Osama Bin Laden is Dead

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
302

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

See?

I knew someone would be up to the task.

Maybe you could take some time to think about the fact that when Hitler came to power he had much less of an army and much less power as a chancellor than any current American president has.

Now all you need to do is fall on hard times and the stage is already set.

But wait, no, that cannot be, because we all know that the German people were much less educated and civilised than their Anglosaxon counterparts.

[/quote]

‘Hitler…had much less power as chancellor than any current American president has?’

  • Last time I checked America only had one President and he has yet to burn down the Senate/House of Reps, blame it on the Republicans and declare marshall law.[/quote]

Yes- Someone has yet to do it.

Or, if you ask the 9-11 truther crowd, someone already has done it.

Does not matter, when he does he will find everything he needs already in place and a population that has grown accustomed to the most outrageous abuses of power and is firmly hanging on the states teat.

303

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]JESGPY wrote:
Man I live confortably down here.
[/quote]
Ah, so then you are one of the 10 percent or so that has about half the wealth? No wonder you think you have time to bitch about the US.

Various poverty estimates suggest that 30-50% of the population is poor.[35] In rural areas, 41.20% of the people lack a monthly income to cover basic necessities, whereas in urban centers this figure is 27.6%. The top 10% of the population holds 43.8% of the national income, while the lowest 10% has 0.5%

Perhaps that 30 - 50% in poverty in your country would you prefer that you do something about your own government?

[quote]JESGPY wrote:
Its you guys (Americans) the one that suffer the problems your country causes. You are the ones that live in fear, you are the ones that have their freedoms taken away so that you can be “better protected”, you are the ones that have friends and family sent fight a nonsense war.
[/quote]

Oh? Then maybe you should mind your own business, and let us worry about that? After all, it is WE who suffer, right?

But thanks for your concern.[/quote]

Still looking it from the wrong side.
I am not anti US people. I will state it once more.

Also if you want to make a research of my country:

  • Look on somewhere better than wikipedia.

  • You obviously dont know what your country placed military dictatorships in many countries in latin american. Yes they did it with the help of few of our own people. But many more were against it and were tortured, killed, or exiled because of that.

304

[quote]JESGPY wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]JESGPY wrote:
Man I live confortably down here.
[/quote]
Ah, so then you are one of the 10 percent or so that has about half the wealth? No wonder you think you have time to bitch about the US.

Various poverty estimates suggest that 30-50% of the population is poor.[35] In rural areas, 41.20% of the people lack a monthly income to cover basic necessities, whereas in urban centers this figure is 27.6%. The top 10% of the population holds 43.8% of the national income, while the lowest 10% has 0.5%

Perhaps that 30 - 50% in poverty in your country would you prefer that you do something about your own government?

[quote]JESGPY wrote:
Its you guys (Americans) the one that suffer the problems your country causes. You are the ones that live in fear, you are the ones that have their freedoms taken away so that you can be “better protected”, you are the ones that have friends and family sent fight a nonsense war.
[/quote]

Oh? Then maybe you should mind your own business, and let us worry about that? After all, it is WE who suffer, right?

But thanks for your concern.[/quote]

Still looking it from the wrong side.
I am not anti US people. I will state it once more.

Also if you want to make a research of my country:

  • Look on somewhere better than wikipedia.

  • You obviously dont know what your country placed military dictatorships in many countries in latin american. Yes they did it with the help of few of our own people. But many more were against it and were tortured, killed, or exiled because of that.

[/quote]

Well, you obviously do not get it.

America the continent, America the people, America the government, all one and the same, all one giant, amorphous blob.

To be fair Americas school system is not hell bent on raising discriminating young gentlemen because dicrimination is bad mmkay?

305

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

See?

I knew someone would be up to the task.

Maybe you could take some time to think about the fact that when Hitler came to power he had much less of an army and much less power as a chancellor than any current American president has.

Now all you need to do is fall on hard times and the stage is already set.

But wait, no, that cannot be, because we all know that the German people were much less educated and civilised than their Anglosaxon counterparts.

[/quote]

‘Hitler…had much less power as chancellor than any current American president has?’

  • Last time I checked America only had one President and he has yet to burn down the Senate/House of Reps, blame it on the Republicans and declare marshall law.[/quote]

Yes- Someone has yet to do it.

Or, if you ask the 9-11 truther crowd, someone already has done it.

Does not matter, when he does he will find everything he needs already in place and a population that has grown accustomed to the most outrageous abuses of power and is firmly hanging on the states teat.

[/quote]

Wow, you really are fucking nuts aren’t you? I thought you were just a lonely young troll with some sort of personality disorder. Goodbye.

