Oral Cycle...

Pharma / TRT
1

While I’ve lurked this section for quite some time, this is my first post. Let me preface by saying that I do/did NOT want to do an oral only cycle…but it’s sort of headed that way. I respect the opinions and advice of all the seasoned pros that post here. I’ve learned more from this board than anywhere else.

Stats first:
Age: 24
6’2", 210- 14% bf
Lifting 4+ years.
5 days a week, w 1-2 off days- for hockey practice/games
Never ran a cycle before

Not the best diet, but I WILL be cleaning it up prior to February when I hope to start this.

Initially what I wanted to do was just a 10-12 wk cycle of Test. around 500-600mg wk. (I thought it might be easier to do 600mg rather than 500 if I do EOD- 200mg a piece; but I’m not sure if that’s TOO much per injection or too frequent/high dose for inj. for a newb)

I also wanted to run armidex with that (.25mg/day seems to be the standard) because I plan on using Propecia during this cycle (in case of any hair loss issues; yes I have a prescription; aware that finasteride blocks test to DHT conversion and that DHT is an antagonist of estrogen- therefore it would be almost necessary to have an AI or SERM)
And then taper off.

A pretty basic first cycle (and please correct anything you find wrong with it) so why am I not doing it?

1)I don’t feel comfortable giving myself injections- I don’t have a problem at all with needles, but having never done this before and with no one to “guide me” or show me the ropes, I’m very hesitant. I’m sure once you’ve done it enough, it’s not a big deal- but after reading some things about people striking blood vessels and passing out…it’s enough to make you think twice- especially when you’re in it alone.

  1. On the positive side, I have a gf (lives with me) who has a diabetic mother- and she use to give her injections. yes those injections were different, but at least she doesn’t seem to have a problem with administering intramuscular injections. We’ve talked about it, and I think she’s on board- but she’s never given these inj either- so again, I’m a little hesitant.

I know there are dozens of tutorial videos- but I’m just curious what most of your first experiences were like and if any of you were in a situation similar to mine?

I’ve got a friend who’s trying to talk me into doing an Oral only cycle that consists of anavar, winstrol, and nolva/clomid. I’ve read that taking some supplements, such as milk thistle helps ease the liver- and I don’t drink (maybe once in a blue moon- but definitely wouldn’t on an oral cycle)…

So what are your thoughts? Do I need to just stop being a pussy and get over injection anxiety or are orals not such a bad way to go?

Sorry for the long post.

2

I say get over it, with all respect. Your first cycle idea is simple, direct, efficient, and will be productive if you eat for it. Your oral cycle will not be even close to as long or as productive in terms of muscle. Even if it WERE as long as your proposed injection cycle it wouldn’t be as effective for muscle, IMO.

Your injection frequency depends on the test ester you were planning on running, not so much whether you’re a newb or not. Enanth probably inject only twice a week (M/Th). Prop, you’d go EOD or ED. 500-600mg prop is a good cycle. 600 mg enanth is a good cycle. ED injections on a 10-12 weeker for a newb could be problematic in some cases though. Not always, just more potential for problems with an inexperienced guy.

The big thing is that you should know a) how to find the sites b) how to use sterile technique BOTH when drawing from a vial and injecting and c) injection procedure (aspiration etc), and what to do if something goes wrong.

Problems should probably only really arise if you either don’t swab your vial tops prior to drawing from them, or don’t aspirate properly before you inject. OR reusing needles, in which case it’s probably best that something promptly remove you from the gene pool anyway :).

3

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
I say get over it, with all respect. Your first cycle idea is simple, direct, efficient, and will be productive if you eat for it. Your oral cycle will not be even close to as long or as productive in terms of muscle.

Even if it WERE as long as your proposed injection cycle it wouldn’t be as effective for muscle, IMO.

Your injection frequency depends on the test ester you were planning on running, not so much whether you’re a newb or not. Enanth probably inject only twice a week (M/Th). Prop, you’d go EOD or ED. 500-600mg prop is a good cycle. 600 mg enanth is a good cycle. ED injections on a 10-12 weeker for a newb could be problematic in some cases though. Not always, just more potential for problems with an inexperienced guy.

