[quote]pat wrote:<<< And that’s not what Eph. 1:11 is talking about.[/quote]This is the fundamental difference between us Pat. My God defines everything. Yours is himself defined by forces beyond his control.
[quote]pat wrote:
And I made no arguments what so ever about “Catholic” Gods or any other kind.
[/quote]
When you say “god” do you mean the god of your bible, also known as Yahweh? Yes or no.
Well this thread failed. Epically.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
So let me get this strait, you don’t know the origin of the universe, but the one thing it can not be is God? How did this process elimination proceed? Have you eliminated anything else, or by default God cannot be a factor at all?
[/quote]
lol. I’ve eliminated the flying spaghetti monster too. By your logic, I shouldnt.
I dont need compelling evidence that it WASNT Yahweh, the god of YOUR BIBLE. You need to show compelling evidence that it WAS. This is the burden of proof, which you continue to not understand.
Ok.
Bullshit. You’re a Catholic, meaning you believe the Catholic god (who is named Yahweh and posseses very specific attributes) exists.
This has nothing to do with anything.
[quote]
If you believe God exists, then we can argue about his nature and his method of revelation. If you dont believe in God, then something that does not exist doing cannot be anything, much less a Yahweh. [/quote]
Again with the fallacies.
You present a false choice between “God” and “Nothing”.
You fail to see the difference between “Something caused our universe to exist” and “God caused our universe to exist”
You jump to the conclusion that the something absolutely MUST be God, and when you say “god” you’re clearly referring to something with attributes that go beyond “The thing that caused our universe to exist”.
Your entire premise is flawed and you’re filling in a gap with “It must have been God!”
Still, God of Gaps.[/quote]
And please list the falacy because, well no logical fallacies were committed…You really should read the link I provided, it’s save you a lot of trouble…Cosmology is little more than a numberless algebraic expression. It’s almost to simple to comprehend, hence it has no gaps. If it did, that would have been exposed hundreds of years ago…[/quote]
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Oh goody, then where did it all come from? ‘I don’t know’ doesn’t count. Shit either came from something or nothing. Those are your 2 choices, there is not a third.
[/quote]
lol
I’ll go with something. And then I’ll admit that I dont know what that something is.
Or, its also possible that the universe has always existed. But that’d be crrrraaaazzzzzzzy, since everything has to come from something… except for the magical being some people made up a long time ago.
You still have not given one compelling argument why the something absolutely would have to be Yahweh. I’m all ears.[/quote]
So let me get this strait, you don’t know the origin of the universe, but the one thing it can not be is God? How did this process elimination proceed? Have you eliminated anything else, or by default God cannot be a factor at all?
THIS universe has not always existed. That is pretty verifiable, however it would no matter if it did. As I explained before it does not matter there were a series of universes (accrdien universe theory), if we exist in a mutiverse, or if the universe is an illusion, so long as it exists, it has a sufficient reason for doing so.
I never said anything resembling God is YHWY, I only claim that if something unusual happens, I do not assume direct involvement from God unless there is sufficient evidence to make such a claim.
If you believe God exists, then we can argue about his nature and his method of revelation. If you dont believe in God, then something that does not exist doing cannot be anything, much less a Yahweh. [/quote]
Can I just butt in here? Presumably we’re talking about the God of Christianity(and Judaism if you consider them the same God)? What about Zeus/Jupiter, Poseidon/Neptune, Artimes/Diana, Nike/Victoria? Don’t they get a look in? What about the demigods like Heracles, Persius, Alexander the Great etc? Monotheism is Godist! Stop this Godism please.[/quote]
You presume incorrectly…I am not talking about a type of God, just God,the creator of all that exists…What you call him doesn’t change what he is.[/quote]
It is you who has presumed incorrectly. You are talking about God(singular). This is monotheism. By its very nature it denies the existence of other Gods(plural) i.e. Polytheism. That’s Godist.
[quote]Oleena wrote:
We love talking about God![/quote]
Religion and politics are the only things worthy of argument. G.K Chesterton
[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:
Einstein was a fraud, and plagiarist. [/quote]
What are you talking about? Sorry, I have a few people blocked, so I am not quite sure what you are referring to…is this because Einstein is religious?
