this article is a peak at attempts to rejig police training to include more social services type skills in Canada.
When people talk about giving cops (or any government employees) social services training, it’s not an indication of shortcomings within those jobs but of a shortcoming within social services since they are asking other professionals to do their job. The irony is that the same social services people who fail at their jobs are the ones training others.
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No. It’s that cops get called to situations that a social worker would be better equipped to handle, so you have a cop trying to put on a social workers cap, while also trying to wear the cop hat. The vast majority of areas do not have quick response social services teams, so cops are the ones showing up instead.
Cops beat the social services to the scene 99.99% of the time. Social work isnt JUST preventative, it can also be reactionary. This is the point of the defund movement.
Reduce the social worker load on cops, and let cops be cops… I’m sure they’d rather go catch bad guys than talk down the same drunk dumbass for the 3rd time this week. The other thought (I don’t agree with) is to train a kinder, gentler cop. IMO this just splits their training and results in an all around mediocre cop.
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I think a lot of the issue boils down to ill-chosen, inflammatory titles for stuff. If they called it what most intelligent people actually want, it would be called police reform. But, in our age of outrage, clickbait, and overall decline of media quality, people choose catchphrases and titles that overstate the goal and come across as an attack on officers that actually do their job well. There would be a lot more support from blue collar/center-right people if it were titled and discussed reasonably, such as you have above.
I understand people feel like causes won’t get attention if they’re branded reasonably, but we all need to understand that all attention (read: positive and negative) is not the same. 100,000,000 people reading something, with 70,000,000 being pissed and opposed is not as helpful to a cause as 70,000,000 reading it and 60,000,000 supporting.
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Good post
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How many drunk dumbasses have you dealt with in a professional capacity?
How do you know if it is a harmless drunk or one who will swing at the first person to address him? Or her?
What will you say to the first social worker who gets beaten into a coma?
Can you explain a coherent set of conditions where you call in the social workers?
The fact that you still cling to the Defund movement with all of the abysmal human outcomes already in hand is mind boggling to me.
It turns out that woke know-nothings don’t, in fact, have better ideas about policing and community safety simply because they can point to imperfect outcomes and dream up a slogan.
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You being serious or sarcastic? Actually asking, haha, I just would’ve guessed you and California would not see eye to eye on things.
Isn’t that what I said? The shortcomings are within social services.
It’s barely that.
Since it’s probably a violent situation, it will always be that way. So either arm social workers or have the cops be there regardless if a social worker is there.
It isn’t the point. It’s an anticop movement and money grab. How about not worrying about police funding and think about funding social workers… who really won’t change anything anyway since the problems are beyond them.
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I think a plainclothes cop accompanying a team of quick response social workers, and their job would simply to be innocuous as possible while still providing security for the social workers. They would have to work as a team and develop trust and coordination neccessary to stay safe and still effective. It would be the social workers leading, and making the calls about possible use of force, or if the situation was a “police matter” and out of their scope. Regardless, i think some level of protection/security should be present.
More funding for everyone would be great. Make the fed’s machine go Brrrrrr!!!
I don’t think a cop is going to wait for permission to shoot someone.
And it doesn’t sound like we are talking about social workers but men who are trained to physically restrain someone. Like orderlies in an asylum. I wonder if people actually know what social workers are trained to do and how most of them look. They aren’t disarming mentally ill people armed with knives.
In that analogy, the social workers would be the doctors/nurses, and the cop would be the orderly. I wouldn’t expect the social worker to use any physical force at all.
Your imagination sounds like a great place to deal with people who are drunk, on drugs, crazy or any combination thereof.
How do you imagine these things play out? Sobriety doesn’t suddenly wash over someone who is rocked out of their gourd, just because a social worker is present. They either calm down and sleep it off, or not.
The problem with “or not” is answering the question of “what then?”
It’s a numbers game. I only bounced part time. I’ve dealt with thousands of intoxicated people. Out of those, a hundred or so had to be asked to leave. Out of those, maybe 1/4 refused polite requests and had to be forced out. Out of those, maybe a dozen put up a real fight. Out of those, there were at least three I’d call dangerously unhinged. Ready to go to fight, go to jail and probably die right then, right there in that unhinged moment.
What sort of improved outcomes are you imagining? We can ignore the worsening outcomes we’ve experienced in defunded jurisdictions for now. I realize defunding the police is sort of like communism in that it simply hasn’t been done correctly yet.
No true Scotsman, or something…
Then why are they there?
The vast majority of cases where there are police shootings involve someone actively committing a crime. It’s not like the social worker would be called to the scene anyway. Granted there are some cases where a crazy person is shot for not complying, but if they don’t comply when guns are pointed at them it’s doubtful they will comply because a social worker said “pretty please”.
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What did you do in a situation like this? Do you call the cops?
What if they’ve got a knife or a bottle or something? What happens then? Even with self defence tactics (grappling, whatever) chances are you still get cut/stabbed or glassed at LEAST once
Genuinely asking, if the situation is potentially life threatening I’m guessing you wouldn’t want to put your life on the line over some dumbass looking for a barfight
To talk them down in a non threatening manner. Everything about cops puts people on edge, from the siren to the flashing lights to the uniform and yelled commands. Sometimes that’s needed, many other times that worsens the headspace of the subject.
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Yes the police get called the moment I realized we’ve got a violent one. They never got there in time to help, but me yelling at the bartender to call the cops as I’m wrestling an asshole at least let’s tge asshole know the cops are coming and a night in jail is now a possibility.
As for the rest, protect yourself, watch the hands and let your training take over when the whistle blows. There’s no guarantees when things get chippy. I was lucky to never have weapons directly involved. The danger is part of what makes the job tickle my jimmies, same as any other dangerous hobby.
Still, I always placed my safety above all. I’d walk off the job before trying to play superhero. Quitting on the spot and fleeing the danger was always an option.
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I do disagree with 99% of his posts but not that one.
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Agree. The phrase “the only bad publicity is no publicity” only applies to celebrities. Everywhere else there is definitely such a thing as bad publicity.
Bingo. We had patrolling cops walking the area of the bars I worked, so the response was much quicker but still exactly this. You have to take control asap and protect yourself at all times, and basically try to control or defuse until the cops get there. And when I say “defuse” I mean physically restrain because usually at that point it’s the only option.
The unhinged ones will never comply, but if you can at least get the others to think twice or hesitate on escalation it makes it much easier to control and remove.
Not an option at all places but the other rule is never go 1-on-1 if you have other bouncers on duty. First guy tries to talk/defuse, and if possible relay radio for backup prior to engaging. Not always possible so in that case it is restrain and control until reinforcement gets there and you can use teamwork to remove the offender.
Social workers are trained to do that?
People, or criminals? And given how people talk to cops and resist arrest, they don’t seem that on edge.