Open Carry Law

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
By the way, the red flags always go up when I hear, “I am not an anti-gun guy. I own several pistols/shotguns/rifles…”

Why?

Because all too often the next words out of the same mouth call for restrictions on, “the right of the people to keep and BEAR arms shall not be infringed.”

“Mr. Sheriff, pleeeeeeze allow me to exercise my God-given rights. Pleeeeeez. I’m promise I’ll be a good boy if you just give me my PERMIT that allows me to do what has already been guaranteed by my state and my federal constitutions. Thank you, kind sir.”[/quote]

I think OldOgre an me have more than likely seen similar people taking advantage of this law. The type people that are strapping a gun on their side are doing so because it makes them look like a Billy Badass. Some of these people I have hunted with and know that their concept of “bullet continues beyond target” is non-existent and if they are willing to send a rifle shot my way over a deer do you really think the opportunity to be a hero would slow them down.

As I said, there really is no realistic way to regulate that without infringing upon the 2nd and giving a tool to the anti-gun movement, so nothing should be done. However, I do not think that being apprehensive of some of these people toting around a gun at all times makes me anti-gun.[/quote]

And yet 100000 times the number of people die in car accidents. Gun deaths caused by law abiding citizens is such a non-issue. Makes for good rhetoric though as long as you don’t pay attention to the actual numbers.

There are far more people out there that have no business driving cars, but still do it. [/quote]

And driving a car is a “regulate-able” privilege not an inalienable right. For those who don’t understand the word “inalienable” look it up.[/quote]

As I am well aware, which is why I said that nothing should be done to limit that right. However, in a perfect world, those that choose to exercise that right would accept the personal responsibility of making themselves versed in how to properly use that gun that they have the right to. I still fail to see how saying that it concerns me that known idiots are now walking around with guns is anything less than logical? I am not saying take the guns away or keep them from carrying them, just that it concerns me to see someone who has very little concept on how to use a gun, toting a gun.[/quote]

So, what is your proposal about how to address the car issue? how do we force idiots to stop driving?[/quote]

We force idiots to stop driving all the time. That’s what happens when a license is suspended for DUI’s, excessive tickets, or even medical conditions that would make it dangerous to drive, IE epilepsy or blindness. Stevie Wonder and your local drunk cant drive a car but they can holster up if they choose to.[/quote]

Indeed. And therein lies the solution.

AFTER people fuck up we restrict their privileges. If we can do that with a mere privilege why can we not apply the same standard to a right?

Think this through, man. Think it through.[/quote]

But they have to prove they can drive before they are allowed to drive. The same thing is not true for carrying a gun. I have thought it through and I find it very concerning that the same people who have proven to have no regard for my life when there is a deer between us now carrying guns around all the time is concerning. Not to mention, DUI is a preventative thing, Will you still be able to open carry drunk? And I listed one instance in Florida of carry gone wrong, haven’t really bothered to dig for others. And I am not saying that these are going to be common place, merely I am looking for that one colossal fuck-up that kills a kid while trying to stop a shoplifter at Wal-Mart. It may happen in MS, AZ, NC, or ID but the more incompetent people that start to carry the more likely that becomes. And when it happens the anti-gun shit storm will be unreal.

42

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

We force idiots to stop driving all the time. That’s what happens when a license is suspended for DUI’s, excessive tickets, or even medical conditions that would make it dangerous to drive, IE epilepsy or blindness. Stevie Wonder and your local drunk cant drive a car but they can holster up if they choose to.[/quote]

And people who use there guns irresponsibly in public, they don’t get stopped?

43

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

We force idiots to stop driving all the time. That’s what happens when a license is suspended for DUI’s, excessive tickets, or even medical conditions that would make it dangerous to drive, IE epilepsy or blindness. Stevie Wonder and your local drunk cant drive a car but they can holster up if they choose to.[/quote]

And people who use there guns irresponsibly in public, they don’t get stopped?[/quote]

Did you have to pass a test showing your competency to carry a gun?? If not then its not really quite the same thing as driving.

44

[quote]pushharder wrote:
For the record, I’m not chewing anyone out. Trying to make you think.

[/quote]

If he was chewing you out he would talk about “MENSA cards” and something about a “Belly Flop.”

47

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]OldOgre wrote:

While I do agree that cars kill way more people than guns, it is apples and oranges. You have to pass a test to show that you are minimally competent to get a drivers license and legally operate a vehicle on a roadway. There is no competency test to get a gun. And I sincerely apologize for implying that you are a dumbass while ago.

[/quote]

What is the difference between a right and a privilege? Tell me in your own words.

Should we have to pass a test in order to be able to worship as we please?

Should we have to pass a test in order to be able to write a letter petitioning the government?

Should we have to pass a test in order to publish a newspaper column? Or an internet blog? Or post on a muscle building website?

Should we have to pass a test in order to be able to have a jury trial?

