OK, Let's Lift! And 1 and 2 and 1 and 2

BP work last night.

Chest felt really tight going into my workout last night. Worked up to a 275 single and a 305 single.
Then got 2 doubles with 275 after a couple more 275 singles. Pretty happy about that, it’s progress. Decided not to shoot for 315 this time.
For assistance I did 185x10 for 3 sets, then 165 and 155 for my last 2 sets (8 and 9 reps with these).

5 sets neutral grip pull ups to finish the workout. Didn’t feel like I needed any other work last night.

Chicken Casserole.

Won’t be squatting today. Doing it tomorrow, I’ve got a friend who wants to learn to squat better working out with me tomorrow. Should be fun :slight_smile: He’s a good athlete, has run at least a dozen marathons, including Boston, so he’s fairly competitive.

So just wondering, are you working on any particular program, or just trying to get your bench, deadlift, and ohp numbers up?

LoRez - I’m trying to build muscle as efficiently as I can. For me, a focus on these lifts, along with squat and back work, is the best way to gain muscle size AND strength. Both are necessary to progress to a better physique. I usually spend about 4 hours in the gym every week. If I devoted this time to ancillary movements that didn’t produce great strength and size development, I wouldn’t be where I am now. I’d be little. Bodybuilding, in any sense, is a multi-stage process. Once I’m satisfied with my size in general, I may feel more compelled to work on the ‘details’, or my exact proportions. At this point, though, that doesn’t make sense for me. I’m pretty happy so far with the way my body is developing. I have 17" arms pumped, about 16 1/2 unpumped, a 29" waist, and though I haven’t measured anything else recently, I feel like my lines look good. And I’m moderately lean. I don’t have a naturally ‘blocky’ physique to begin with, so I don’t have to fight that.

So to answer your question: bringing those numbers up are both an end and a means. They’re an end because my raw numbers in these lifts do matter to me. I want to be stronger than everyone around me. It’s in my competitive nature I guess. But they’re also a means to a more aesthetic body. I want to look good (who doesn’t), and in MY OWN EXPERIENCE, this type of lifting has produced great results for me.

One more thing to mention to you LoRez - It looks like we’re the same age. When I graduated high school, I weighed 125 lbs. My biggest challenge was and has always been eating enough. My recent pictures are essentially the highest bodyfat I’ve ever had. So as a little dude yourself, I want to remind you that, depending on your attitude towards food, this may be one of your biggest challenges as well. Anyway, I’m open to any more questions you may have!

Actually one more thing that I wanted to mention, since you brought it up in your other thread: you mentioned smaller traps were part of an ideal physique. I’ve found in my training that without well developed traps, I’m more prone to chest and shoulder tearing/injuries. I would advise that injury prevention can be one of the most important facets of success. Be mindful of that, because while you’re shooting for these ideal proportions, it may be possible that they aren’t so ideal for your body. Always listen to your body’s pains, and respond to them accordingly.

Thanks for the explanation.

It feels like there’s still a lot of gaps in the information out there. I see where I am now, and I have a good idea of where I want to be, but I don’t know enough to really connect A to B. A lot of the beginner programs are great, well laid out, and serve to get you from nothing to a certain basic level of strength and size. It’s the “what then?” that I’m iffy on.

And I know I’m not at that point yet, but I think an attempt to piece together a rough long-term plan for myself is acceptable. For me it really is more about vanity than anything… but it took me awhile to realize that. It’s not even about the women; I’m pretty happy with my hot, Asian, pediatrician girlfriend. I’m just tired of being so skinny/lanky/scrawny, and something about that mid-century bodybuilding look screams health, vitality, manliness, respect. It’s just a look, but there’s something about it that I want for myself.

I honestly don’t really have any need for the strength. I know that almost sounds sacrilegious.

With respect to injuries, one of the things I picked up in my research is that a lot of injuries occur from neglecting certain things early on: bad stretching techniques, bad movement choices, even simply not training stabilizers well enough. I want to avoid making as many of those mistakes as possible. Thanks for the pointer regarding your experience with trap development and chest/shoulder injuries. I’ll see if I run into the same thing myself.

It’s the same mistake-aversion as for why I started that “Classic Physique Training” thread… if you’re training for that look, are there certain things to beware of, even as a beginner? I just didn’t know, and there were a few warnings against over developing obliques and traps that I’d read.

In terms of eating, it’s something I’ve struggled with until I started adding serious amounts of milk to my diet. I work a desk job, and I’m relatively sedentary at home, but I lose weight on a 2500 calorie diet. I know the brain uses a lot of energy (I write software), but the math still doesn’t seem to add up.

“Squats and milk”, with its rapid mass gaining promise seemed like a good place to start over, after I stalled out on Starting Strength after 6 weeks due to an unrelated injury last Fall. I used to run (competitively), so hard training isn’t foreign to me, I’m just new-ish to weight training.