306

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

Which enlightened, humane, and transcendental country are you a citizen of, then?[/quote]

He has answered where he is from on the previous page.
[/quote]

Yeah, I edited my note to that effect, but it didn’t “stick” for some reason…

I also pointed out the very serious domestic problems his country has (like unfair distribution of wealth), and suggested he may want to hate his own government before he attends to ours…[/quote]

Yes, I edited my post as well because I did not want to appear to be intruding.

But your point above is interesting because I showed this post to my husband and he said something in the same lines as yourself.

Do these countries not ask and welcome US help and intervention? Is it fair to then complain that the superpower “gives to get” ( if that is what the perception of help from the USA is?).

In a way, isn’t there a similarity between codependent relationships between people? it takes two to tango, so are countries in South America really to resent US relations with them? Couldn’t they just have said “No, thanks for your help USA. We can help ourselves.”

Would Brazil, for example be where they are now without the help from the USA?
Brazil owes a huge debt to the USA:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/08/us-brazil-debt.php
[/quote]

“The countries” do no such thing, ever, some parts of their population do.

Not surprisingly they usually end up in power afterwards.

[/quote]

I am not stupid.
Of course I meant the collective parts of the population that are in control of the power and are symbolically represented by “The countries.”
That is self evident just as “I” am not my country and yet when I say my country I mean “my place of birth.”

And yes, I agree that that is how it ends up in power.

307

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

See?

I knew someone would be up to the task.

Maybe you could take some time to think about the fact that when Hitler came to power he had much less of an army and much less power as a chancellor than any current American president has.

Now all you need to do is fall on hard times and the stage is already set.

But wait, no, that cannot be, because we all know that the German people were much less educated and civilised than their Anglosaxon counterparts.

[/quote]

‘Hitler…had much less power as chancellor than any current American president has?’

  • Last time I checked America only had one President and he has yet to burn down the Senate/House of Reps, blame it on the Republicans and declare marshall law.[/quote]

Yes- Someone has yet to do it.

Or, if you ask the 9-11 truther crowd, someone already has done it.

Does not matter, when he does he will find everything he needs already in place and a population that has grown accustomed to the most outrageous abuses of power and is firmly hanging on the states teat.

[/quote]

Wow, you really are fucking nuts aren’t you? I thought you were just a lonely young troll with some sort of personality disorder. Goodbye.[/quote]

You get a medal too.

You seem the type that would appreciate it.

edit: also, it never fails to amaze me that people most fond of Nazi references invariably know the least about its history.

I wonder what American history classes look like, from the results I would guess that it isa neverending stream of uncivilized and uninlightened savages that are in dire need of some good old American rescuing.

One wonders why they teach it at all.

308

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

Which enlightened, humane, and transcendental country are you a citizen of, then?[/quote]

He has answered where he is from on the previous page.
[/quote]

Yeah, I edited my note to that effect, but it didn’t “stick” for some reason…

I also pointed out the very serious domestic problems his country has (like unfair distribution of wealth), and suggested he may want to hate his own government before he attends to ours…[/quote]

Yes, I edited my post as well because I did not want to appear to be intruding.

But your point above is interesting because I showed this post to my husband and he said something in the same lines as yourself.

Do these countries not ask and welcome US help and intervention? Is it fair to then complain that the superpower “gives to get” ( if that is what the perception of help from the USA is?).

In a way, isn’t there a similarity between codependent relationships between people? it takes two to tango, so are countries in South America really to resent US relations with them? Couldn’t they just have said “No, thanks for your help USA. We can help ourselves.”

Would Brazil, for example be where they are now without the help from the USA?
Brazil owes a huge debt to the USA:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/08/us-brazil-debt.php
[/quote]

“The countries” do no such thing, ever, some parts of their population do.

Not surprisingly they usually end up in power afterwards.

[/quote]

I am not stupid.
Of course I meant the collective parts of the population that are in control of the power and are symbolically represented by “The countries.”
That is self evident just as “I” am not my country and yet when I say my country I mean “my place of birth.”

And yes, I agree that that is how it ends up in power.[/quote]

But those “collective parts” usually are not in power.

Nobody asked Karsai or whoever the curcent puppet in Iraq is to represent them.

To find someone who aks for “help” cannot be that hard to do in a country of several million and can hardly be reason enough to bomb them to your hearts delight to “help”.

309

[quote]orion wrote:

But those “collective parts” usually are not in power.

Nobody asked Karsai or whoever the curcent puppet in Iraq is to represent them.

To find someone who aks for “help” cannot be that hard to do in a country of several million and can hardly be reason enough to bomb them to your hearts delight to “help”.