The big thing is that you should know a) how to find the sites b) how to use sterile technique BOTH when drawing from a vial and injecting and c) injection procedure (aspiration etc), and what to do if something goes wrong.

Problems should probably only really arise if you either don’t swab your vial tops prior to drawing from them, or don’t aspirate properly before you inject. OR reusing needles, in which case it’s probably best that something promptly remove you from the gene pool anyway :).[/quote]

I was thinking about Test cyp. (and actually to add to my above cycle- it would also run Dbol for the first 5 weeks @ 25mg/day) I’ve heard when you run cyp. at 500mg/wk you only have to inject once a week (because of the half-life).

Does that sound about right? Also- the dbol and armidex are liquid. Some people take it straight, some claim to mix it with fruit drinks? Anybody here do such a thing?

And since I’m trying to line everything else up-
I’m looking at 23g 1 1/4" inj needles (probably only going to be injecting in glutes @ once a week)
and 18g 1 1/2" for drawing. No problems here right?

Thanks for your input Aragorn

4

[quote]Willith wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
I say get over it, with all respect. Your first cycle idea is simple, direct, efficient, and will be productive if you eat for it. Your oral cycle will not be even close to as long or as productive in terms of muscle. Even if it WERE as long as your proposed injection cycle it wouldn’t be as effective for muscle, IMO.

Your injection frequency depends on the test ester you were planning on running, not so much whether you’re a newb or not. Enanth probably inject only twice a week (M/Th). Prop, you’d go EOD or ED. 500-600mg prop is a good cycle. 600 mg enanth is a good cycle.

ED injections on a 10-12 weeker for a newb could be problematic in some cases though. Not always, just more potential for problems with an inexperienced guy.

The big thing is that you should know a) how to find the sites b) how to use sterile technique BOTH when drawing from a vial and injecting and c) injection procedure (aspiration etc), and what to do if something goes wrong.

Problems should probably only really arise if you either don’t swab your vial tops prior to drawing from them, or don’t aspirate properly before you inject. OR reusing needles, in which case it’s probably best that something promptly remove you from the gene pool anyway :).

I was thinking about Test cyp. (and actually to add to my above cycle- it would also run Dbol for the first 5 weeks @ 25mg/day) I’ve heard when you run cyp. at 500mg/wk you only have to inject once a week (because of the half-life).

Does that sound about right? Also- the dbol and armidex are liquid. Some people take it straight, some claim to mix it with fruit drinks? Anybody here do such a thing?

And since I’m trying to line everything else up-
I’m looking at 23g 1 1/4" inj needles (probably only going to be injecting in glutes @ once a week)
and 18g 1 1/2" for drawing. No problems here right?

Thanks for your input Aragorn[/quote]

I believe cyp should be shot every 3 days such as Enanthate.

as far as dbol and adex I’d take it straight. I wouldn’t want any sticking to the side of my cup or something in some mix drink. lol

you injecting needle is fine imo but I’d go 20g for drawing out of the vial or you going to have rubber pieces floating in your vial with the 18g.

DG

5

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Willith wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
I say get over it, with all respect. Your first cycle idea is simple, direct, efficient, and will be productive if you eat for it. Your oral cycle will not be even close to as long or as productive in terms of muscle. Even if it WERE as long as your proposed injection cycle it wouldn’t be as effective for muscle, IMO.

Your injection frequency depends on the test ester you were planning on running, not so much whether you’re a newb or not. Enanth probably inject only twice a week (M/Th). Prop, you’d go EOD or ED. 500-600mg prop is a good cycle. 600 mg enanth is a good cycle.

ED injections on a 10-12 weeker for a newb could be problematic in some cases though. Not always, just more potential for problems with an inexperienced guy.

The big thing is that you should know a) how to find the sites b) how to use sterile technique BOTH when drawing from a vial and injecting and c) injection procedure (aspiration etc), and what to do if something goes wrong.

Problems should probably only really arise if you either don’t swab your vial tops prior to drawing from them, or don’t aspirate properly before you inject. OR reusing needles, in which case it’s probably best that something promptly remove you from the gene pool anyway :).

I was thinking about Test cyp. (and actually to add to my above cycle- it would also run Dbol for the first 5 weeks @ 25mg/day) I’ve heard when you run cyp. at 500mg/wk you only have to inject once a week (because of the half-life).

