Outside of the immedate allieviation of the joint issues, what were the milestones and timeline of your TRT success? Did you start to feel more mentally clear at month 3 … better sleep month 1 … better libido month 5 … how did it all shake out? And what was your favorite dose
Hard to say. Libido and arousal were insane for the first 3 weeks. Out of control really and I was glad when it tapered off a bit after 3 weeks. It’s been good ever since although with all my dosage tinkering and supplementing I can find ways to fuck it up. And I have. I just back up make a mental note and keep on trucking. Mentally I would say I’ve been better since day one. Depression and obsessive thought patterns went away. Sleep has never been much of an issue. I’ve never slept much and I’m good with that. Wake up every morning at 4am during the week and might sleep till 6am on the weekends.
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That is only .50ml on the syringe. Many guys with high SHGB do that and a lot more.
150mg/wk is a very common TRT dose for guys with high SHGB.
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@bmbrady77 @hrdlvn @alldayeveryday @enackers
I am a bit confused. I had bloodwork done last week
my test and estro are listed as high after 8 weeks trt
I am shocked to see my Estradiol is so high.
The ironic thing is the last two or three days have been the best in recent memory. I have felt overall just like i am better version of myself. I have felt happier and more energy after being kind of just blah for last few years. i have added some lean weight too and just feel good right now. Libido isnt raging by any means but it has made a recent comeback. But all of my pre TRT levels (list a few posts above) were so shtty that maybe ANY improvement is going to make me feel better than how i was feeling a few months back
Any feedback is appreciated.
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Lipid Panel
Category - Value - Normal Range
Non HDL Chol … 98mg/dL … <130
LDL Cholesterol … 90mg/dL … <130
HDL Cholesterol … 52mg/dL … >39
Triglyclerides … 38mg/dL … <150
CBC Panel
Hemoglobin (hgb) … 15.2 gm/dL … 14-18
Red Blood Cell Count (RBC) … 4.77 M/mm3 … 4.20 - 5.70
Hematocrit (HCT) … 45.3% … 42.2-53.8
Esinophils … 0.7 % … 1.0-8.0%
Basophils … 1.6% … 0.0-1.5%
Bilirubin, Tot … 1.7 mg/dL … <0.2 - 1.2 mg/dL
eGFR (Black) … >60 … >60
eGFR (White) … 53 … >60
(im white)
Creatine … 1.5 mg/dL … 0.7-1.3
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel (CMP)
Albunim … 4.3 g/dL … 3.5-5.3
AST (SGOT) … 43 IU/L … <5-46
ALT (SGPT) … 27 IU/L … <5-55
BUN … 11mg/dL … 6-20
Glucose … 78mg/dL … 65-99
Estradiol … 66 pg/mL … 11-43
Free T3 … 3.30 pg/mL … 2.30-4.40
Thyroxin Free (T4) … 1.35 ng/dL … 0.86 - 1.76
LH … <0.3 mIU/mL … no range given
Total Test … >1500 ng/dL … 264-916
Progesterone … 0.14 ng/dL … <0.15
Free Test … Cannot Calc … 33-227
Test Bioavailability … Cannot Calc … 131-682
SHBG … 46.4 nmol/L … 16.5 - 55.9
Free Test … Cannot Calc % … 1.60-2.90
THS …1.36 mIU/L … 0.27-4.20
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I’d say for as high as your T is, that E2 looks about right. May need to back your dose down a hair, especially if your hct starts creeping up over time. Keep an eye on it.
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@bmbrady77 agreed - however HTC was almost 53 when i started. So it has actually come down some. where should it be?
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I would retest with lc/ms for testosterone to get an accurate reading on total test as well as getting a handle on what your free t actually looks like. If this bloodwork was pulled at trough I’d imagine even with your high shbg that your free t is well above scale. Your hct is legit sitting at 45 and 66 on e2 isnt crazy high. I would retest and adjust your T Cyp dose down according to free t. That will bring your e2 down and hopefully keep you feeling like a rock star indefinitely.
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Here’s a few comments.
You got these bloods on
Rx: 120 mg Test Cyp / Week … 750 HCG / Week (40Mg x3; 250 x3 - both SubQ) ?
Are you sure you drew at trough?
Any idea why your liver is so unhappy?
AST (SGOT) … 43 IU/L ;5-46
ALT (SGPT) … 27 IU/L ;5-55
You started with Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) nmol/L 16.5 - 55.9 21.2
and now it’s 46 that is very interesting. Going on TRT usually drop SHGB over time.
Your HCT is pretty low for having such a high T level. Did you have anemia before TRT?
The 45 is great number and that would allow you keep the high T if you are OK with the E2.
Fixing the E2 you got two choices. Take an AI or drop your T dose. I’m not a believe in DIM or food to reduce E2. Some report it helps it did not for me. My first year of TRT I could not get an AI script so I tried everything and nothing works. I had to fire my doc and went with the defy clinic. I could not be happier for the last 4 years.
Your comments about feeling creeky joints and thinking you had low E2 is a very good example of how we really never know what is causing a feeling or symptom without real blood numbers.
