One Punch, One Kill

Off Topic
221

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Can you give an example of a persons being violent that has nothing to do with their genetics or mind? I highly doubt it.
[/quote]

Yes, their environment. Never been to a rough city have you?[/quote]

If their environment has taught them to be needlessly violent, then it’s a psychological problem. Try again. [/quote]

This is WHY I will not engage you any longer. You’re out of your depth. You read some text books and formed an opinion.

For example, above you say “needlessly violent”. In some neighborhoods a proclivity to violence IS necessary. And even if it were a psychological problem, you’d have to remove the “patient” permanently from the environment. Between re-locations and all the euthenasia we’ll be doing, I’m not sure we’ll have any money left. What’s going to happen to my taxes? LOL[/quote]

When would violence be nessessary if not for self preservation? What exactly do you mean here?

Also, it follows to base your opinion of a population on statistics to the scope of the population, not to the scope of your own experiences.

It’s hardly impossible for a person to move away from persons they don’t want to be around. That happens all the time, so I’m not sure what you mean here either.

222

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]Nards wrote:
RyuuKyuzo, it just sounds like you got a book on logic or critical thinking or took a rhetoric class and keep using the words you’ve learned too often.
[/quote]

Therefore???
Honestly, there’s more ad-hominems than actual arguments in this thread. Apparently, everything I say is inherently wrong becuase I’m a communist-liberal-anticapitalist-autistic-hippie-faggot 17 year old, of which only the last one is actually true. The only real argument anyone has made is “prisons keeps them off the street”, which I’ve adressed so many times I feel like ramming a spike through my head everytime one of you brings it up for the thousandth time.

[/quote]

You’re a faggot 17 year old? I knew I was right.

Do you think being gay has given you the outlook you have on rehabilitation? And do you think gays such as yourself can be “rehabilitated” and thus brought within normal, reproductive society?[/quote]

The last part meaning my age.

223

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Can you give an example of a persons being violent that has nothing to do with their genetics or mind? I highly doubt it.
[/quote]

Yes, their environment. Never been to a rough city have you?[/quote]

If their environment has taught them to be needlessly violent, then it’s a psychological problem. Try again. [/quote]

This is WHY I will not engage you any longer. You’re out of your depth. You read some text books and formed an opinion.

For example, above you say “needlessly violent”. In some neighborhoods a proclivity to violence IS necessary. And even if it were a psychological problem, you’d have to remove the “patient” permanently from the environment. Between re-locations and all the euthenasia we’ll be doing, I’m not sure we’ll have any money left. What’s going to happen to my taxes? LOL[/quote]

When would violence be nessessary if not for self preservation? What exactly do you mean here?

Also, it follows to base your opinion of a population on statistics to the scope of the population, not to the scope of your own experiences.

It’s hardly impossible for a person to move away from persons they don’t want to be around. That happens all the time, so I’m not sure what you mean here either. [/quote]

You live in a cocoon. The reason no one wants to argue with you anymore is because you lack real life experience on which to base your arguments. Write a thesis and get this out of your system.

224

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Can you give an example of a persons being violent that has nothing to do with their genetics or mind? I highly doubt it.
[/quote]

Yes, their environment. Never been to a rough city have you?[/quote]

If their environment has taught them to be needlessly violent, then it’s a psychological problem. Try again. [/quote]

This is WHY I will not engage you any longer. You’re out of your depth. You read some text books and formed an opinion.

For example, above you say “needlessly violent”. In some neighborhoods a proclivity to violence IS necessary. And even if it were a psychological problem, you’d have to remove the “patient” permanently from the environment. Between re-locations and all the euthenasia we’ll be doing, I’m not sure we’ll have any money left. What’s going to happen to my taxes? LOL[/quote]

When would violence be nessessary if not for self preservation? What exactly do you mean here?

Also, it follows to base your opinion of a population on statistics to the scope of the population, not to the scope of your own experiences.

It’s hardly impossible for a person to move away from persons they don’t want to be around. That happens all the time, so I’m not sure what you mean here either. [/quote]

I can’t resist. You think if you have limited resources you can move “away from persons” they don’t want to be around? Have you ever fucking been to a ghetto? You think everyone WANTS to live there? Get a fucking clue and get your nose out of theory for a while…when you have some “practice”, you can wow us with your theories.

225

I think we can all agree to forgive the guy if he KOs RyuuKyuzo. I don’t necessarily want him to die, perhaps just some minor brain damage that prevents him from posting.

