I’m 44 with a decent workout routine, gym at least EOD resistance and cardio. Been rundown for a long time. Had bloodwork done all “normal”. Test is 380. I’ve cranked up my workouts, heavier weights, lean diet, not great results. I have been doing reasearch, here at T-Nation mostly, for weeks. I’ve decided I want to try injections.
I want to lean my body and lose the last little bit of fat, build some muscle, and feel better. This is my plan. If you have advice for an aging body cycle please let me know. I tread lightly because I know how much you guys hate newbies on here, so I’ll take my punches.
14 week cycle
Wk 1-10 Test E 500mg/wk
WK 3-12 Tren Ace 200 mg/wk
WK 5-14 DECA 250 mg/wk
WK 1-17 Nolvadex 20mg /ED
PCT WK 16-17 Clomid 100mg ED
HCG 1000 iu/wk
Thank you guys!
Your test at 380 is on the low side. You may want to look in the T Replacement forums for some answers on that, perhaps you could increase your natural T and not go the AAS route.
Thanks Balla.
The intent, following some other suggestions, was this
HCG to prevent Testicular atrophy
Adex 1mg / wk (.25mg dose) AI
? Shouldn’t Nolva be used to prevent (not just treat) gyno?
Deca used to compliment the TEST and keep the androgens lower. Is my reasearch faulty and I am misunderstanding the correct use?
Tren to firm up the gains less rise in estrogen. Wrong thinking again?
I wnat to firm up lose fat, gain some muscle, whhile increasing energy strength and libido. Is that too much to ask? (just kidding)
PKNY to answer you…
I have been on Tribulus, TESTOGEL 10 g/day, and DHEA 25 for 8 weeks. No real result. I had the blood done agian and my Test is up to 460. No strength gain, no libido gain. Plus I worry about transferring the gel by contact to my kids hanging on me and to my wife.
Thanks
Just another note. After my doctor was not hearing my requests for TRT I went to another source. After all the bloodwork and physical stuff this is the protocol they came up with. But after all the reading and plus I want just a little more “leanness and gain” I kept reading on here for the last three weeks. Here is their protocol:
.Testosterone Cypionate
Protocol: one injection of 200mg / 1cc weekly IM (Intramuscular)
.Anastrazole .05MG capsules
Protocol: Take 1 capsule by mouth Twice Weekly Day 1 and Day 2 After Testosterone injection
.HCG
Protocol: One injection of 500 units (25 U on Insulin Syringe) Twice Weekly Sub Q
.B-12 Cyanacobalamin 1000mcg /ml
Protocol: One injection of 1 ml / 1000mcg per week Sub Q
Post Cycle Starts 2 weeks after your last testosterone injection
.HCG
Protocol: One injection of 1000 units (50 U on Insulin Syringe)Sub Q Daily for 10 days
.Clomiphene Citrate 51mg capsules
Protocol: One capsule by mouth Twice Daily for 15 days
Did you ever get a copy of your blood work ?
Just wondering where you are on E2? Lots of older men begin to favor estrogen over test, the tipping in that
balance can make it hard to lean up.
If you do a 12 week test 500 cycle, you will get nice results, 1 mg of adex will probably be
too much, if you aren’t going to get blood work during cycle you will have to learn to read the signs
of E2 that has crashed.
Can’t help but think that even after your PCT, your natural test level will drop further.
Perhaps after that point you could see your doc again and talk hrt, or maybe just get a new doc
at that point.
Good Luck.
[quote]oldguy45 wrote:
Thanks Balla.
The intent, following some other suggestions, was this
HCG to prevent Testicular atrophy
Adex 1mg / wk (.25mg dose) AI
? Shouldn’t Nolva be used to prevent (not just treat) gyno?
Deca used to compliment the TEST and keep the androgens lower. Is my reasearch faulty and I am misunderstanding the correct use?
Tren to firm up the gains less rise in estrogen. Wrong thinking again?
I wnat to firm up lose fat, gain some muscle, whhile increasing energy strength and libido. Is that too much to ask? (just kidding)
Thanks[/quote]
HCG is used on cycle to prevent testicular atrophy. The Adex (or whatever AI you choose) prevents excess estrogen conversion, which prevents gyno, bloating, etc. Nolva is a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) used post cycle to help bring natural test production back to its natural state.
VTBalla’s concern with using those three compound for your first cycle is that Tren and Deca are typically accompanied by harsh physical and mental side effects. The beginner steroid user typically won’t recognize the symptoms or be able to effectively counter / deal with them when they arise. This is why everyone recommends newbies stick to Test only for their first cycle, since the sides are relatively low and easily controlled. It gives the user time to understand how their body reacts to various compounds.
If you REALLY want to stack compounds, you might look into Test and Winstrol. You’ll get the strength and size gains from the Test, along with a nice strength increase from the Winstrol. However, the winstrol does a nice job of drying you out to give that nice lean look.
I’ve no experience with Tren or Deca, but I’d definitely try to get a couple of cycles under your belt before messing with these harsher compounds.
Thank you guys so much. In my blurr of reading I see where I went stray. I will heed the advice NO TREN. not for now at least.
I’ll stick to the Test only cycle as outlined above. No one else commented on using HCG @ 1000 iu /day for 10 days with Clomid for PCT. Are there any opinions on this? Does B12 with MIC really provide any boost? I’ve read that is is hype, but that is what Blanksberg Treatment Center advised.