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Oh goody, then where did it all come from? ‘I don’t know’ doesn’t count. Shit either came from something or nothing. Those are your 2 choices, there is not a third.
[/quote]
lol
I’ll go with something. And then I’ll admit that I dont know what that something is.
Or, its also possible that the universe has always existed. But that’d be crrrraaaazzzzzzzy, since everything has to come from something… except for the magical being some people made up a long time ago.
You still have not given one compelling argument why the something absolutely would have to be Yahweh. I’m all ears.[/quote]
So let me get this strait, you don’t know the origin of the universe, but the one thing it can not be is God? How did this process elimination proceed? Have you eliminated anything else, or by default God cannot be a factor at all?
THIS universe has not always existed. That is pretty verifiable, however it would no matter if it did. As I explained before it does not matter there were a series of universes (accrdien universe theory), if we exist in a mutiverse, or if the universe is an illusion, so long as it exists, it has a sufficient reason for doing so.
I never said anything resembling God is YHWY, I only claim that if something unusual happens, I do not assume direct involvement from God unless there is sufficient evidence to make such a claim.
If you believe God exists, then we can argue about his nature and his method of revelation. If you dont believe in God, then something that does not exist doing cannot be anything, much less a Yahweh. [/quote]
Can I just butt in here? Presumably we’re talking about the God of Christianity(and Judaism if you consider them the same God)? What about Zeus/Jupiter, Poseidon/Neptune, Artimes/Diana, Nike/Victoria? Don’t they get a look in? What about the demigods like Heracles, Persius, Alexander the Great etc? Monotheism is Godist! Stop this Godism please.[/quote]
You presume incorrectly…I am not talking about a type of God, just God,the creator of all that exists…What you call him doesn’t change what he is.[/quote]
It is you who has presumed incorrectly. You are talking about God(singular). This is monotheism. By its very nature it denies the existence of other Gods(plural) i.e. Polytheism. That’s Godist.[/quote]
So you’re going to make words now? Cool.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Oh goody, then where did it all come from? ‘I don’t know’ doesn’t count. Shit either came from something or nothing. Those are your 2 choices, there is not a third.
[/quote]
lol
I’ll go with something. And then I’ll admit that I dont know what that something is.
Or, its also possible that the universe has always existed. But that’d be crrrraaaazzzzzzzy, since everything has to come from something… except for the magical being some people made up a long time ago.
You still have not given one compelling argument why the something absolutely would have to be Yahweh. I’m all ears.[/quote]
So let me get this strait, you don’t know the origin of the universe, but the one thing it can not be is God? How did this process elimination proceed? Have you eliminated anything else, or by default God cannot be a factor at all?
THIS universe has not always existed. That is pretty verifiable, however it would no matter if it did. As I explained before it does not matter there were a series of universes (accrdien universe theory), if we exist in a mutiverse, or if the universe is an illusion, so long as it exists, it has a sufficient reason for doing so.
I never said anything resembling God is YHWY, I only claim that if something unusual happens, I do not assume direct involvement from God unless there is sufficient evidence to make such a claim.
If you believe God exists, then we can argue about his nature and his method of revelation. If you dont believe in God, then something that does not exist doing cannot be anything, much less a Yahweh. [/quote]
Out of curiosity how would you verify the Earth has not always been here.
[/quote]
Empirically you can test it and the results will correlate with an approximate 4.5 billion year existence, but you cannot prove it deductively. Hell, we can’t prove the Earth didn’t suddenly pop in to existence 5 minutes ago.
[/quote]
You can prove it deductively by THINKING:
Does a sun have an unlimited lifespan/fuel supply and remain in class II secchi stage forever(whatever forever means)? Doesn’t a planet need to be orbiting something? Didn’t the universe only reach a stage where suns could be created about 200 million years after the big bang? Aren’t planets made from the elements within giant stars that explode at the end of their lifecycle(supernovae)? Isn’t it true that space itself and time did not exist/begin until AFTER the big bang which was about 14 billion years ago?