226

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Can you give an example of a persons being violent that has nothing to do with their genetics or mind? I highly doubt it.
[/quote]

Yes, their environment. Never been to a rough city have you?[/quote]

If their environment has taught them to be needlessly violent, then it’s a psychological problem. Try again. [/quote]

This is WHY I will not engage you any longer. You’re out of your depth. You read some text books and formed an opinion.

For example, above you say “needlessly violent”. In some neighborhoods a proclivity to violence IS necessary. And even if it were a psychological problem, you’d have to remove the “patient” permanently from the environment. Between re-locations and all the euthenasia we’ll be doing, I’m not sure we’ll have any money left. What’s going to happen to my taxes? LOL[/quote]

When would violence be nessessary if not for self preservation? What exactly do you mean here?

Also, it follows to base your opinion of a population on statistics to the scope of the population, not to the scope of your own experiences.

It’s hardly impossible for a person to move away from persons they don’t want to be around. That happens all the time, so I’m not sure what you mean here either. [/quote]

You live in a cocoon. The reason no one wants to argue with you anymore is because you lack real life experience on which to base your arguments. Write a thesis and get this out of your system.[/quote]

Again, it follows to base your opinion of a population on statistics to the scope of the population, not to the scope of your own experiences. That doesn’t make any sense at all. When deciding what to do relative to your own life, sure, consider your own experiences first, but when deciding what to do relative to EVERYONE, you have to consider more than just yourself.

For not wanting to talk to me, you all seem to be doing as hell of a lot of it.

Besides, none of you know anything about me other than my age, the country I’m currently in and opinion on the “justice” system. You know nothing about my experiences but you all have saw fit to assert and ascribe the most ridiculous character traits your minds could fathom onto me. As though who I am as a person has any relevence to my argument. =/

227

So China has low crime rate, but as a police state punishes crime strictly and severely. Your rebuttal?

And am I to understand you are arguing that Russia is a 1st-world country?

228

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]Nards wrote:
RyuuKyuzo, it just sounds like you got a book on logic or critical thinking or took a rhetoric class and keep using the words you’ve learned too often.
[/quote]

Therefore???
Honestly, there’s more ad-hominems than actual arguments in this thread. Apparently, everything I say is inherently wrong becuase I’m a communist-liberal-anticapitalist-autistic-hippie-faggot 17 year old, of which only the last one is actually true. The only real argument anyone has made is “prisons keeps them off the street”, which I’ve adressed so many times I feel like ramming a spike through my head everytime one of you brings it up for the thousandth time.

[/quote]
The reason you feel like ramming a spike through your head is because you’re 17. Just drop all this and go do what I did when I was 17…egg the Earl of Dorchester’s house and write ribald tales about his mistresses’ activities with Friar Bartholomew.

229

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Can you give an example of a persons being violent that has nothing to do with their genetics or mind? I highly doubt it.
[/quote]

Yes, their environment. Never been to a rough city have you?[/quote]

If their environment has taught them to be needlessly violent, then it’s a psychological problem. Try again. [/quote]

This is WHY I will not engage you any longer. You’re out of your depth. You read some text books and formed an opinion.

For example, above you say “needlessly violent”. In some neighborhoods a proclivity to violence IS necessary. And even if it were a psychological problem, you’d have to remove the “patient” permanently from the environment. Between re-locations and all the euthenasia we’ll be doing, I’m not sure we’ll have any money left. What’s going to happen to my taxes? LOL[/quote]

When would violence be nessessary if not for self preservation? What exactly do you mean here?

Also, it follows to base your opinion of a population on statistics to the scope of the population, not to the scope of your own experiences.

It’s hardly impossible for a person to move away from persons they don’t want to be around. That happens all the time, so I’m not sure what you mean here either. [/quote]

I can’t resist. You think if you have limited resources you can move “away from persons” they don’t want to be around? Have you ever fucking been to a ghetto? You think everyone WANTS to live there? Get a fucking clue and get your nose out of theory for a while…when you have some “practice”, you can wow us with your theories. [/quote]

Being poor isn’t an excuse for being a violent criminal. A theif perhaps, but being poor is no excuse for arbitrarily cold-cocking someone. There’s something else going on. Besides, I don’t buy the supposed impossibility of leaving a ghetto. If your life is so bad that it’s actually risking your sanity, at least grab a tent and gtfo.

Having said that, most poverty would dissapear if capitalism prevailed to a greater extent.