[/quote]

I had Brazil specifically in mind, and yes, the money borrowed from the "help"they asked ends up not in the hands of the favela children or the poverty stricken population but in the hands of the 10% privileged already mentioned.

The bombing of other countries and their single dictators ( who feel entitled to kill their own people by right, anyway - so it seems a damned if I do damned if I don’t situation to me, with or without US force/help.) is not something I can comment on - that is a different kind of dance then the relations the USA has with Brazil, for example.

310

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

But those “collective parts” usually are not in power.

Nobody asked Karsai or whoever the curcent puppet in Iraq is to represent them.

To find someone who aks for “help” cannot be that hard to do in a country of several million and can hardly be reason enough to bomb them to your hearts delight to “help”.

[/quote]

I had Brazil specifically in mind, and yes, the money borrowed from the "help"they asked ends up not in the hands of the favela children or the poverty stricken population but in the hands of the 10% privileged already mentioned.

The bombing of other countries and their single dictators ( who feel entitled to kill their own people by right, anyway - so it seems a damned if I do damned if I don’t situation to me, with or without US force/help.) is not something I can comment on - that is a different kind of dance then the relations the USA has with Brazil, for example.

[/quote]

If you ever find the time, please read De bello gallico from Gaius Julius Caesar.

Would you believe hat he was asked for help so often that he conquered all of Gaul, killed 1/3 of the population, enslaved another 1/3. but thoroughly freed the remaining 1/3?

Thank God that he was around, eh?

311

Orion, do you have the right to use even violence in a bid to liberate yourself from the rule of a despotic tyrant?

312

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Orion, do you have the right to use even violence in a bid to liberate yourself from the rule of a despotic tyrant?[/quote]

Yes.

313

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Orion, do you have the right to use even violence in a bid to liberate yourself from the rule of a despotic tyrant?[/quote]

Yes.

[/quote]

Is that inherent to you as an individual, or does it depend on the consensus of the nation you reside in?

315

[quote]Deorum wrote:

[quote]JESGPY wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]JESGPY wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]JESGPY wrote:
I read many of the posts in here.
I just cant believe some still buy the lies your government feeds you.

There a simple reasons for everything that happens to you people.

You have a government that is managed by a group of people that gives a fuck about anyone, its all about profit and power. They will spare any lives to reach that goal, being that American lives or from any nationality.

They have used the rest of the world as their backyard. Placed dicatators in Central and South America. Invaded coutries for their oil(Iraq is one of the last ones). They make YOU AMERICAN CITIZENS live in FEAR so that you approve any measure they propose. They are taking away your freedom and you are aplauding them.
The whole world if tired of your government and thats why we have Islamic fanatics and people like that.
Dont think that they are the only ones that hate you government, here in south america, we despise it too.

But you gotta have ONE THING very clear…
THE WORLD AGAINST THE CITIZENS FROM THE U.S. IT AGAINTS ITS GOVERNMENT.
IF you want to change that feeling many have towards your country stop playing the victim role and open your eyes and see the world has been the victim of your country. And to change that you gotta start doing something.

[/quote]

Let me guess, you aren’t from America, right?
[/quote]

Yes.
And will say it once more.
I dont dislke or hate Americans. Its just unfair what your government does to the world in the name of your nation for the benefit of a few.
Just think about it. Who pays the price. You citizens, with the people that died in S-11 and the soldeirs that die every day fighting for them to profit.[/quote]

So wait, let’s just take one thing at a time here. I understand English is not your first language (I’m guessing European…Italian?), so perhaps this is just an issue of miscommunication, but, are you saying that the victims of the September 11th mass murder died because of American actions? Like, Noam Chomsky style science fiction type stuff?
[/quote]

I am from Paraguay, South America. I studied english since I 5 years old.
I meant to say what you understood.
what this video, this is one of many others that show what S-11 really was.

[/quote]

It’s scary how much concrete evidence there is suggesting that we were not told the whole truth on that day. And even scarier is how people defend the original story using the see no evil hear no evil approach.
[/quote]
hah. {lease tell me which piece of evidence indicates an inside job on 9/11, which has not already been explained to death on the interwebz.

316

[quote]orion wrote:
Yes- Someone has yet to do it.

Or, if you ask the 9-11 truther crowd, someone already has done it.

Does not matter, when he does he will find everything he needs already in place and a population that has grown accustomed to the most outrageous abuses of power and is firmly hanging on the states teat.

[/quote]

I believe what I said, the stage is set. I agree…though I doubt it will turn out the way you suspect, because I believe it would already have happened. If the fascists didn’t sieze control directly after 9-11, at our most dire circumstances, I doubt they will now.