The answers to these questions which are already known PROVE that the earth hasn’t ‘been here always(whatever always means)’. You don’t need carbon dating or rock layering to answer his question. Just common sense and some general knowledge about the universe we live in.
[quote]Oleena wrote:
Well this thread failed. Epically.[/quote]
Demagoguery at it’s finest
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Oh goody, then where did it all come from? ‘I don’t know’ doesn’t count. Shit either came from something or nothing. Those are your 2 choices, there is not a third.
[/quote]
lol
I’ll go with something. And then I’ll admit that I dont know what that something is.
Or, its also possible that the universe has always existed. But that’d be crrrraaaazzzzzzzy, since everything has to come from something… except for the magical being some people made up a long time ago.
You still have not given one compelling argument why the something absolutely would have to be Yahweh. I’m all ears.[/quote]
So let me get this strait, you don’t know the origin of the universe, but the one thing it can not be is God? How did this process elimination proceed? Have you eliminated anything else, or by default God cannot be a factor at all?
THIS universe has not always existed. That is pretty verifiable, however it would no matter if it did. As I explained before it does not matter there were a series of universes (accrdien universe theory), if we exist in a mutiverse, or if the universe is an illusion, so long as it exists, it has a sufficient reason for doing so.
I never said anything resembling God is YHWY, I only claim that if something unusual happens, I do not assume direct involvement from God unless there is sufficient evidence to make such a claim.
If you believe God exists, then we can argue about his nature and his method of revelation. If you dont believe in God, then something that does not exist doing cannot be anything, much less a Yahweh. [/quote]
Out of curiosity how would you verify the Earth has not always been here.
[/quote]
Empirically you can test it and the results will correlate with an approximate 4.5 billion year existence, but you cannot prove it deductively. Hell, we can’t prove the Earth didn’t suddenly pop in to existence 5 minutes ago.
[/quote]
You can prove it deductively by THINKING:
Does a sun have an unlimited lifespan/fuel supply and remain in class II secchi stage forever(whatever forever means)? Doesn’t a planet need to be orbiting something? Didn’t the universe only reach a stage where suns could be created about 200 million years after the big bang? Aren’t planets made from the elements within giant stars that explode at the end of their lifecycle(supernovae)? Isn’t it true that space itself and time did not exist/begin until AFTER the big bang which was about 14 billion years ago?
The answers to these questions which are already known PROVE that the earth hasn’t ‘been here always(whatever always means)’. You don’t need carbon dating or rock layering to answer his question. Just common sense and some general knowledge about the universe we live in.[/quote]
I am sorry , this is nonsenses, you can prove nothing , except we know the earth did not just appear 10 minutes ago.
You example of the sun , just because the sun has a limited existence on means the sun maybe has a limited life and was the sun something before it was a sun and so on.
I am no expert ,but maybe you know the answer , if you carbon date a diamond, does that date it back to when it was coal , and when it’s was oil , or all the back to when it was a forest?
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Oh goody, then where did it all come from? ‘I don’t know’ doesn’t count. Shit either came from something or nothing. Those are your 2 choices, there is not a third.
[/quote]
lol
I’ll go with something. And then I’ll admit that I dont know what that something is.
Or, its also possible that the universe has always existed. But that’d be crrrraaaazzzzzzzy, since everything has to come from something… except for the magical being some people made up a long time ago.
You still have not given one compelling argument why the something absolutely would have to be Yahweh. I’m all ears.[/quote]
So let me get this strait, you don’t know the origin of the universe, but the one thing it can not be is God? How did this process elimination proceed? Have you eliminated anything else, or by default God cannot be a factor at all?
THIS universe has not always existed. That is pretty verifiable, however it would no matter if it did. As I explained before it does not matter there were a series of universes (accrdien universe theory), if we exist in a mutiverse, or if the universe is an illusion, so long as it exists, it has a sufficient reason for doing so.
I never said anything resembling God is YHWY, I only claim that if something unusual happens, I do not assume direct involvement from God unless there is sufficient evidence to make such a claim.
If you believe God exists, then we can argue about his nature and his method of revelation. If you dont believe in God, then something that does not exist doing cannot be anything, much less a Yahweh. [/quote]
Out of curiosity how would you verify the Earth has not always been here.
