[quote]fncj wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Presented without comment.[/quote]
Like us, elephants experience grief and mourn their dead. If the baby were to see where the mother was buried, he’d visit the grave as an adult.
[/quote]
Has that been observed?
The cat in the video is defending his territory. And everything within it he regards as his. Your relevance is limited to whether he perceives you as his property.
A dog will defend his owner because instinct tells him that his own survival is dependant on higher members of his pack. Which means he can just as easily be ‘loyal’ to someone else as long as he regards that person as pack leader. Who his leader is is irrelevant.
Both are capable of forming an actual bond with their owners given time but display it in completely different ways.
Everything else is human projection. They are animals.
In short;
dogs are the world’s greatest ass kissers
cats own you
elephants are not suitable house pets
[quote]fncj wrote:
As for the side topic of the protective cat, what we are seeing is an exception not a rule. Dogs are just better. I never understood the need to have a discussion to say otherwise.[/quote]
This not true if the cat perceives a child to be like one of her kittens. This protective nature is not uncommon although the situation in the vid is. The cat was female IIRC. The rest is subjective.
[quote]dt79 wrote:
The cat in the video is defending his territory. And everything within it he regards as his. Your relevance is limited to whether he perceives you as his property.
A dog will defend his owner because instinct tells him that his own survival is dependant on higher members of his pack. Which means he can just as easily be ‘loyal’ to someone else as long as he regards that person as pack leader. Who his leader is is irrelevant.
Both are capable of forming an actual bond with their owners given time but display it in completely different ways.
Everything else is human projection. They are animals.
In short;
dogs are the world’s greatest ass kissers
cats own you
elephants are not suitable house pets[/quote]
Good post.
Great ending! lol
[quote]dt79 wrote:
The cat in the video is defending his territory. And everything within it he regards as his. Your relevance is limited to whether he perceives you as his property.
A dog will defend his owner because instinct tells him that his own survival is dependant on higher members of his pack. Which means he can just as easily be ‘loyal’ to someone else as long as he regards that person as pack leader. Who his leader is is irrelevant.
Both are capable of forming an actual bond with their owners given time but display it in completely different ways.
Everything else is human projection. They are animals.
In short;
dogs are the world’s greatest ass kissers
cats own you
elephants are not suitable house pets[/quote]
Largely true however cats aren’t capable of bonding to their owners. Certainly not to the extent of dogs. And your point about dogs and pack leaders doesn’t really mean much as the same applies to people. If someone adopts a child that child becomes attached to its adoptive parents and not to its biological parents. If that child is given to other adoptive parents s/he will bond with them.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Aristotle said elephants are “the animal which surpasses all others in wit and mind.”
[/quote]
Let’s forgive Aristotle since animal biology was hardly a developed field back then.
If it was, he’d surely have included dolphins and octopi.
And chimps of course, given how similar their DNA is to ours.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
The cat in the video is defending his territory. And everything within it he regards as his. Your relevance is limited to whether he perceives you as his property.
A dog will defend his owner because instinct tells him that his own survival is dependant on higher members of his pack. Which means he can just as easily be ‘loyal’ to someone else as long as he regards that person as pack leader. Who his leader is is irrelevant.
Both are capable of forming an actual bond with their owners given time but display it in completely different ways.
Everything else is human projection. They are animals.
In short;
dogs are the world’s greatest ass kissers
cats own you
elephants are not suitable house pets[/quote]
Largely true however cats aren’t capable of bonding to their owners. Certainly not to the extent of dogs. And your point about dogs and pack leaders doesn’t really mean much as the same applies to people. If someone adopts a child that child becomes attached to its adoptive parents and not to its biological parents. If that child is given to other adoptive parents s/he will bond with them.[/quote]
Cats behavior is highly variable. My cats literally act like human children and are attached to me to the point of annoyance.
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
The cat in the video is defending his territory. And everything within it he regards as his. Your relevance is limited to whether he perceives you as his property.
A dog will defend his owner because instinct tells him that his own survival is dependant on higher members of his pack. Which means he can just as easily be ‘loyal’ to someone else as long as he regards that person as pack leader. Who his leader is is irrelevant.