230

[quote]Nards wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]Nards wrote:
RyuuKyuzo, it just sounds like you got a book on logic or critical thinking or took a rhetoric class and keep using the words you’ve learned too often.
[/quote]

Therefore???
Honestly, there’s more ad-hominems than actual arguments in this thread. Apparently, everything I say is inherently wrong becuase I’m a communist-liberal-anticapitalist-autistic-hippie-faggot 17 year old, of which only the last one is actually true. The only real argument anyone has made is “prisons keeps them off the street”, which I’ve adressed so many times I feel like ramming a spike through my head everytime one of you brings it up for the thousandth time.

[/quote]
The reason you feel like ramming a spike through your head is because you’re 17. Just drop all this and go do what I did when I was 17…egg the Earl of Dorchester’s house and write ribald tales about his mistresses’ activities with Friar Bartholomew.
[/quote]

lolwut

231

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Can you give an example of a persons being violent that has nothing to do with their genetics or mind? I highly doubt it.
[/quote]

Yes, their environment. Never been to a rough city have you?[/quote]

If their environment has taught them to be needlessly violent, then it’s a psychological problem. Try again. [/quote]

This is WHY I will not engage you any longer. You’re out of your depth. You read some text books and formed an opinion.

For example, above you say “needlessly violent”. In some neighborhoods a proclivity to violence IS necessary. And even if it were a psychological problem, you’d have to remove the “patient” permanently from the environment. Between re-locations and all the euthenasia we’ll be doing, I’m not sure we’ll have any money left. What’s going to happen to my taxes? LOL[/quote]

When would violence be nessessary if not for self preservation? What exactly do you mean here?

Also, it follows to base your opinion of a population on statistics to the scope of the population, not to the scope of your own experiences.

It’s hardly impossible for a person to move away from persons they don’t want to be around. That happens all the time, so I’m not sure what you mean here either. [/quote]

I can’t resist. You think if you have limited resources you can move “away from persons” they don’t want to be around? Have you ever fucking been to a ghetto? You think everyone WANTS to live there? Get a fucking clue and get your nose out of theory for a while…when you have some “practice”, you can wow us with your theories. [/quote]

Being poor isn’t an excuse for being a violent criminal. A theif perhaps, but being poor is no excuse for arbitrarily cold-cocking someone. There’s something else going on. Besides, I don’t buy the supposed impossibility of leaving a ghetto. If your life is so bad that it’s actually risking your sanity, at least grab a tent and gtfo.

Having said that, most poverty would dissapear if capitalism prevailed to a greater extent. [/quote]
Ah, so who do you support, Keynes or Hayek?

232

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

Being poor isn’t an excuse for being a violent criminal. A theif perhaps, but being poor is no excuse for arbitrarily cold-cocking someone. There’s something else going on. Besides, I don’t buy the supposed impossibility of leaving a ghetto. If your life is so bad that it’s actually risking your sanity, at least grab a tent and gtfo.

Having said that, most poverty would dissapear if capitalism prevailed to a greater extent. [/quote]

A chink in your arguments …when we talk about real life, which you cannot experience in a text book, you lose some of your intellectual eloquence.

Living in a neighborhood where violence is a real threat just walking down your block is something you are not acquainted with. That they are poor and reside there is secondary to the environment. The threat of violence, everyday, is a real fact of life in some places. That such residents have to survive in this environment - adapt if you will - does not lend itself to your psychological problem theory. And we’ve far removed ourselves from the case of randomly cold cocking someone long ago, so don’t try to fall back on that. We have graduated to talking about violence in society, and your theories of the causes and cures. And we have all tried to tell you that real life does not fit neatly into your theories.

You don’t buy the practicality (your “impossible” hyperbole aside) of leaving the ghetto? When is the last time you lived in one? Where do you live now? You’re 17. Ever gone hungry? Ever not know where your next dollar might come from but know that the rent and electric bill is due anyway? If just getting up and leaving the ghetto were so easy, tell me son, why isn’t everyone just leaving? Maybe you’re not familiar with the working poor, raising kids in that environment, who would pick up in a second if they could…and struggle to find a way out every day, week, month and year.

Come back when you grow some hairs, and started drinking beers. Your theories are just that…theories. They sound nice and neat on paper, right up until the point you try to make them work in the real world.

233

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Besides, I don’t buy the supposed impossibility of leaving a ghetto. If your life is so bad that it’s actually risking your sanity, at least grab a tent and gtfo.

[/quote]

You don’t really believe this, do you?