[/quote]
Empirically you can test it and the results will correlate with an approximate 4.5 billion year existence, but you cannot prove it deductively. Hell, we can’t prove the Earth didn’t suddenly pop in to existence 5 minutes ago.
[/quote]
You can prove it deductively by THINKING:
Does a sun have an unlimited lifespan/fuel supply and remain in class II secchi stage forever(whatever forever means)? Doesn’t a planet need to be orbiting something? Didn’t the universe only reach a stage where suns could be created about 200 million years after the big bang? Aren’t planets made from the elements within giant stars that explode at the end of their lifecycle(supernovae)? Isn’t it true that space itself and time did not exist/begin until AFTER the big bang which was about 14 billion years ago?
The answers to these questions which are already known PROVE that the earth hasn’t ‘been here always(whatever always means)’. You don’t need carbon dating or rock layering to answer his question. Just common sense and some general knowledge about the universe we live in.[/quote]
I am sorry , this is nonsenses, you can prove nothing , except we know the earth did not just appear 10 minutes ago.
You example of the sun , just because the sun has a limited existence on means the sun maybe has a limited life and was the sun something before it was a sun and so on.
I am no expert ,but maybe you know the answer , if you carbon date a diamond, does that date it back to when it was coal , and when it’s was oil , or all the back to when it was a forest?
[/quote]
Contrary to being an expert I consider myself to be ignorant of Science/Physics/Maths…but not in comparison to people who ask ‘how do we know the earth wasn’t always here?’.
Before it was a sun, it was an enormous amount of Hydrogen and Helium floating in space that was drawn together by gravitational force. This gas was further compressed by gravity until it reached a critical point and began nuclear fussion.
RE Diamonds. Interesting you mention diamonds as the difficulty in measuring their age has aroused creationists. Diamonds cannot by measured via carbon dating. They can(apparently) be measured with other radioactive decay methods however, e.g. uranium-lead. Like I said, I’m not an expert.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
What are you talking about? Sorry, I have a few people blocked, so I am not quite sure what you are referring to…is this because Einstein is religious?[/quote]
Has nothing to do with religion. He was just a fraud.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Oh goody, then where did it all come from? ‘I don’t know’ doesn’t count. Shit either came from something or nothing. Those are your 2 choices, there is not a third.
[/quote]
lol
I’ll go with something. And then I’ll admit that I dont know what that something is.
Or, its also possible that the universe has always existed. But that’d be crrrraaaazzzzzzzy, since everything has to come from something… except for the magical being some people made up a long time ago.
You still have not given one compelling argument why the something absolutely would have to be Yahweh. I’m all ears.[/quote]
So let me get this strait, you don’t know the origin of the universe, but the one thing it can not be is God? How did this process elimination proceed? Have you eliminated anything else, or by default God cannot be a factor at all?
THIS universe has not always existed. That is pretty verifiable, however it would no matter if it did. As I explained before it does not matter there were a series of universes (accrdien universe theory), if we exist in a mutiverse, or if the universe is an illusion, so long as it exists, it has a sufficient reason for doing so.
I never said anything resembling God is YHWY, I only claim that if something unusual happens, I do not assume direct involvement from God unless there is sufficient evidence to make such a claim.
If you believe God exists, then we can argue about his nature and his method of revelation. If you dont believe in God, then something that does not exist doing cannot be anything, much less a Yahweh. [/quote]
Out of curiosity how would you verify the Earth has not always been here.
[/quote]
Empirically you can test it and the results will correlate with an approximate 4.5 billion year existence, but you cannot prove it deductively. Hell, we can’t prove the Earth didn’t suddenly pop in to existence 5 minutes ago.
[/quote]
You can prove it deductively by THINKING:
Does a sun have an unlimited lifespan/fuel supply and remain in class II secchi stage forever(whatever forever means)? Doesn’t a planet need to be orbiting something? Didn’t the universe only reach a stage where suns could be created about 200 million years after the big bang? Aren’t planets made from the elements within giant stars that explode at the end of their lifecycle(supernovae)? Isn’t it true that space itself and time did not exist/begin until AFTER the big bang which was about 14 billion years ago?