Both are capable of forming an actual bond with their owners given time but display it in completely different ways.
Everything else is human projection. They are animals.
In short;
dogs are the world’s greatest ass kissers
cats own you
elephants are not suitable house pets[/quote]
Largely true however cats aren’t capable of bonding to their owners. Certainly not to the extent of dogs. And your point about dogs and pack leaders doesn’t really mean much as the same applies to people. If someone adopts a child that child becomes attached to its adoptive parents and not to its biological parents. If that child is given to other adoptive parents s/he will bond with them.[/quote]
Cats behavior is highly variable. My cats literally act like human children and are attached to me to the point of annoyance.[/quote]
One of my dogs jumped the fence and escaped. It took me about six weeks to find where he was. When I went to pick him up he went absolutely insane and jumped up into my arms and wrapped his arms around me so tightly I had to physically pry him off to get into the car. I can’t imagine a cat behaving like that.
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Aristotle said elephants are “the animal which surpasses all others in wit and mind.”
[/quote]
Let’s forgive Aristotle since animal biology was hardly a developed field back then.
If it was, he’d surely have included dolphins and octopi.
And chimps of course, given how similar their DNA is to ours.
[/quote]
Chimps are evil and vicious, just like humans.
When they attack, they always seek to tear off face, genitalia, etc.
They are cute and apparently fairly lovable as babies. But at some point they “grow up”, the switch clicks, and it’s game over for any human nearby if said chimp happens to be upset. And you’ve never seen a chimp very upset, because you’d be dead, or at the very least blind…
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
The cat in the video is defending his territory. And everything within it he regards as his. Your relevance is limited to whether he perceives you as his property.
A dog will defend his owner because instinct tells him that his own survival is dependant on higher members of his pack. Which means he can just as easily be ‘loyal’ to someone else as long as he regards that person as pack leader. Who his leader is is irrelevant.
Both are capable of forming an actual bond with their owners given time but display it in completely different ways.
Everything else is human projection. They are animals.
In short;
dogs are the world’s greatest ass kissers
cats own you
elephants are not suitable house pets[/quote]
Largely true however cats aren’t capable of bonding to their owners. Certainly not to the extent of dogs. And your point about dogs and pack leaders doesn’t really mean much as the same applies to people. If someone adopts a child that child becomes attached to its adoptive parents and not to its biological parents. If that child is given to other adoptive parents s/he will bond with them.[/quote]
Cats behavior is highly variable. My cats literally act like human children and are attached to me to the point of annoyance.[/quote]
One of my dogs jumped the fence and escaped. It took me about six weeks to find where he was. When I went to pick him up he went absolutely insane and jumped up into my arms and wrapped his arms around me so tightly I had to physically pry him off to get into the car. I can’t imagine a cat behaving like that.[/quote]
Isn’t the fact that your dog ran away evidence that his bond to you is not as strong as you think it is?
For comparison, my in laws have 2 out door cats. They come and go as they please and routinely leave headless mice as presents on their door steps.
When my in laws moved to a house, about 10 miles away, they couldn’t find one of the cats because it was out hunting somewhere. They went back the next day to the old house to look for it and still couldn’t find it. And went back a third day. No luck.
That night the cat showed up outside of the back door of the new house which it had never even been to.
Not to mention that your whole premise is flawed. Cats and dogs are different species and the fact that a cat doesn’t jump up on you and hug you doesn’t mean it isn’t excited to see you.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Isn’t the fact that your dog ran away evidence that his bond to you is not as strong as you think it is?
[/quote]
Not at all. Working dogs in particular get bored fenced in on their own. He went exploring without the foresight to realise he might not find his way home.
How charming. Cats also kill native birds, lizards - anything they can. They’re a menace to the environment.
How does a cat show its excitement. If cats are as sociable and integrated into the family as you suggest, how do these traits manifest themselves?
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
That night the cat showed up outside of the back door of the new house which it had never even been to.
[/quote]
There sure are a lot of 12 pound Orange Tabbies out there.