Should we have to pass a test in order to be able to invoke our right to not self incriminate?

Answer these questions for me, kind sir.[/quote]

Should we have to pass a test before being able to bring a child into the world?

Should we have to pass a test before gaining the right to vote?

Should we have to pass a test before being able to post on Internet forums?

I’d hate to say “yes”, because such a thing reeks of totalitarianism, but it sure would solve a few problems in the short term.

48

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]OldOgre wrote:

While I do agree that cars kill way more people than guns, it is apples and oranges. You have to pass a test to show that you are minimally competent to get a drivers license and legally operate a vehicle on a roadway. There is no competency test to get a gun. And I sincerely apologize for implying that you are a dumbass while ago.

[/quote]

What is the difference between a right and a privilege? Tell me in your own words.

Should we have to pass a test in order to be able to worship as we please?

Should we have to pass a test in order to be able to write a letter petitioning the government?

Should we have to pass a test in order to publish a newspaper column? Or an internet blog? Or post on a muscle building website?

Should we have to pass a test in order to be able to have a jury trial?

Should we have to pass a test in order to be able to invoke our right to not self incriminate?

Answer these questions for me, kind sir.[/quote]

You are the one who started comparing cars and guns. I was simply pointing out that it was two different things. I know the difference between a right and a privilege. We aren’t in 5th grade.

Alabama has NEVER had a law that says you can’t OC. Why do we need one that says you can?

Do any of the States that you keep mentioning allow you to OC into WalMart, Target, etc.? Our new law does and it is not too far of a reach to image that turning into a federal interstate commerce suit resulting in federal restrictions. Has that issue been litigated in the States that you mention?

How do you feel about the State telling you what other people can do on your own private property?

There was not one single thing wrong with the gun laws in our State before they passed this new law. You could OC. You could CC on a permit. All this new law has done is cost time and money and invite trouble. If it aint broke don’t fix it.

49

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
For the record, I’m not chewing anyone out. Trying to make you think.

[/quote]

If he was chewing you out he would talk about “MENSA cards” and something about a “Belly Flop.”[/quote]

I am looking at this from more of the unintended future consequences angle than anything really.

50

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
For the record, I’m not chewing anyone out. Trying to make you think.

[/quote]

If he was chewing you out he would talk about “MENSA cards” and something about a “Belly Flop.”[/quote]

I am looking at this from more of the unintended future consequences angle than anything really.[/quote]

You will be fine. He likes you so he is wanting you to think about stuff. He is not trying to persuade you. I trust Push.

51

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

We force idiots to stop driving all the time. That’s what happens when a license is suspended for DUI’s, excessive tickets, or even medical conditions that would make it dangerous to drive, IE epilepsy or blindness. Stevie Wonder and your local drunk cant drive a car but they can holster up if they choose to.[/quote]

And people who use there guns irresponsibly in public, they don’t get stopped?[/quote]

Did you have to pass a test showing your competency to carry a gun?? If not then its not really quite the same thing as driving.[/quote]

Yes, written and practical. and Take a class. And pay several hundred dollars. And get finger printed. And pass a background check. and submit a notarized birth certificate.

But again, all the things you listed to stop idiots driving are post facto. Driving exams don’t stop idiots.

55

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Please answer my questions, Mr. Pick. You have deliberately and carefully avoided them.

Scroll back up and answer them, please.[/quote]

No, we should not have to prove our competency to exercise our rights. Although if we did we wouldn’t be in the mess with this president that were are in now.

A right is something that we are entitled to by God/Nature or the Government. Some are unalienable, others were provided by the government with the Bill of Rights, Constitution and subsequent Amendments. These cannot be denied to a person. A privilege can be denied if someone does something to violate the conditions upon which that privilege is contingent.

I think I covered them all.

57

[quote]
And I am not saying that these are going to be common place, merely I am looking for that one colossal fuck-up that kills a kid while trying to stop a shoplifter at Wal-Mart. It may happen in MS, AZ, NC, or ID but the more incompetent people that start to carry the more likely that becomes. And when it happens the anti-gun shit storm will be unreal.[/quote]

I am not saying that the situation that causes me the most concerned has occurred yet or even that it will, just that the more idiots that strap up to open carry, the more likely the scenario becomes and given the current climate this will be fuel to the fire that could land all gun ownership in jeopardy.

59

I am saying that MS just increases the potential. You already have NC, AZ, VA, ID and others. As the pool of open carriers increases so does the likelihood that something will happen. I do have a feeling that this will be one of those things where the idiots carry for a little while when its new then they will lose interest and stop and maybe the same thing has happened in other OC states. So maybe we will dodge that bullet (no pun intended). However, if other states have some of the same caliber of people running out to start toting their .357 wheel gun like a real cowboy, then they have just been lucky. Like I said before, I know some of these people and is the right situation occurs then the people around them are actually in danger.