The answers to these questions which are already known PROVE that the earth hasn’t ‘been here always(whatever always means)’. You don’t need carbon dating or rock layering to answer his question. Just common sense and some general knowledge about the universe we live in.[/quote]
I am sorry , this is nonsenses, you can prove nothing , except we know the earth did not just appear 10 minutes ago.
You example of the sun , just because the sun has a limited existence on means the sun maybe has a limited life and was the sun something before it was a sun and so on.
I am no expert ,but maybe you know the answer , if you carbon date a diamond, does that date it back to when it was coal , and when it’s was oil , or all the back to when it was a forest?
[/quote]
Contrary to being an expert I consider myself to be ignorant of Science/Physics/Maths…but not in comparison to people who ask ‘how do we know the earth wasn’t always here?’.
[/quote]
I guess you are talking about me 
Ok if the earth has not been there always then matter just appeared out of no where ? Or could the Earth been part of a star or larger planet that destructed . I think your condescension is closed mindedness, if I am wrong about your perceived than i apologize.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Oh goody, then where did it all come from? ‘I don’t know’ doesn’t count. Shit either came from something or nothing. Those are your 2 choices, there is not a third.
[/quote]
lol
I’ll go with something. And then I’ll admit that I dont know what that something is.
Or, its also possible that the universe has always existed. But that’d be crrrraaaazzzzzzzy, since everything has to come from something… except for the magical being some people made up a long time ago.
You still have not given one compelling argument why the something absolutely would have to be Yahweh. I’m all ears.[/quote]
So let me get this strait, you don’t know the origin of the universe, but the one thing it can not be is God? How did this process elimination proceed? Have you eliminated anything else, or by default God cannot be a factor at all?
THIS universe has not always existed. That is pretty verifiable, however it would no matter if it did. As I explained before it does not matter there were a series of universes (accrdien universe theory), if we exist in a mutiverse, or if the universe is an illusion, so long as it exists, it has a sufficient reason for doing so.
I never said anything resembling God is YHWY, I only claim that if something unusual happens, I do not assume direct involvement from God unless there is sufficient evidence to make such a claim.
If you believe God exists, then we can argue about his nature and his method of revelation. If you dont believe in God, then something that does not exist doing cannot be anything, much less a Yahweh. [/quote]
Out of curiosity how would you verify the Earth has not always been here.
[/quote]
Empirically you can test it and the results will correlate with an approximate 4.5 billion year existence, but you cannot prove it deductively. Hell, we can’t prove the Earth didn’t suddenly pop in to existence 5 minutes ago.
[/quote]
You can prove it deductively by THINKING:
Does a sun have an unlimited lifespan/fuel supply and remain in class II secchi stage forever(whatever forever means)? Doesn’t a planet need to be orbiting something? Didn’t the universe only reach a stage where suns could be created about 200 million years after the big bang? Aren’t planets made from the elements within giant stars that explode at the end of their lifecycle(supernovae)? Isn’t it true that space itself and time did not exist/begin until AFTER the big bang which was about 14 billion years ago?
The answers to these questions which are already known PROVE that the earth hasn’t ‘been here always(whatever always means)’. You don’t need carbon dating or rock layering to answer his question. Just common sense and some general knowledge about the universe we live in.[/quote]
I am sorry , this is nonsenses, you can prove nothing , except we know the earth did not just appear 10 minutes ago.
You example of the sun , just because the sun has a limited existence on means the sun maybe has a limited life and was the sun something before it was a sun and so on.
I am no expert ,but maybe you know the answer , if you carbon date a diamond, does that date it back to when it was coal , and when it’s was oil , or all the back to when it was a forest?
[/quote]
Contrary to being an expert I consider myself to be ignorant of Science/Physics/Maths…but not in comparison to people who ask ‘how do we know the earth wasn’t always here?’.
Before it was a sun, it was an enormous amount of Hydrogen and Helium floating in space that was drawn together by gravitational force. This gas was further compressed by gravity until it reached a critical point and began nuclear fussion.