Sorry for being a pessimistic prick.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
The cat in the video is defending his territory. And everything within it he regards as his. Your relevance is limited to whether he perceives you as his property.
A dog will defend his owner because instinct tells him that his own survival is dependant on higher members of his pack. Which means he can just as easily be ‘loyal’ to someone else as long as he regards that person as pack leader. Who his leader is is irrelevant.
Both are capable of forming an actual bond with their owners given time but display it in completely different ways.
Everything else is human projection. They are animals.
In short;
dogs are the world’s greatest ass kissers
cats own you
elephants are not suitable house pets[/quote]
Largely true however cats aren’t capable of bonding to their owners. Certainly not to the extent of dogs. And your point about dogs and pack leaders doesn’t really mean much as the same applies to people. If someone adopts a child that child becomes attached to its adoptive parents and not to its biological parents. If that child is given to other adoptive parents s/he will bond with them.[/quote]
Cats behavior is highly variable. My cats literally act like human children and are attached to me to the point of annoyance.[/quote]
One of my dogs jumped the fence and escaped. It took me about six weeks to find where he was. When I went to pick him up he went absolutely insane and jumped up into my arms and wrapped his arms around me so tightly I had to physically pry him off to get into the car. I can’t imagine a cat behaving like that.[/quote]
This is literally every day when I get home from work. They will literally climb my clothes and cradle themselves into my arms/shoulder like a baby would lay and hold my clothes with their claws so it’s a pain in the ass to put them down.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
How charming. Cats also kill native birds, lizards - anything they can. They’re a menace to the environment.
[/quote]
o rly? see pic
[quote]
How does a cat show its excitement. If cats are as sociable and integrated into the family as you suggest, how do these traits manifest themselves?[/quote]
Great argument.
…________
…,.-'"…~., .............................,.-"..................................."-., .........................,/...............................................":, .....................,?......................................................, .................../...........................................................,} ................./......................................................,:`^`..} .............../...................................................,:"........./ ..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../ ............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../ .........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/ ..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....} ...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../ ...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....}............../ ............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-" ............/.`~,......`-...................................../ .............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__ ,,_..........}.>-._...................................|..............`=~-, .....`=~-,__......`,................................. ...................`=~-,,.,............................... ................................`:,,...........................`..............__ .....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==
……,-%…`
…,
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
The cat in the video is defending his territory. And everything within it he regards as his. Your relevance is limited to whether he perceives you as his property.
A dog will defend his owner because instinct tells him that his own survival is dependant on higher members of his pack. Which means he can just as easily be ‘loyal’ to someone else as long as he regards that person as pack leader. Who his leader is is irrelevant.
Both are capable of forming an actual bond with their owners given time but display it in completely different ways.
Everything else is human projection. They are animals.
In short;
dogs are the world’s greatest ass kissers
cats own you
elephants are not suitable house pets[/quote]
Largely true however cats aren’t capable of bonding to their owners. Certainly not to the extent of dogs. And your point about dogs and pack leaders doesn’t really mean much as the same applies to people. If someone adopts a child that child becomes attached to its adoptive parents and not to its biological parents. If that child is given to other adoptive parents s/he will bond with them.[/quote]
Cats behavior is highly variable. My cats literally act like human children and are attached to me to the point of annoyance.[/quote]
One of my dogs jumped the fence and escaped. It took me about six weeks to find where he was. When I went to pick him up he went absolutely insane and jumped up into my arms and wrapped his arms around me so tightly I had to physically pry him off to get into the car. I can’t imagine a cat behaving like that.[/quote]
This is literally every day when I get home from work. They will literally climb my clothes and cradle themselves into my arms/shoulder like a baby would lay and hold my clothes with their claws so it’s a pain in the ass to put them down.
[/quote]
My advice; don’t let them. Keep emotionally distant and don’t ever let your dogs in the house. Use a choker collar when walking. Dogs will walk all over you if you let them. Remain aloof and you’ll get much better behaviour. They’ll also respect you more.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
o rly? see pic
[/quote]
That pic shows that cats don’t kill lizards and native birds? How silly of me. Cat chasing dog = cats don’t kill native animals. Of course it’s so obvious. I feel so foolish now.