I’m still not sure if my calories are quite enough, but since I’ve started, it has been over 2lbs bodyweight gain per week, and from what I understand, that’s pretty reasonable. CT’s article against “dirty bulking” has me thinking that maybe I shouldn’t push the calories any more than what I’m already doing, as long as the protein intake is adequate.

Few things to say about all that:
You DO need the strength, it’s required to get the SIZE. Your goals for looks aren’t going to happen without getting MUCH stronger. Look at the numbers that the guys you idolize could put up in the gym, and that should give you an indication of what you need to achieve in the gym.

You’re over thinking all this. I know this has been mentioned before, but the answer to your ‘what then?’ is going to be dependent on what you achieve FIRST. Areas that need to be refined AFTER you add some serious muscle should be addressed in the future. They can’t be predicted before you start. That’s your fundamental problem here. You’re SO far off from your goals, you’re asking the wrong questions.

I consider a long term plan something like a 5 year plan. You won’t reach your goals in less than that. You can easily spend the next 5 years building your base.

You shouldn’t be worried about ‘over developing’ anything. Because you won’t. It’s like the girls who don’t want to lift weights because they’re worried about getting bulky. Those things don’t happen unless you don’t want them to. If you don’t want big traps, don’t get big traps. Fucking simple.

I’m all about milk myself, I drink a lot of it (about 2/3 gallon per day). Definitely works for skinny guys, it’s cheap and effective.

One last thing. Success in the gym is determined by a love of the process. You’re going to be much more successful if you fall in love with lifting than if you stay so concerned about the specific results. It’s good to have long term goals, but if you don’t enjoy getting there, you won’t make it.

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Few things to say about all that:
You DO need the strength, it’s required to get the SIZE. Your goals for looks aren’t going to happen without getting MUCH stronger. Look at the numbers that the guys you idolize could put up in the gym, and that should give you an indication of what you need to achieve in the gym.[/quote]

Yeah, I understand that. I was more saying that I’m not doing this because I want to be stronger. But I know it’s a requirement to even reach the aesthetic goals.

I was actually thinking 7 to 10 years. In a best case scenario it’ll probably take 18 months just to hit about 190 with good body composition. Realistically, probably more like 2 to 2.5 years. And that’s really just the baseline.

I’m guessing you haven’t read some of the “warnings” against overdeveloping obliques from that time period… usually I gloss over stuff like that, but something about the tone made me pay attention. Anyway, yolo84 also told me that was entirely myth; that even if you intentionally train obliques every single workout, you’re still not going to get enough hypertrophy to ruin any lines. So, my concerns are allayed.

Thanks for the advice.

Oh, also if I do end up taking a video of the squats, I’ll just throw that in my training log. In a lot of ways, I’m just not sure what it’s going to take to prop up my phone to get a decent video… that’s the real source of hesitance.

Yea I always get someone else to record me.

I’m saying you won’t overdevelop anything because you’re not going to ‘accidentally’ train any given muscle group.

I’ve been lifting for awhile now, so take it from me, or anyone else who has had success in lifting. A 7 to 10 year plan is unreasonable to set as a true beginner. It just plain doesn’t work that way. You have no idea what’s going to happen in your life and in the gym in that time period. Goals for that time period make sense to set now, but plans? No way. There will be so much tweaking you’ll have to do in your workout programming to get the desired results, that in the end, your ‘plan’ will look nothing like what you started with, if you do take this stuff seriously. You have no idea right now what set and rep schemes, what exercises, etc will be effective for YOU to grow in the long term. You have NO IDEA what muscles will grow the fastest. You don’t know anything about the way YOUR body grows. Everyone is different. You will have to go through zillions of programs/modifications to truly find the best workouts for you. Otherwise you will absolutely stagnate in your training.

ACTUAL WORKOUT UP IN HERE!!

Sunday: Squats (with a friend)

Was teaching this day as well as lifting. Working sets of squats- worked up to 275 for 3, then 2 singles at 315, short break between these 2 reps. Then 185 for 5 sets of 10, most reps cut just short at the top to keep tension. Made sure I hit EVERY squat deep.

My friend was very naturally inclined towards squats. His form was fucking great, just needs to focus on keeping heels down. Better shoes would help him. First time I’ve taught someone who had no problem hitting depth every time. He said his glutes hurt the most today, followed by hamstrings, and lower back a bit. quads the least. So he’s naturally pushing with his strongest leverages. Happy times.

Smoked chicken, roasted vegetables, mashed potatoes, salad. crazy good.

Wanted to update this week:
This is a deload week for me, I’ve only actually made it to the gym once, should be able to lift 2 more days this week. I’ve had a 2 year old at my house for the last 7 days (leaves tomorrow). Her dad was supposed to be around until Tuesday, with her mother picking her up from my house wednesday. Instead, her dad left her with my wife and I Sunday, and her Mom picks her up tomorrow (Friday). Fun times. At least she’s cute.

DOUBLE UPDATE!!!