RE Diamonds. Interesting you mention diamonds as the difficulty in measuring their age has aroused creationists. Diamonds cannot by measured via carbon dating. They can(apparently) be measured with other radioactive decay methods however, e.g. uranium-lead. Like I said, I’m not an expert.[/quote]
Thanks for the theory of the origin of the sun
My question about aging was not necessarily about carbon dating , it was to determine when they do get the age of something is it just how long has it been the one thing or is it (DIAMOND) or when it was (COAL) or when it was (OIL) or the forest before ? Do you understand my question? I know the diamond ios a bad example
[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
What are you talking about? Sorry, I have a few people blocked, so I am not quite sure what you are referring to…is this because Einstein is religious?[/quote]
Has nothing to do with religion. He was just a fraud. [/quote]
Because you said so?
[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
What are you talking about? Sorry, I have a few people blocked, so I am not quite sure what you are referring to…is this because Einstein is religious?[/quote]
Has nothing to do with religion. He was just a fraud. [/quote]
How was he a fraud?
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Oh goody, then where did it all come from? ‘I don’t know’ doesn’t count. Shit either came from something or nothing. Those are your 2 choices, there is not a third.
[/quote]
lol
I’ll go with something. And then I’ll admit that I dont know what that something is.
Or, its also possible that the universe has always existed. But that’d be crrrraaaazzzzzzzy, since everything has to come from something… except for the magical being some people made up a long time ago.
You still have not given one compelling argument why the something absolutely would have to be Yahweh. I’m all ears.[/quote]
So let me get this strait, you don’t know the origin of the universe, but the one thing it can not be is God? How did this process elimination proceed? Have you eliminated anything else, or by default God cannot be a factor at all?
THIS universe has not always existed. That is pretty verifiable, however it would no matter if it did. As I explained before it does not matter there were a series of universes (accrdien universe theory), if we exist in a mutiverse, or if the universe is an illusion, so long as it exists, it has a sufficient reason for doing so.
I never said anything resembling God is YHWY, I only claim that if something unusual happens, I do not assume direct involvement from God unless there is sufficient evidence to make such a claim.
If you believe God exists, then we can argue about his nature and his method of revelation. If you dont believe in God, then something that does not exist doing cannot be anything, much less a Yahweh. [/quote]
Out of curiosity how would you verify the Earth has not always been here.
[/quote]
Empirically you can test it and the results will correlate with an approximate 4.5 billion year existence, but you cannot prove it deductively. Hell, we can’t prove the Earth didn’t suddenly pop in to existence 5 minutes ago.
[/quote]
You can prove it deductively by THINKING:
Does a sun have an unlimited lifespan/fuel supply and remain in class II secchi stage forever(whatever forever means)? Doesn’t a planet need to be orbiting something? Didn’t the universe only reach a stage where suns could be created about 200 million years after the big bang? Aren’t planets made from the elements within giant stars that explode at the end of their lifecycle(supernovae)? Isn’t it true that space itself and time did not exist/begin until AFTER the big bang which was about 14 billion years ago?
The answers to these questions which are already known PROVE that the earth hasn’t ‘been here always(whatever always means)’. You don’t need carbon dating or rock layering to answer his question. Just common sense and some general knowledge about the universe we live in.[/quote]
I am sorry , this is nonsenses, you can prove nothing , except we know the earth did not just appear 10 minutes ago.
You example of the sun , just because the sun has a limited existence on means the sun maybe has a limited life and was the sun something before it was a sun and so on.
I am no expert ,but maybe you know the answer , if you carbon date a diamond, does that date it back to when it was coal , and when it’s was oil , or all the back to when it was a forest?
[/quote]
Contrary to being an expert I consider myself to be ignorant of Science/Physics/Maths…but not in comparison to people who ask ‘how do we know the earth wasn’t always here?’.
[/quote]
I guess you are talking about me Ok if the earth has not been there always then matter just appeared out of no where ? Or could the Earth been part of a star or larger planet that destructed . I think your condescension is closed mindedness, if I am wrong about your perceived than i apologize.