[quote]
Great argument.
…________
…,.-'"…~., .............................,.-"..................................."-., .........................,/...............................................":, .....................,?......................................................, .................../...........................................................,} ................./......................................................,:`^`..} .............../...................................................,:"........./ ..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../ ............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../ .........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/ ..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....} ...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../ ...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....}............../ ............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-" ............/.`~,......`-...................................../ .............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__ ,,_..........}.>-._...................................|..............`=~-, .....`=~-,__......`,................................. ...................`=~-,,.,............................... ................................`:,,...........................`..............__ .....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==
……,-%…`
…, [/quote]
A face palm? How can one argue with that? Touché sir. You really crafted a brilliant response there. Hats off to you my friend. I must concede that you have outwitted me.
Wow SM, let me spell it out for you.
Their was a child in an environment called a driveway. An animal decided to be a menace to that child.
Can you guess which animal it was?
Now in my heirarchy of life, child>lizards=birds.
You should feel foolish, your entire argument has been built on a foundation of mud.
This has been self-evident to others in this thread, but yourself? Not so much.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Wow SM, let me spell it out for you.
Their was a child in an environment called a driveway. An animal decided to be a menace to that child.
Can you guess which animal it was?
Now in my heirarchy of life, child>lizards=birds.
You should feel foolish, your entire argument has been built on a foundation of mud.
This has been self-evident to others in this thread, but yourself? Not so much.
[/quote]
Afraid not. Your argument makes no sense. My assertion: cats kill native animals. Your attempt at refutation: cat saves child. The two things have nothing to do with each other.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
The cat in the video is defending his territory. And everything within it he regards as his. Your relevance is limited to whether he perceives you as his property.
A dog will defend his owner because instinct tells him that his own survival is dependant on higher members of his pack. Which means he can just as easily be ‘loyal’ to someone else as long as he regards that person as pack leader. Who his leader is is irrelevant.
Both are capable of forming an actual bond with their owners given time but display it in completely different ways.
Everything else is human projection. They are animals.
In short;
dogs are the world’s greatest ass kissers
cats own you
elephants are not suitable house pets[/quote]
Largely true however cats aren’t capable of bonding to their owners. Certainly not to the extent of dogs. And your point about dogs and pack leaders doesn’t really mean much as the same applies to people. If someone adopts a child that child becomes attached to its adoptive parents and not to its biological parents. If that child is given to other adoptive parents s/he will bond with them.[/quote]
Cats behavior is highly variable. My cats literally act like human children and are attached to me to the point of annoyance.[/quote]
One of my dogs jumped the fence and escaped. It took me about six weeks to find where he was. When I went to pick him up he went absolutely insane and jumped up into my arms and wrapped his arms around me so tightly I had to physically pry him off to get into the car. I can’t imagine a cat behaving like that.[/quote]
I’ve had 1 cat in my life that was ever truly MY cat and she was cool as shit. She used to eat herself chunky on her food and then disappear for a week or more at a time and then come back from her journey excited to see me and slightly malnourished. She would spend a few months at home and repeat the process. Every time she came home it was a leap up into my arms and head nudging, purring, and all the other cat love things. She was always so nice and would bring me live animals as gifts too. Awesome fucking cat- still miss her.
Having said that, we will be getting a dog soon and doubtful we will be getting a cat for a while.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Wow SM, let me spell it out for you.
Their was a child in an environment called a driveway. An animal decided to be a menace to that child.
Can you guess which animal it was?
Now in my heirarchy of life, child>lizards=birds.
You should feel foolish, your entire argument has been built on a foundation of mud.
This has been self-evident to others in this thread, but yourself? Not so much.
[/quote]
Afraid not. Your argument makes no sense. My assertion: cats kill native animals. Your attempt at refutation: cat saves child. The two things have nothing to do with each other.
[/quote]
No, you said cats are a menace to the environment because they kill animals.
My refutation was that dogs attack kids and is far worse.
Quit moving the goal posts.