On Combat

Here ya go…from a newsweek article.

It is one of the most remarkableâ??and enduringâ??statistics about the way men fight war: in combat no more than a quarter of fighting men, even disciplined and well-trained soldiers, will fire their weapons. The claim, first made by military historian S.L.A. Marshall in his 1947 book, “Men Against Fire,” has become accepted wisdom. John Keegan, the popular historian of war, repeats it in his landmark 1976 study, “The Face of Battle.” So does historian Max Hastings in his widely read 1984 book on the D-Day invasion, “Overlord.”

The reason soldiers don’t shoot, explained Marshall, who claimed to have interviewed thousands of American GIs in World War II, is not that they are afraid, exactlyâ??although inertia, he wrote, is “fear’s twin.” Rather, they are restrained by a civilizing impulse not to kill and a faith that a few heroes will emerge to carry the actionâ??which, Marshall wrote, is generally what happens.

Over the years hundreds of journalists have quoted Marshall’s famous studyâ??including me, in the pages of NEWSWEEK. But last month a reader sent me a copy of a March 1989 article from American Heritage magazine that set me straight. In fact, there is no real evidence that so few soldiers open fire, writes Frederick Smoler in “The Secret of the Soldiers Who Don’t Shoot.” “It just may be,” concludes Smoler, “that Samuel Lyman Marshall made the whole thing up.”

Smoler reports on the digging of Harold P. (Bud) Leinbaugh, an Army infantryman who saw a lot of combat in Europe during the war, and a military historian named Roger Spiller. Both men were skeptical about Marshall’s claim, and they decided to look into his research. They discovered that among the soldiers Marshall interviewed at Makin Island, a battle in the Pacific, there was a tendency to fire too much, not too littleâ??to blaze away for no good reason. Marshall seems to have just invented his interviews in the European theater.

Why would Marshall make up such a thing? Marshall was “by professional upbringing and temperament a journalist above all,” wrote Spiller. Like many journalists then (and now), he was in love with the heroic ideal, that one man among many might stand up to carry the day. “Marshall may have come to war wanting it to be the place where single heroes counted,” says Leinbaugh.

Marshall himself apparently loved to play soldier, and he wanted to demonstrate that he knew more about combat than anyone else. His books seemed so detailed and persuasive, and he appeared to have interviewed so many soldiers, that readers believed him. Why did professional historians swallow Marshall’s claim? “Intellectual sloth,” wrote Spiller. Marshall’s theory seemed to “promise entree into the hidden world of combat.” (A 1994 New York Times review of “Reconciliation Road,” a memoir by Marshall’s grandson John Douglas Marshall that’s mostly about his grandfather’s assertion, concludes, “the most that the author can show is that his grandfather had tried to quantify what should have remained conjecture â?¦”)

Marshall claimed to have led men in combat in World War I. Apparently, that too was fiction. Marshall’s regiment in World War I was behind the lines, involved in road work and building delousing stations. Leinbaugh discovered records of Marshall’s unit, which include such stirring reports as “1 mule killed by kick from mule. Drop from rolls.” By the time Marshall was writing his World War II histories, he was claiming to have fought with three infantry regiments in two different divisions and in three separate countries.

The U.S. Army embraced Marshall as its quasi-official historian. The only real skeptics at the time were a few of the soldiers whom Marshall profiled in his histories, like “The Men of Company K.” Asked one old Company K sergeant, “Did the SOB think we clubbed the Germans to death?”

[quote]blondeguy wrote:
Hi guys,

Been a bit since I posted substantially. This thread is interesting and I haven’t read the Abernathy link yet, but I will be soon. First creds: Studied a variety of traditional martial arts for years, joined the Army shortly before Army combatives became a standard, went through the training program, got taught all the cool MMA and non-MMA stuff, read all of Matt Larsen’s explanations of the methods, got assigned to extra training through others in a variety of tactics and principles. Went to Iraq and survived. Was tasked with creating a training program that covered the totality of situations our boys and girls would encounter. So far, it’s worked.

As Beast pointed out, the H2H thing isn’t the focus of modern warfare, and won’t be for a while. Bombs, bullets, and mounted attack is the way to go. But H2H still comes up. A number of my close friends have used their H2H skills in combat to get out of otherwise non-survivable situations. Only one even remotely resembled the Army combatives program and even then, the winning technique was not a part of the program.

The modern Army program revolves around the pretext that the soldier has no weapons, and neither does the enemy. The goal is to provide soldiers with the warrior mindset that allows one to close with and engage the enemy, using a training method that allows competition without injury (need to maintain force readiness - injured soldiers can’t deploy). Interestingly, an original point was that soldiers were to be inspired to seek training outside of the program at regular dojos to cover what the program does not. At the higher levels (4&5) standard soldier weapons are incorporated as non-projectile implements.

The physicality and stress of the training DOES serve to assist soldiers in combat, regardless of the tactics. MCMAP does a better job standardizing this, though. The non-lethality of most tactics is also conducive to the LEO objectives assigned for most soldier missions these days. However, at all levels the lethal option MUST be provided in training for those circumstances where it becomes necessary. So does the incorporation of weaponry. But to teach soldiers to kill with their bare hands is a socially difficult proposition that requires a lot of mental training as well. On Killing points this out. The additional difficulty is the same as that encountered with LINES: by drilling folks in non-lethal options, dealing death CAN become a standard response. When this went awry in the 90s, the Corps re-evaluated its teachings and created MCMAP which now incorporates ethics with its punches and locks.

When the Army, specifically Larsen, wanted to develop the H2H skills of its Joes and Janes it turned to its Field Manuals and the mish-mash abilities of those in the trenches - most of whom had standard MA skills. These approaches had limited and varied success, so the Modern Army Combatives Program was developed and followed in line with the above.

Finding these methods to be limited in utility, individual units and soldiers have been looking to expand the training, but again there is a lot -physical and other- not covered in the dojo or the arena.

There’s a lot more to this, but I’ll leave it there for now. For those interested in the reality of interpersonal combat, I suggest reading Rory Miller’s Meditations on Violence.

-B
[/quote]

well said.