s kind of sad that people wouldn’t see a problem in being forced (not asked, not voluntary) to ‘defend’ the principle of not being forced to do things.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
My ideal society would be one in which all relationships between human beings are voluntary on all sides. Anyone violating that rule is a criminal and should be treated as such.
Therefore, that being said, I disagree with any sort of national service. Forcing someone to be good soon turns into the Clockwork Orange Syndrome. Not good.[/quote]
For once I agree with you.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
My ideal society would be one in which all relationships between human beings are voluntary on all sides. Anyone violating that rule is a criminal and should be treated as such.
Therefore, that being said, I disagree with any sort of national service. Forcing someone to be good soon turns into the Clockwork Orange Syndrome. Not good.
For once I agree with you.[/quote]
You agree that the draft is “forcing someone to be good?”