I would like some experienced input. SO far I have been on TestoGel for 6 weeks and I wasn’t feeling any effects really but my Test is up from 460. I have also been taking DHEA 25- 50mg/ED and Tribulus. Thoughts
is the Estradiol and DHEA being high keeping me from getting the benefit of the free test?
Planned cycle, Do I need to modify? Should I continue the DHEA25 oral and Tribulus while on cycle?
TEST E 250mg- 2x week IM ( I have 5 weeks worth of TEST E on hand and have Test Cyp on order, is it ok to switch)
ARIMIDEX .5mg EOD Oral
HCG 250iu 2x week (day after TEST) SubQ
6-12
Add ANAVAR 50mg ED oral
13-14
OFF
15 Start PCT
15 NOLVADEX 40mg ED 7 days
16-19 NOLVADEX 20mg ED 14 days
20 NOLVADEX 10 mg 7 days
I did my first cycle at 45 years old. For that cycle, I did 12 weeks of supertest at 380 mg/wk and 200/mg a week of deca. Although I would have done it differently if I had known, I used Nolva during the cycle at 10 mg a day in case of gyno.
I then used Nolva for PCT only.
It ws a phenomenal cycle. I had great gains of which I kept 10 lbs and felt like a demi-god. I lost the remaining little handles on my waist as well. I also suffered no sides to speak of.
My suggestion is to start with a low dose and see how it goes. More isn’t always better.
What did the Deca do for you? Would you do Deca again on that same cycle? No AI? One last question sir, What did your blood look like before, during, after, assuming you had the bloodwork done.
Thanks
VTballa34 I am not ON TRT, officially as prescribed by a doc. I obtained the gel to see if it would have any effect on me. After doing it for a week I wanted to avoid the mess of daily gel baths, so I wanted to investigate injections. I inquired at the anti-aging sites, submitted my bloodwork to them and got a starter protocol outlined. I didn’t buy form them yet very expensive.
If I am doing injections, it would be nice too to achieve some nice gains, get some energy, wood, and just to feel better in general. I have been cautious and reading a lot here, so I can do it the right way. There is SO MUCH information to absorb, one has to ask the questions out loud to make sure they are interpreting the info correctly. I appreciate your experience and your input, just don’t be condescending. I’m sure you didn’t learn this stuff overnight, and neither can I.
My plan was, after the cycle, and recovery, go back to my doctor or to a new one and explain how much better I felt by doing TRT doses on my own, and see if he will prescribe the stuff to me. That way I won’t have to purchase elsewhere. I have the before and after bloodwork and plan on getting the on cycle bloodwork done also. I understand once the cycle is over, my test will crash, so I need to wait until it normalizes again, what ever normal is for me.
I am sure he will order another blood test (the reason for waiting some time after the cycle) But at least I can prove to him it worked for me. The PCT will kick start my recovery since I will NOT be doing the gel anymore. Even if he prescribes the Gel I will request self injections instead, it just seem easier.
The problem is that you are not running TRT, you are running a steroid cycle (2.5-5x the amount of TRT). You are all over the place with your posts, so it was fairly hard to keep them straight.
My recommendation would be to stop whatever you’re doing now and go find a doctor to treat you properly. If youa re going to self-administer TRT, then your dose should be 100-200 mg/week (in two divided doses) with AI and HCG, if necessary.
If you want to blast, increase this to 500 mg per week for 8-12 weeks, adjusting AI accordingly (no change to HCG). Do this 1-2x per year and you will be happy with your gains.
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
The problem is that you are not running TRT, you are running a steroid cycle (2.5-5x the amount of TRT). You are all over the place with your posts, so it was fairly hard to keep them straight.
My recommendation would be to stop whatever you’re doing now and go find a doctor to treat you properly. If youa re going to self-administer TRT, then your dose should be 100-200 mg/week (in two divided doses) with AI and HCG, if necessary.
If you want to blast, increase this to 500 mg per week for 8-12 weeks, adjusting AI accordingly (no change to HCG). Do this 1-2x per year and you will be happy with your gains.
[/quote]
You don’t do PCT on TRT.
If you blast 500 mg per week for 8-12 weeks you would just coast on the TRT 200mg per week and still make pretty good gains. But you gotta keep an eye on your lab work.
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
The problem is that you are not running TRT, you are running a steroid cycle (2.5-5x the amount of TRT). You are all over the place with your posts, so it was fairly hard to keep them straight.
My recommendation would be to stop whatever you’re doing now and go find a doctor to treat you properly. If youa re going to self-administer TRT, then your dose should be 100-200 mg/week (in two divided doses) with AI and HCG, if necessary.
If you want to blast, increase this to 500 mg per week for 8-12 weeks, adjusting AI accordingly (no change to HCG). Do this 1-2x per year and you will be happy with your gains.
[/quote]
You don’t do PCT on TRT.
If you blast 500 mg per week for 8-12 weeks you would just coast on the TRT 200mg per week and still make pretty good gains. But you gotta keep an eye on your lab work.
[/quote]
This is correct. I didn’t say it explicitly in my post, but I was hoping he would be smart enough to know that you don’t do PCT while on TRT.