KSman,
I ordered some seleginine research chem. 5mg/ml, 30 ml total. What’s your dosing advice? I take .25 cabergoline 2 x/wk already.
You can try seleginine at 5mg/week in divided doses. Harmonize that with your doses of liquid anastrozole or other orals.
[quote]Kaynon311 wrote:
Probably my most hated symptom of this whole ordeal has been the lack of energy. This is the biggest thing that TRT has failed to regulate. I am happy when I have energy. I am not much fun to be around when I have none. I still to this day feel, what I can only describe as hypoglycemic later in the day (around 1 pm on). I’m not sure exactly what you would call it. I’m pretty certain that it has to do with blood sugars, though. Really the only symptoms I can think of is fatigue and my eyes are difficult to fully open, as odd as that sounds.
[/quote]
For some reason, the past couple of days have been MISERABLE. If I could choose one thing that I wanted to do (skydive, mountain climb, kill a bear, etc), I couldn’t choose anything, because I don’t WANT to do anything.
I haven’t changed anything. 12 pellets of testopel, 1 pump of androgel 1.62, 25 mg of iodoral, multi-vitamin, and 50 mg of DHEA in the morning. 25 mg pregnenolone in the evening.
For anyone reading this I feel personal experiences add to the discussion and benefit everyone in the end. Sometimes what not to do is just as important to know as what TO do. We are all a bunch of Guinea pigs, really. What might work for some people may not work for others. In my post above I was feeling extremely bad. I felt that way for years, but it’s so much worse to go back to now. Long before I knew I had a tumor and secondary hypogonadism, I knew something was wrong. I tried many different things to attempt to treat this unknown illness, until finally one day my wife made me go to the doctor because something was wrong with my man parts. Hands down one of the most difficult situations I’ve even been in. Telling my doctor at the ripe age of 29 that I had ED.
Anyway, that’s just some back story for this. I’m a pretty big trial and error kind of guy. On my previous post I was feeling very down and said that nothing had changed. I had totally overlooked (not on purpose) that I had injected 62.5 mg of Test Cyp subQ on thursday evening in lieu on my daily pump of androgel. Friday I was fine. Saturday I was feeling the old symptoms. Sunday was pretty bad. Monday was pure HELL. I thought 62.5 mg was a pretty reasonable dosage, even taking into account that I still have 12 testopel pellets implanted in my hip. They have been there since the beginning of august, so presumably they are producing a smaller amount than would get me to 584 TT (see excel spreadsheet at top). So, the 62.5 mg, coupled with the 12 pellets, on top of the hCG that I continue to use EOD, I’m guessing gave me a rather significant spike in my E2 levels. KSman stated in one of his posts above that the difference between have 150 free test/50 E2 and 150 free test/25 E2 would be the difference between superman and suicidal. I have been the latter for the last two days. Woke up this morning and was more like myself.
KSman, do you have any input?
I’m still waiting for my adex to pass through customs. Is it worth it to buy some liquid anastrozole in the mean time?
If you click on the spread sheet image it enlarges and is easy to read.
So what did you add since September? One pump of gel and hCG? Do you have the math right? Could you be injecting too much hCG? If not, your been an hCG hyper-responder is a possibility. Or you are taking something that is affecting your liver’s ability to clear E2. What new Rx or OTC meds? Cold medicines?
Did your injection experiment affect the above lab report?
Customs? Does not sound good. Many use liquid anastrozole exclusively. The only problem is not having a properly labelled Rx medicine when travelling.
The supplements listed in the “**Note” were all I was taking at the time of the test. I held off on the injection experiment until afterwards. Why the the SHBG so low? Why would the TT go down, but the free T go up? What made the E2 more than double?
I honestly don’t know what’s too much hCG. At the time of the test, I was strictly 250 iu 2x/week. Since then, I’ve changed to 250iu EOD due to the testicular tension I was noticing on the last day before pinning using that protocol. I decided to hold off on any more injection experiments until the pellets are completely dissolved. I don’t know how many more of those regressions I can handle. I’ll deal with the hassle of putting on the gel and knowing I can’t sweat/have sex for the next couple of hours until those things are gone.
I do have to travel quite frequently for business. The thought had actually crossed my mind about traveling with it. Any suggestions?
From an E2 point of view, you would be better of without the T gel as it creates the highest T–>E2 of all T deliver methods and injections the least if frequent.
They could get on your case about the anastrozole solution, you can carry your tablets with the Rx label to backup your case should the issue ever come up, or split pill fragments while travelling.
Too much hCG can create a lot of T–>E2 inside the testes and AI does not work there.
These questions were trying to figure out why E2 was high:
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So what did you add since September? One pump of gel and hCG? Do you have the math right? Could you be injecting too much hCG? If not, your been an hCG hyper-responder is a possibility. Or you are taking something that is affecting your liver’s ability to clear E2. What new Rx or OTC meds? Cold medicines?
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I plan on ditching the gel once the pellets dissolve. Since the September test, I added the DHEA, pregnenolone, hCG and the pump of androgel. Also the iodoral.