[/quote]
Matter and energy are the same thing. From Planck time(the earliest period we can measure after the big bang) there was just energy. Eventually through complex interaction of sub-atomic particles Hydrogen and Helium were created. These enormous clouds of hydrogen and helium were drawn together by gravity to create suns. Inside these suns the process of nuclear fusion creates all the elements that exist on earth. If these suns have enough mass to ‘go supernovae’ at the end of their lifecycles, they explode and spread these elements throughout the universe. Many of these elements become the basis of planets.
This is my general understanding without googling anything. Any physicists please feel free to correct me.
RE Matter appearing out of no where. What is ‘where’? Time and space did not exist prior to the big bang. There are a number of theories that postulate spontaneous energy/matter creation that do not contradict Einstein’s field equations.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Oh goody, then where did it all come from? ‘I don’t know’ doesn’t count. Shit either came from something or nothing. Those are your 2 choices, there is not a third.
[/quote]
lol
I’ll go with something. And then I’ll admit that I dont know what that something is.
Or, its also possible that the universe has always existed. But that’d be crrrraaaazzzzzzzy, since everything has to come from something… except for the magical being some people made up a long time ago.
You still have not given one compelling argument why the something absolutely would have to be Yahweh. I’m all ears.[/quote]
So let me get this strait, you don’t know the origin of the universe, but the one thing it can not be is God? How did this process elimination proceed? Have you eliminated anything else, or by default God cannot be a factor at all?
THIS universe has not always existed. That is pretty verifiable, however it would no matter if it did. As I explained before it does not matter there were a series of universes (accrdien universe theory), if we exist in a mutiverse, or if the universe is an illusion, so long as it exists, it has a sufficient reason for doing so.
I never said anything resembling God is YHWY, I only claim that if something unusual happens, I do not assume direct involvement from God unless there is sufficient evidence to make such a claim.
If you believe God exists, then we can argue about his nature and his method of revelation. If you dont believe in God, then something that does not exist doing cannot be anything, much less a Yahweh. [/quote]
Out of curiosity how would you verify the Earth has not always been here.
[/quote]
Empirically you can test it and the results will correlate with an approximate 4.5 billion year existence, but you cannot prove it deductively. Hell, we can’t prove the Earth didn’t suddenly pop in to existence 5 minutes ago.
[/quote]
You can prove it deductively by THINKING:
Does a sun have an unlimited lifespan/fuel supply and remain in class II secchi stage forever(whatever forever means)? Doesn’t a planet need to be orbiting something? Didn’t the universe only reach a stage where suns could be created about 200 million years after the big bang? Aren’t planets made from the elements within giant stars that explode at the end of their lifecycle(supernovae)? Isn’t it true that space itself and time did not exist/begin until AFTER the big bang which was about 14 billion years ago?
The answers to these questions which are already known PROVE that the earth hasn’t ‘been here always(whatever always means)’. You don’t need carbon dating or rock layering to answer his question. Just common sense and some general knowledge about the universe we live in.[/quote]
I am sorry , this is nonsenses, you can prove nothing , except we know the earth did not just appear 10 minutes ago.
You example of the sun , just because the sun has a limited existence on means the sun maybe has a limited life and was the sun something before it was a sun and so on.
I am no expert ,but maybe you know the answer , if you carbon date a diamond, does that date it back to when it was coal , and when it’s was oil , or all the back to when it was a forest?
[/quote]
Contrary to being an expert I consider myself to be ignorant of Science/Physics/Maths…but not in comparison to people who ask ‘how do we know the earth wasn’t always here?’.
Before it was a sun, it was an enormous amount of Hydrogen and Helium floating in space that was drawn together by gravitational force. This gas was further compressed by gravity until it reached a critical point and began nuclear fussion.
RE Diamonds. Interesting you mention diamonds as the difficulty in measuring their age has aroused creationists. Diamonds cannot by measured via carbon dating. They can(apparently) be measured with other radioactive decay methods however, e.g. uranium-lead. Like I said, I’m not an expert.[/quote]
Thanks for the theory of the origin of the sun
My question about aging was not necessarily about carbon dating , it was to determine when they do get the age of something is it just how long has it been the one thing or is it (DIAMOND) or when it was (COAL) or when it was (OIL) or the forest before ? Do you understand my question? I know the diamond ios a bad example
[/quote]
They are measuring the radioactive decay of the elements within a diamond. The elements within a diamond are carbon. Carbon is also in coal and the trees/animals that created the coal. Diamonds however are extremely dense(compressed). I do not understand the process of measuring the radioactive decay of carbon in diamonds. Sorry I can’t help here.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Oh goody, then where did it all come from? ‘I don’t know’ doesn’t count. Shit either came from something or nothing. Those are your 2 choices, there is not a third.