Your assigned reading for the weekend: “Bridges Out of Poverty” by Dr. Ruby Payne. You will learn that America operates under what’s typically known as “Middle Class Values.” These values, which include anything from knowing how to mail a certified letter to opening and maintaining a savings account, are second-nature for people like you and me. However, in the same way that the middle class has its own values and culture, so does the upper class and, yes, the lower class.

I work for a social service organization that works to prevent homelessness in Dallas and rehouse those who are currently homeless. We’re incredibly successful–80% of people who graduate from our programs never return to social services in their lifetime–largely because of the 3 theories under which we operate, one being recognizing the Culture of Poverty. You’d be amazed at what we have to teach our clients. Really, you would. We have to teach them how to balance a checkbook, how to talk to a customer service representative on the phone, etc. It’s not uncommon for a client to pay their cable bill before their electric bill, not thinking about how if they don’t have electricity, they won’t have cable either. In short, we have to teach them how to live in the middle class in order to climb out of poverty.

All this to say, if you really believe getting out of poverty is that easy, you’re just a fool. Or perhaps just an idealistic 17-year-old.

234

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Can you give an example of a persons being violent that has nothing to do with their genetics or mind? I highly doubt it.
[/quote]

Yes, their environment. Never been to a rough city have you?[/quote]

If their environment has taught them to be needlessly violent, then it’s a psychological problem. Try again. [/quote]

This is WHY I will not engage you any longer. You’re out of your depth. You read some text books and formed an opinion.

For example, above you say “needlessly violent”. In some neighborhoods a proclivity to violence IS necessary. And even if it were a psychological problem, you’d have to remove the “patient” permanently from the environment. Between re-locations and all the euthenasia we’ll be doing, I’m not sure we’ll have any money left. What’s going to happen to my taxes? LOL[/quote]

When would violence be nessessary if not for self preservation? What exactly do you mean here?

Also, it follows to base your opinion of a population on statistics to the scope of the population, not to the scope of your own experiences.

It’s hardly impossible for a person to move away from persons they don’t want to be around. That happens all the time, so I’m not sure what you mean here either. [/quote]

I can’t resist. You think if you have limited resources you can move “away from persons” they don’t want to be around? Have you ever fucking been to a ghetto? You think everyone WANTS to live there? Get a fucking clue and get your nose out of theory for a while…when you have some “practice”, you can wow us with your theories. [/quote]

Being poor isn’t an excuse for being a violent criminal. A theif perhaps, but being poor is no excuse for arbitrarily cold-cocking someone. There’s something else going on. Besides, I don’t buy the supposed impossibility of leaving a ghetto. If your life is so bad that it’s actually risking your sanity, at least grab a tent and gtfo.

Having said that, most poverty would dissapear if capitalism prevailed to a greater extent. [/quote]
WOW.LOL.

Someone lives in fantasy land.

235

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

Being poor isn’t an excuse for being a violent criminal. A theif perhaps, but being poor is no excuse for arbitrarily cold-cocking someone. There’s something else going on. Besides, I don’t buy the supposed impossibility of leaving a ghetto.
. [/quote]

Well I can say that I agree with that simply because it is true (the former part). At the same time I agree with the principle of the second part being that you are responsible for your actions and therefor position in life (not saying that it will all be magically solved, but only YOU can decide how to react to a situation, the situation you can’t control). Unfortunately in the real world not all people have the mental capacity to reach this “epiphany” and accumulate enough knowledge and wisdom to change the course of their lives. To think that you can fix these problems or that it should be legislation is naive. It doesn’t mean we should stop trying but just accept that every effort for improvement is by grace and not by responsibility.

The bottom line is if you really want to see a change you have to be the one that goes out there and does it, you can not expect someone else to carry the responsibility which brings us to the rift between ideal and feasible.

“life is tough, get over it”

236

[quote]ChelaW wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Besides, I don’t buy the supposed impossibility of leaving a ghetto. If your life is so bad that it’s actually risking your sanity, at least grab a tent and gtfo.

[/quote]

You don’t really believe this, do you?

Your assigned reading for the weekend: “Bridges Out of Poverty” by Dr. Ruby Payne. You will learn that America operates under what’s typically known as “Middle Class Values.” These values, which include anything from knowing how to mail a certified letter to opening and maintaining a savings account, are second-nature for people like you and me. However, in the same way that the middle class has its own values and culture, so does the upper class and, yes, the lower class.