As for the liver questions, the only thing that would bother it would be alcohol, but I’ve cut that way back to maybe once every couple of weeks. A few months ago it was more like 3 times a week. Could that be a relic?
Any feedback on the chronic low cortisol?
I plan on ditching the gel once the pellets dissolve. Since the September test, I added the DHEA, pregnenolone, hCG and the pump of androgel. Also the iodoral.
As for the liver questions, the only thing that would bother it would be alcohol, but I’ve cut that way back to maybe once every couple of weeks. A few months ago it was more like 3 times a week. Could that be a relic?
Any feedback on the chronic low cortisol?
Might be better filling the pellet gap with injections. That is what I am suggesting.
How much DHEA? Still 50? You can try 25. There are a few guys who freely convert DHEA–>E2, presumably in the adrenals.
The only reason I was taking DHEA to begin with was because it seemed to be a mainstay in many protocols. What if I cut it out all together?
I can bridge the gap with injections, but like I said, I travel pretty frequently for work. I found my cyp dark side to give it a try before I asked my doc.
I will be out of state for the next three weeks on business. He likes to make changes face to face. I’ll ask next time I see him. His resistance at first was because “I might hit a nerve if I self inject”. At the time, I had never pinned myself and wasn’t sure if I could even do it. I’m past that now.
Since 62.5mg test cyp wasn’t a good dose, what would you suggest?
Ok, KSman.
Here’s my plan of action. I ordered some liquid anastrozole RC. I plan on doing .5 mg twice a week. The dropper that came with the selegiline (same company) wasn’t exactly the best, and I know this needs to be a little more accurate. 30 mg test cyp twice a week once I’m back from business and adjust according to how I feel. These pellets can’t last forever.
I have cut the DHEA to 25 mg/day. What do you think about cutting hCG back to 200iu EOD?
You will not hit a nerve if you self inject SC with a 0.5ml [50iu] #29 1/2" insulin syringe.
If doc says that SC injections will not work, suggest that the same logic then needs to be applied to pellets.
You can drop the DHEA and see what happens. That is a minor change. Your DHEA should be at 30YO.
KSman,
I’m cutting back the hCG to 200iu EOD. My question to you is, do you believe this will help with the aromatase? Does pinning hCG 2x/week INCREASE aromatase, so pinning EOD would decrease it? Also, pinning EOD means you’re getting at least 750iu/week, as opposed to 500iu. Does more hCG mean more aromatase? Would 150iu be more appropriate if I am an over-responder?
Still waiting on AI.
I’ve read a few of your posts concerning HMG, but they were all old. Have there been any changes? I’ve read it doesn’t aromatase as much as hCG.
Lots of questions. Be patient with me. I’m on a quest for optimal balance.
I’m open to hear any thoughts/suggestions/theories.
This is why…
[quote]KSman wrote:
E2 management is mission critical to QOL.
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I spoke with my doctor today and he suggested to put me on adex for the elevated E2. He also agreed, after a little discussion, to allow me to self-inject test cyp 2x/week.
So, in order to KISS (keep it simple, stupid), I will be using the following protocol and do another blood test in a month and make adjustments from there. Since the E2 rose so drastically, I stopped the DHEA to see if I can weed out the culprit.
Everything will be done 2x/week according to the 84 hour protocol. (tuesday morning/friday evening)
-31.25 mg test cyp (this number due to the fact that there are 12 testopel pellets still lingering in my hip)
-250iu hCG
-.5mg adex
-.25mg cabergoline
I’ll give another update when it comes
I haven’t been very active on this forum lately due to traveling like a maniac for work and the holidays. I got a blood test done shortly after christmas and just received the results. I had been injecting 35mg test cyp 2x/week (due to the still lingering testopel pellets) for about three weeks with .5mg anastrozole, however 2 days before the actual test was done I injected 50mg test cyp. As you can see all testosterone levels are lower than the previous test. DHEA is significantly lower since not taking supplemental DHEA. E2 is magnificently lower due to the anastrozole and perhaps also because I was converting DHEA to E2 per the advice from KSman.
Other things of note are the IGF-1, which has increased for what reason??? DHT is lower, and so is libido. I don’t think that the testosterone being so insignificantly lower would decrease DHT so much. Possibly because androgel increases DHT more than injections due to aromatase? Which leads me to the question, if androgel increases DHT to aromatase, and anastrozole prevents aromatase (even the aromatase of T->DHT), how does one effectively increase DHT with supplementation?
Also, fT4 has nearly doubled. Sadly, I can’t say that I have been taking my iodoral on a daily basis, so could there be some other reason for the increase in thyroid activity?
As I said, the libido has decreased, the strength of erections has decreased, and I also endured a pretty heavy bout of facial and back acne, which has since subsided, but is still present.
I felt very confident that the injections were the way to go. It honestly made total sense to me given all the research I have done and the fact that I had tried all other delivery methods before. Now, I am not so sure. It this whole thing really just a balance of pros vs. cons? Can there be no absolute harmony?
SHBG 5.3? It is very low. SHBG 15-25 acceptable. Ideal is 20. SHBG worth 20 everything gets easier friend. Find out why a SHBG so low.