[/quote]
lol
I’ll go with something. And then I’ll admit that I dont know what that something is.
Or, its also possible that the universe has always existed. But that’d be crrrraaaazzzzzzzy, since everything has to come from something… except for the magical being some people made up a long time ago.
You still have not given one compelling argument why the something absolutely would have to be Yahweh. I’m all ears.[/quote]
So let me get this strait, you don’t know the origin of the universe, but the one thing it can not be is God? How did this process elimination proceed? Have you eliminated anything else, or by default God cannot be a factor at all?
THIS universe has not always existed. That is pretty verifiable, however it would no matter if it did. As I explained before it does not matter there were a series of universes (accrdien universe theory), if we exist in a mutiverse, or if the universe is an illusion, so long as it exists, it has a sufficient reason for doing so.
I never said anything resembling God is YHWY, I only claim that if something unusual happens, I do not assume direct involvement from God unless there is sufficient evidence to make such a claim.
If you believe God exists, then we can argue about his nature and his method of revelation. If you dont believe in God, then something that does not exist doing cannot be anything, much less a Yahweh. [/quote]
Out of curiosity how would you verify the Earth has not always been here.
[/quote]
Empirically you can test it and the results will correlate with an approximate 4.5 billion year existence, but you cannot prove it deductively. Hell, we can’t prove the Earth didn’t suddenly pop in to existence 5 minutes ago.
[/quote]
You can prove it deductively by THINKING:
Does a sun have an unlimited lifespan/fuel supply and remain in class II secchi stage forever(whatever forever means)? Doesn’t a planet need to be orbiting something? Didn’t the universe only reach a stage where suns could be created about 200 million years after the big bang? Aren’t planets made from the elements within giant stars that explode at the end of their lifecycle(supernovae)? Isn’t it true that space itself and time did not exist/begin until AFTER the big bang which was about 14 billion years ago?
The answers to these questions which are already known PROVE that the earth hasn’t ‘been here always(whatever always means)’. You don’t need carbon dating or rock layering to answer his question. Just common sense and some general knowledge about the universe we live in.[/quote]
I am sorry , this is nonsenses, you can prove nothing , except we know the earth did not just appear 10 minutes ago.
You example of the sun , just because the sun has a limited existence on means the sun maybe has a limited life and was the sun something before it was a sun and so on.
I am no expert ,but maybe you know the answer , if you carbon date a diamond, does that date it back to when it was coal , and when it’s was oil , or all the back to when it was a forest?
[/quote]
Contrary to being an expert I consider myself to be ignorant of Science/Physics/Maths…but not in comparison to people who ask ‘how do we know the earth wasn’t always here?’.
Before it was a sun, it was an enormous amount of Hydrogen and Helium floating in space that was drawn together by gravitational force. This gas was further compressed by gravity until it reached a critical point and began nuclear fussion.
RE Diamonds. Interesting you mention diamonds as the difficulty in measuring their age has aroused creationists. Diamonds cannot by measured via carbon dating. They can(apparently) be measured with other radioactive decay methods however, e.g. uranium-lead. Like I said, I’m not an expert.[/quote]
Thanks for the theory of the origin of the sun
My question about aging was not necessarily about carbon dating , it was to determine when they do get the age of something is it just how long has it been the one thing or is it (DIAMOND) or when it was (COAL) or when it was (OIL) or the forest before ? Do you understand my question? I know the diamond ios a bad example
[/quote]
They are measuring the radioactive decay of the elements within a diamond. The elements within a diamond are carbon. Carbon is also in coal and the trees/animals that created the coal. Diamonds however are extremely dense(compressed). I do not understand the process of measuring the radioactive decay of carbon in diamonds. Sorry I can’t help here.[/quote]
Thanks any how