I work for a social service organization that works to prevent homelessness in Dallas and rehouse those who are currently homeless. We’re incredibly successful–80% of people who graduate from our programs never return to social services in their lifetime–largely because of the 3 theories under which we operate, one being recognizing the Culture of Poverty. You’d be amazed at what we have to teach our clients. Really, you would. We have to teach them how to balance a checkbook, how to talk to a customer service representative on the phone, etc. It’s not uncommon for a client to pay their cable bill before their electric bill, not thinking about how if they don’t have electricity, they won’t have cable either. In short, we have to teach them how to live in the middle class in order to climb out of poverty.

All this to say, if you really believe getting out of poverty is that easy, you’re just a fool. Or perhaps just an idealistic 17-year-old.[/quote]

Please mi amore, don’t confuse him with reality. Text books and theory only. Practice and life have no place in this “debate”! He’s got a neat little theory that he is quite fond of and when he’s not patting himself on the back for his genius, he will be happy to tell you about his theories.

237

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
So China has low crime rate, but as a police state punishes crime strictly and severely. Your rebuttal?

And am I to understand you are arguing that Russia is a 1st-world country?[/quote]

This is… Actually a good argument. I’m glad to see there’s at least one persons here using relevant points, other than outlaw… then again that seemed to have been a one time deal and looking back it was more a matter of me having low standards than him posting a good argument.

/Tangent

Anyway, relatively speaking, no I cannot honestly say that Russia is as developed as North America. Then again, I’m basing this on statistics and apparently statistics mean nothing in comparison to ones limited first person experiences according to some, but whatever.

Russia is less developed and has a harsher government. Southern Africa is even less developed and has an even harsher government. This is the trend I see. I assert that more developed nations are generally safer places to live and I don’t think that statement is terribly controversial.

China certainly appears to be an exception, but when you look a little deeper than its politics the reason is clear. The United States incarcerates 726 prisoners per 100,000 persons. This in contrast to China’s 118. That’s right, being in the U.S. makes you over 6 times more likely to go to prison than in China. So once again you see this trend of a stricter nation having higher homicide rates. Granted, Russia actually comes second to the U.S. in terms of incarceration, but it has much harsher punishments to compensate (for example, capital punishment is carried out with bullets).

Something worth noting, Colombia has the longest average prison sentence length, at 137 years. It also leads the world in kidnappings (total, per $ GDP and per capita), murders per capita, mortality due to assaults by explosive material(total and per capita), mortality due to assaults by other and unspecified firearm discharge per capita, and mortality due to assaults by sharp objects per capita.

Colombia is second for murders with firearms (total and per capita) and third for total murders. It is also in the top five for mortality due to assault in 18 of the 22 recorded categories.

If there is a solution to violent crime, harsher prison sentences is not it.

238

[quote]Nards wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Can you give an example of a persons being violent that has nothing to do with their genetics or mind? I highly doubt it.
[/quote]

Yes, their environment. Never been to a rough city have you?[/quote]

If their environment has taught them to be needlessly violent, then it’s a psychological problem. Try again. [/quote]

This is WHY I will not engage you any longer. You’re out of your depth. You read some text books and formed an opinion.

For example, above you say “needlessly violent”. In some neighborhoods a proclivity to violence IS necessary. And even if it were a psychological problem, you’d have to remove the “patient” permanently from the environment. Between re-locations and all the euthenasia we’ll be doing, I’m not sure we’ll have any money left. What’s going to happen to my taxes? LOL[/quote]

When would violence be nessessary if not for self preservation? What exactly do you mean here?

Also, it follows to base your opinion of a population on statistics to the scope of the population, not to the scope of your own experiences.

It’s hardly impossible for a person to move away from persons they don’t want to be around. That happens all the time, so I’m not sure what you mean here either. [/quote]

I can’t resist. You think if you have limited resources you can move “away from persons” they don’t want to be around? Have you ever fucking been to a ghetto? You think everyone WANTS to live there? Get a fucking clue and get your nose out of theory for a while…when you have some “practice”, you can wow us with your theories. [/quote]

Being poor isn’t an excuse for being a violent criminal. A theif perhaps, but being poor is no excuse for arbitrarily cold-cocking someone. There’s something else going on. Besides, I don’t buy the supposed impossibility of leaving a ghetto. If your life is so bad that it’s actually risking your sanity, at least grab a tent and gtfo.

Having said that, most poverty would dissapear if capitalism prevailed to a greater extent. [/quote]
Ah, so who do you support, Keynes or Hayek?
[/quote]

Gotta go with the Austrian on this one.