317

I don’t post much, but topic’s like this do bring me out of the wood work so to speak. I think a person would be quite naive to believe any thing that the U.S government puts out through it’s P.R department (the mass media). If any one here spends just a little bit of time researching and studying the past history of what the U.S govt( many governments) has been involved in and actually admitted involvement in, it’s quite shocking.

A good example is the CIA’s Project MKULTRA, or MK-ULTRA, which was the code name for a covert, illegal CIA human “mind control” research program, run by the Office of Scientific Intelligence. This official U.S. government program began in the early 1950s, continuing through the late 1960s and well in the 1970’s and it used U.S. and Canadian citizens ( against their will) as its test subjects, MKULTRA involved the use of many methodologies to manipulate individual mental states and alter brain functions, including the surreptitious administration of drugs and other chemicals, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, and verbal and sexual abuse (even ritual child sexual abuse)

It got so bad that congress finally began an “investigation” in the 1970’s and ended up giving the CIA a slap on the wrist, and the CIA promised to end the program. Yet is it common knowledge that this sadistic so called “research” continued under different names. People please don’t just consume what the government/mass media put’s on the table in front of you. Step back and take a look at the bigger picture and this giant charade that is the “war on terror”. I also want to make it clear, that I’m not adding to this discussion to belittle or insult anyone, just exchange idea’s and different view points.

319

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]limburg wrote:
Well there are several different sets of beliefs on here. I’m not going to go of on a rant but I need to get some questions out there.

  1. If the US has such a horrible government, why are so many people risking lives trying to live under it?
  2. What freedoms do you have in your country that the US does NOT have?
  3. What freedoms do Americans have that are crimes where you live?
  4. Do you believe that women are cattle and should not recieve schooling or have any rights?
  5. Do you think people should die because they do not believe what you believe?
  6. What are you willing to do to preserve YOUR way of life?

[/quote]

I have the right not to be gangraped when I want to board a plane.

I have the right not to have all my bank transactions monitored and photocopied.

I have the right not to be kidnapped or murdered just because my president says so.

I have the right not to be indefinitely detained.

I have the right not to have my doctors or lawyers records being copied without me even knowing it.

I hav the right not to have my belongings confiscated just because some dick with a badge thinks its drug money.

I have the right not to have piled charges upon charges piled on me until I plead guilty just so that I do not spend an eternity in jail.

I have the right to be reasonably sure that no cop is going to break into my home, beat me up or kill me without any repercussions whatsoever.

I have the right to a trial where the government needs to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that I am guilty.

I do not live in a country where the IRS, immigration or the fucking fish and wildlife administration has pimped out SWAT teams.

I have the right not to have my house surrounded and my wife and child killed by a sniper.

I have a right not to be taxed even if I make my money outside of my country.

I have the right to not have every phone call and e-mail monitored.

I have the right to get a passport without having to fill out a form demanding to know whether my uncles pediatritian was circumsized or had halitosis.

I have the right to cross to cross the border with being submitted to intense questioning, heavy fondling or hour long waiting lines, in fact I crossed it several times without even knowing it. I did find out though at the next village for my Hungarian is nonexistent.

Is that enought for starters or do we need more?

[/quote]

Pay attention, boys and girls.

This is what happens when non-Americans become “experts” on the US via an internet education. [/quote]

Heh, that’s Orion for ya. One of those America-haters. Great list though. It made for a good read. I lol’d. Crazy Austrian. If only he were born a few misspellings away he might have made a chilled out Australian.

320

Orion,

If you are in fear of losing your rights, don’t like these laws, or don’t like your country using the military to stop potential terrorist attacks, what’s the solution? Ignore the radical muslims who preach hatred of the West and maybe they’ll go away? Is that the solution? Or is there none?

321

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Orion,

If you are in fear of losing your rights, don’t like these laws, or don’t like your country using the military to stop potential terrorist attacks, what’s the solution? Ignore the radical muslims who preach hatred of the West and maybe they’ll go away? Is that the solution? Or is there none? [/quote]

Where would they go to?

The Taliban were perfectly happy in Afghanistan, Iraq may or may not have sponsored terror in Israel with is regrettable but not really my problem.

Given the rebellions the other countries in the Middle East have probably also other problems, but I guess that was not good enough, because American forces simply had to intervene, didnt they.

Also, I do not think that terrorism is that big a problem, even a 9-11 each year costs less lived than slippery bathtubs each year and I guess we would not torture people or declare a war on sanitary installations because of it, though I am not entirely sure at this point.