Yesterday: So, like I said, this has been a deload week, but I decided to push it a bit and go for Deadlift reps at 315. Got 16 reps, with more left in the tank. Was told by a ‘trainer’ in khakis I was being too loud (wasn’t even letting go of the weight). Left gym angry.

Today: I played golf today. Was having a good time until I drove the cart under a tree with low limbs. A limb hit me in the jaw so hard that my first though was that I broke it, and I ended up getting stitches this afternoon. Had to end my round with 3 holes left. Was 7 over at the time.

How was that set of 100 squats?

so exhausting I totally forgot to log it, and I also forgot how much weight I did, so I can’t talk about it but I definitely did it and it was probably in the 500’s just for fun.

Went to the Texas Rangers game last night. Anyone else see this game? 5 1/2 hours, including rain delay. Including driving time there and back, this ended up being an 8 hour commitment for me. Crazy. At least we won.

Break’s over, back to lifting!

So I read some thread here about OHP behind the back with a snatch grip, so I figured I’d give it a shot. Worked up to 3 reps at 115, couldn’t get 135 off the shoulders. So I guess my 1rm would be somewhere in between. Crazy lift, enjoyed it.

After that I figured the work I did on that was enough of a warm up, so after I missed 135 behind the back, I hit 5 reps standard-style. Then I hit 8 1/2 reps at 155 (PR I think?)
Accessory work: 5x10 behind the back snatch grip presses with 65lbs. Was tough even at that weight. Hoping this will help my flexibility, I don’t think I have great shoulder flexibility in that direction.

100lb DB rows, 20 reps, 12 reps, 10 reps.
80lb bicep curls, 3x10.
tricep machine for 3 sets of reps (10 each set).

EDIT: Klokov presses. that’s what they’re called.

Deadlift yesterday:
Warmup with some light snatches.
I decided to do some sumo work. I’ve never lifted heavy with sumo (not even sure I had even done 3 plates, would have to look back over logs), so I decided to give it a go last night, to see how it stacked up to my conventional deadlift.
5 reps at 315, 3 reps at 365, 1 rep at 415, 1 rep at 435, and got 455 about halfway up.
So I would say, without having practiced this lift before, it stacks up fairly well. I nearly hit my recent PR AFTER I’d done just 20lbs less. If I had skipped the 435, I doubt I would have missed 455. This convinced me that I should practice this style on a regular basis, as it could definitely be an advantage in competition.

This is all I did last night, kept the session short since I was practicing a new movement.

Burger and Jalapeno cream soup, was good.

BP last night:

Felt super achy between chest and delts from the start. I’ve actually been feeling that since the Klokov presses. Didn’t affect performance though, just needed to warm up. Got 275 a few times, tried 315 twice, missed it both times of course. Did the rest of my work at 225 and 245.
Accessory: Incline dumbbells - 70’s x10, 85’s x6, 75’s x7, 70’s x7.
Pullups: Weighted wide grip x10 w/30lbs extra for sets 1 and 2, next 3 sets were unweighted, 2 with narrow grip.
That was enough.

Fish and couscous.

Haven’t made a log post in a about 10 days, mostly because I haven’t been in the gym much. I think I had 1 or 2 squat sessions, then pressing on Monday and Deadlift last night.

On Monday, I did mostly pressing at 135 for a bunch of sets. I warmed up with snatches, got 135 without much of an issue, but couldn’t get 155. I can’t get down into a squat, I’m really just doing power snatches. In fact, I can’t do an overhead squat with just the bar. I would really like to learn this. I think shoulder flexibility is a big issue, I’m mostly falling forward. Also did pullups super setted with meadows rows.

Tuesday I deadlifted. I pulled up to 405 for 3 to warm up, then tried 495 just for fun. Couldn’t get it off the ground. Dropped to 405, did some more singles, and used a mixed grip for the first time since I was about 20. I liked it, didn’t feel uncomfortable, so I tried 455 (my recent PR). When I hit 455 a few weeks ago, I dropped the bar as soon as I locked it (not even sure I really locked.) This time, I locked it, and held it locked for about 10 seconds. What a difference. Looks like a mixed grip will keep my grip from being a limiting factor for awhile.

Pulled pork sandwich for dinner. Really really good.

variety of lifts last night.

I started with leg curls last night, based on the advice of jkcsrab (sp?). He said he does these before squatting, helps loosen him up. I must be on a different page, I just cramped like crazy instead. I’ll try it again next time, with more hydration.

After uncramping, I decided to do a few things from the Wendler article yesterday. Practiced power cleans. did 135x5 a few sets, then 155 for a few, 185 for some singles then 195, then 205 for about 8 singles.

Squats: warmed up to a coupe doubles at 275, wasn’t feeling great, so I quit.

From Wendler: I don’t have kettlebell access, so I did 5lb dumbbell swings, set of 100 with each arm.

Good mornings, 4 or 5 sets, 8ish reps each set.