239

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

Being poor isn’t an excuse for being a violent criminal. A theif perhaps, but being poor is no excuse for arbitrarily cold-cocking someone. There’s something else going on. Besides, I don’t buy the supposed impossibility of leaving a ghetto. If your life is so bad that it’s actually risking your sanity, at least grab a tent and gtfo.

Having said that, most poverty would dissapear if capitalism prevailed to a greater extent. [/quote]

A chink in your arguments …when we talk about real life, which you cannot experience in a text book, you lose some of your intellectual eloquence.

Living in a neighborhood where violence is a real threat just walking down your block is something you are not acquainted with. That they are poor and reside there is secondary to the environment. The threat of violence, everyday, is a real fact of life in some places. That such residents have to survive in this environment - adapt if you will - does not lend itself to your psychological problem theory. And we’ve far removed ourselves from the case of randomly cold cocking someone long ago, so don’t try to fall back on that. We have graduated to talking about violence in society, and your theories of the causes and cures. And we have all tried to tell you that real life does not fit neatly into your theories.

You don’t buy the practicality (your “impossible” hyperbole aside) of leaving the ghetto? When is the last time you lived in one? Where do you live now? You’re 17. Ever gone hungry? Ever not know where your next dollar might come from but know that the rent and electric bill is due anyway? If just getting up and leaving the ghetto were so easy, tell me son, why isn’t everyone just leaving? Maybe you’re not familiar with the working poor, raising kids in that environment, who would pick up in a second if they could…and struggle to find a way out every day, week, month and year.

Come back when you grow some hairs, and started drinking beers. Your theories are just that…theories. They sound nice and neat on paper, right up until the point you try to make them work in the real world. [/quote]

Oh, that’s right I forgot, in the “REAL” world, only vengence can deter crime. That explains why Colombia has such a low crime rate… Oh wait. =/

I didn’t grow up with much. By Canada’s standards, I was in poverty for a good chunk of my childhood. Not once did it require me to use violence outside of self defence, however. But if the price for living in low income housing is my sanity, I for one would rather live in a tent, at least until I happen upon a better place to live.

Hell, I was breaking into other person’s homes and garages for fun when I was 8 years old! I didn’t think much of it, I just did what the older kids where doing. But none of that matters outside the scope of my own life. I can’t use it as an argument for what everyone should do and I’m shocked that so many persons on here expect me to do just that.

There may be a million reasons why those in ghettos don’t simply leave, ranging from fear to actually embracing thier culturally glorified lifestyle, but that has no bearing on the fact than at any time you can simply walk away. I don’t think I have to tell you about personal responsibility. Granted, it COULD be much easier to leave than it is now, but this is more of a political problem.

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[quote]ChelaW wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Besides, I don’t buy the supposed impossibility of leaving a ghetto. If your life is so bad that it’s actually risking your sanity, at least grab a tent and gtfo.

[/quote]

You don’t really believe this, do you?

Your assigned reading for the weekend: “Bridges Out of Poverty” by Dr. Ruby Payne. You will learn that America operates under what’s typically known as “Middle Class Values.” These values, which include anything from knowing how to mail a certified letter to opening and maintaining a savings account, are second-nature for people like you and me. However, in the same way that the middle class has its own values and culture, so does the upper class and, yes, the lower class.

I work for a social service organization that works to prevent homelessness in Dallas and rehouse those who are currently homeless. We’re incredibly successful–80% of people who graduate from our programs never return to social services in their lifetime–largely because of the 3 theories under which we operate, one being recognizing the Culture of Poverty. You’d be amazed at what we have to teach our clients. Really, you would. We have to teach them how to balance a checkbook, how to talk to a customer service representative on the phone, etc. It’s not uncommon for a client to pay their cable bill before their electric bill, not thinking about how if they don’t have electricity, they won’t have cable either. In short, we have to teach them how to live in the middle class in order to climb out of poverty.

All this to say, if you really believe getting out of poverty is that easy, you’re just a fool. Or perhaps just an idealistic 17-year-old.[/quote]

Anyone with working limbs can literally grab some stuff and walk away from the things that are ruining their life. It’s not about getting out of poverty as being poor doesn’t make needless violence necessary, it’s about getting away from the persons that corrupt your psychology. Even if the price is being even poor-er for a time, if retaining your ability to function in society is the payoff, it’s worth it.

Having said that, I completely support what you do and if there were more out there like yourself, poverty would be a much less significant problem.