Guessing has a 50/50 chance of getting it wrong. As to why you are feel good or at least better than pre TRT well you have been on TRT long enough to start healing even if your prptocol is not tuned in yet you could also still be in your honeymoon. Only time will tell.
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That’s awesome @hrdlvn. Your right it varies from one person to another. I will say that pre trt my shbg was 16 and after a year on trt my shbg was 24. So it does happen. Also like the OP my pre trt hct was 41% and is now ranging around 45 as well. My e2 was lower than his at <2.5. DIM did not work for my workout partner at all but I supplemented dim while taking 300 mg per week and crashed my e2 back down to <2.5.
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That is great to hear. If one feels good there is no reason in lowering estrogen. If anything that’s going to cause more issues.
I personally would just run with what I have. You can lower the dose and still have high free t. Your estrogen is supposed to drop a little with it.
Are you still on HCG?
I appreciate the input. This is actually why i am confused.
The back aches and knee aches have subsided. That seemed like it was more of a “flare up” if that makes sense as the creaky joints kinda came out of nowhere and now they have gone away.
I think my HCT was 52 before TRT … now its lower. That is counterintuitive … right? But my first labs i think i was dehydrated … so
I rarely drink and have been eating clean 85% of the time … i have ZERO idea why the lover values were skewed and that was one of my primary concerns. That and my eGFR seems off. It was off last time too and i made sure to drink a lot of water consistently since my inital (non-fasting) labs were taken. The labs last week were fasting levels
Also - i steadily dropped the HCG to phase it out. So these values for test are (for most of the time i have been on TRT) are HCG-free… which makes it even more surprising
If your balls aren’t throbbing with a dull pain it good you went off the HCG because your E2 probably would have been much higher.
We also can’t rule out lab errors in both pre and post TRT. If something really looks off never trust just one blood test. My lab hires kids making minimum wage to run some of these tests. We all know how deticated kids are to their jobs.
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i had some discomfort maybe a month ago but no throbbing … maybe an ache here or there. and then i thought they were shrinking (mybe by a 1/3rd?) but i wasnt sure … they were definitely “tight” against my body which was more of a concern … and as of a week ago they feel fine and no tightness issues. just the opposite actually
appreciate the info
i do feel good - and i look good. i have had more than a few friends or fam come up to me and grab my arm and ask if i am working out. i have always remained in shape but now i have noticable gains (from 3rd party - i dont think its that obvious)
That said i have jumped from 179 to 194 in 3 months. lots of hard days at the gym, using a new workout with progressive overload incorporated, but i am sure the test is a big factor.
all those are positives, BUT … my libido is still kinda blah. That confuses me. i even added more fish oil and 10 mg boron last week to see if i could help free up test and jump start my libido
It does sound like you are progressing nicely. Libido was the last think that kicked in for me.
It really is nice to get the occasional complement with all the hard work we put in. I’ve been getting a few looks lately by the bigger 30 somethings at my gym. They know something is up since I am old as dirt. HaHa
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@hrdlvn agreed. i have never been one to run to the spotlight so its been weird to have friends come up and look at my arms and ask if i am on the juice. but it is nice to begin to realize that my hard work has paid off. i honestly dont think i am any bigger than i have been in my prime 10 years ago … but others say its night and day.
I can tell that i have A LOT more veins. Really can see it in my shoulder-pec area
how long was it before your Lib kicked in?
Whats your protocol?
Do you think my E is too high?
re-reading this … i dropped the HGC during week3
So 90% of the time i was on Test only
I dont have a “trough” honestly as i iject 40 mg 3 times a week
how long was it before your Lib kicked in?
Over a year and it kind of happened by accident my Doc raised my protocol too high and TT went over 1500. I was f-ing chasing my wife around the house like we were first married, I was 62 years old, insert OMG emoji here, and an hour later I had my dick in my hand wanting more. I haulted all trt shots for 1 week to come down. Thank god my wife had a sense of humor and helped me thru that. I told her what was happening and she just laughed.
Whats your protocol?
Right now its 80mg/wk divided into two shots with a 400mg/wk for 12 weeks cycle twice a year.
Do you think my E is too high? Yes
But you need to get your TT where you think is should be and then start experimenting with different E2 levels. My shgb is 24-29 and I love an E2 between 24-27 if my E2 goes over 35 I get bad side effects. That does not mean you will. You and only you have to experiment to see what works for you.
Does that make sense?
that does
i have not taken an AI yet and wasnt sure if/when/how often/dose etc of the AI … i had also thought about adding something else in that would raise libido while dropping the T down a bit … but i havent implemented anything … just want to create a simple gameplan and not make it too complicated but not sure what the answer is
There are a lot of guys on this forum down on taking an AI. I’m am not one of them. AI are F-ing amazing but you have to treat them with respect they are very powerful. .25mg/wk 1/4 of a 1mg pill can be too much. Again you have to experiment to see how they work for you.
Me, when I get extra sensitive I take one .125mg and in 4 hours my symptoms are gone. I don’t take another unless my symptoms persist. The trick is learning what high E2 feels like for you. Until you know those feelings you won’t know when to take an AI. Yes you are going to have some shitty days figuring this out but you got to do it. Once you figure out how your body responds to T and an AI you have the power to fix yourself.