Does that sound about right? Also- the dbol and armidex are liquid. Some people take it straight, some claim to mix it with fruit drinks? Anybody here do such a thing?

And since I’m trying to line everything else up-
I’m looking at 23g 1 1/4" inj needles (probably only going to be injecting in glutes @ once a week)
and 18g 1 1/2" for drawing. No problems here right?

Thanks for your input Aragorn

I believe cyp should be shot every 3 days such as Enanthate.

as far as dbol and adex I’d take it straight. I wouldn’t want any sticking to the side of my cup or something in some mix drink. lol

you injecting needle is fine imo but I’d go 20g for drawing out of the vial or you going to have rubber pieces floating in your vial with the 18g.

DG[/quote]

+1
Inject the cyp twice a week or E3D. Increased blood level stablility.
Take the liquid products straight and wash it down with something if the taste is too much to handle.

6

Cyp and enth are not too far off as far as esters.

if Icant find Enth I will sub that out for cyp and the injection protocol is about the same.

E3D or 2x week (M,Thu)typicaly is good the more frequent your injections the more stable your levels will be typicaly.

there is nothing wrong with orals, alot of people say oral onlys are bad, I disagree, they have their place and also they are typicaly harsher on a person and they also do not yeild the results you would normaly get from injecting.

Test enth and dbol= greatness and 25mg is a nice dose for a new user as well. just remember take the dbol 2x a day atleast. some suggest up to 4 times a day.

7

[quote]MaddyD wrote:
Cyp and enth are not too far off as far as esters.

if Icant find Enth I will sub that out for cyp and the injection protocol is about the same.

E3D or 2x week (M,Thu)typicaly is good the more frequent your injections the more stable your levels will be typicaly.

there is nothing wrong with orals, alot of people say oral onlys are bad, I disagree, they have their place and also they are typicaly harsher on a person and they also do not yeild the results you would normaly get from injecting.

Test enth and dbol= greatness and 25mg is a nice dose for a new user as well. just remember take the dbol 2x a day atleast. some suggest up to 4 times a day.
[/quote]

some suggest to take the Dbol all at once. I think it is a matter of trial and preference.

I will be taking all 50mg of mine at once in the AM :wink:

I will later try spreading them throughout the day and see what I like mo betta :slight_smile:

DG

8

[quote]MaddyD wrote:
Cyp and enth are not too far off as far as esters.

if Icant find Enth I will sub that out for cyp and the injection protocol is about the same.

E3D or 2x week (M,Thu)typicaly is good the more frequent your injections the more stable your levels will be typicaly.

there is nothing wrong with orals, alot of people say oral onlys are bad, I disagree, they have their place and also they are typicaly harsher on a person and they also do not yeild the results you would normaly get from injecting.

Test enth and dbol= greatness and 25mg is a nice dose for a new user as well. just remember take the dbol 2x a day atleast. some suggest up to 4 times a day.
[/quote]

So you’re saying 12.5mg 2x a day right?

How often will I be able to train? I don’t want to over-do it and injure myself (like some people I know have)
My split right now looks like this:
M- shoulders
T- Off (hockey practice)
W-Bis/Tris
Th- Off
F-Chest/Back
Sat-Legs (or hockey game)
*Sun- Legs (if game on Saturday)

I’m a student- so I’ve got plenty of time for two-a-days. I havn’t seen any comparisons for people on gear vs. when they’re not, so I don’t know what I’ll be able to get away with.

Thanks for all your help guys.

9

Your body will recover at a faster rate assuming you are eating enough and sleeping properly.

I see no problem with your split as long as you have ONE solid day of rest then I think you will be fine.

I am a firm believer that it is really hard to overtrain assuming ones eating and sleeping habits are fine…when on AAS it becomes THAT MUCH HARDER to overtrain.

I prefer to keep the workouts no longer than an hr and 15 mins preferrably around the hour mark and just go balls to the wall while there. Then go home and grub.

if you are splitting your Dbol up then yes if you can 12.5mg 2x per day or 5 mg 5x per day, etc…all split up according. I believe the half life for Dbol is in the range of 4-6 hours so keep that in mind.

DG