With the recent bailout I would not expect lower prices. The whole point of it was to keep prices from sinking. I have a feeling lixy will be around for a while.
There will be more inflation and prices will rise yet again.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
With the recent bailout I would not expect lower prices. The whole point of it was to keep prices from sinking. I have a feeling lixy will be around for a while.
There will be more inflation and prices will rise yet again.[/quote]
Commodity prices have been in a free fall for the last week. Weaker global economy means less demand. Less demand means lower prices.
Inflation due to the credit crunch is going to have to be astronomical to affect the commodity prices.
Oil prices doubled over the last year, and we saw less than 10% inflation.
Try again.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Oil prices doubled over the last year, and we saw less than 10% inflation.
Try again. [/quote]
Again you show your ignorance of what inflation is. Inflation is a measure of the money supply and not prices. The $700 bailout and subsequent other monies pumped in by the Fed will contribute to price increases. If this money is used to increase productive means – hope that it is – you can bet oil prices will rise.
The prices rise because there is more demand than supply. More money means more demand. That is economics 101.
This bailout only happened to keep prices artificially high so that the power elite do not go broke. The stock market will “recover” and everyone will go on like nothing happened until more malinvestment happens due to this massive bailout.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Oil prices doubled over the last year, and we saw less than 10% inflation.
Try again.
Again you show your ignorance of what inflation is. Inflation is a measure of the money supply and not prices. The $700 bailout and subsequent other monies pumped in by the Fed will contribute to price increases. If this money is used to increase productive means – hope that it is – you can bet oil prices will rise. The prices rise because there is more demand than supply. More money means more demand. That is economics 101.
This bailout only happened to keep prices artificially high so that the power elite do not go broke. The stock market will “recover” and everyone will go on like nothing happened until more malinvestment happens due to this massive bailout.[/quote]
It’s a measure of price increase. Sorry to disappoint. Let’s just go back to the late 70’s - early 80’s to show just how utterly wrong you are.
In the 70’s, there was double digit inflation. Reagan took office, and according to most everyone, we had to start printing more money to keep up with Regan’s spending increases and tax cuts. But inflation went down.
You see, I actually live in real life. You live between the pages of a book. You prove it every time you come out with answers like the shit you just posted.
You pussed out on the farm discussion because of your utter stupidity of anything remotely resembling real life. Your contribution to real life issues is worthless. GO start a thread on your theories. You sound much smarter when you are making shit up than you do when you are trying to engage in real life.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
It’s a measure of price increase.
[/quote]
Since not all prices rise at the same time nor at the same rate how does one measure inflation via price increases? How can there be only one number (CPI) to measure it? This is not rhetorical question. Really answer it or get lost. Do not argue about measurement with a person who makes measurements for a living.
You’re quite funny when you pull your internet tough-guy routine. I bet in real life you are really tough too…
wanker!
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
It’s a measure of price increase.
Since not all prices rise at the same time nor at the same rate how does one measure inflation via price increases? How can there be only one number (CPI) to measure it? This is not rhetorical question. Really answer it or get lost. Do not argue about measurement with a person who makes measurements for a living.
You’re quite funny when you pull your internet tough-guy routine. I bet in real life you are really tough too…
wanker![/quote]
You are a fucking idiot. How is me calling attention to that fact being a tough guy?
What? Your books don’t talk back to you?
Who the ever said that all prices for all goods and services rise and fall equally?
You make measurements? Kinda like you “make” definitions?
Argue with yourself.
A simple google search proves you wrong. Pay particular attention to the 7th, 8th, and 9th words in the first sentence.
Now go make some new definitions, or make some more measurements.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
It’s a measure of price increase.
Since not all prices rise at the same time nor at the same rate how does one measure inflation via price increases? How can there be only one number (CPI) to measure it? This is not rhetorical question. Really answer it or get lost. Do not argue about measurement with a person who makes measurements for a living.
You’re quite funny when you pull your internet tough-guy routine. I bet in real life you are really tough too…
wanker!
You are a fucking idiot. How is me calling attention to that fact being a tough guy?
What? Your books don’t talk back to you?
Who the ever said that all prices for all goods and services rise and fall equally?
You make measurements? Kinda like you “make” definitions?
Argue with yourself.
A simple google search proves you wrong. Pay particular attention to the 7th, 8th, and 9th words in the first sentence.
Now go make some new definitions, or make some more measurements.
[/quote]My question is legitimate. Answer it or admit defeat yet again.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
It’s a measure of price increase.
Since not all prices rise at the same time nor at the same rate how does one measure inflation via price increases? How can there be only one number (CPI) to measure it? This is not rhetorical question. Really answer it or get lost. Do not argue about measurement with a person who makes measurements for a living.
You’re quite funny when you pull your internet tough-guy routine. I bet in real life you are really tough too…
wanker!
You are a fucking idiot. How is me calling attention to that fact being a tough guy?
What? Your books don’t talk back to you?
Who the ever said that all prices for all goods and services rise and fall equally?
You make measurements? Kinda like you “make” definitions?
Argue with yourself.
A simple google search proves you wrong. Pay particular attention to the 7th, 8th, and 9th words in the first sentence.
Now go make some new definitions, or make some more measurements.
[/quote]
How can inflation be measured by price increases? Your link does not even address that.
I am right and you are wrong…again.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
How can inflation be measured by price increases? Your link does not even address that.
I am right and you are wrong…again.[/quote]
You need an explanation on how inflation can be measured by the increase in a price?
Really?
Really?
You prove my opinion of you every fucking time you post.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
How can inflation be measured by price increases? Your link does not even address that.
I am right and you are wrong…again.
You need an explanation on how inflation can be measured by the increase in a price?
Really?
Really?
You prove my opinion of you every fucking time you post.
[/quote]
Yes, I need an explanation because it does not seem possible. If it is then you should have no problem with and explanation. But I suspect you are just copying and pasting someone else’s opinion which you can’t even figure out on your own is flawed.
Prices cannot measure inflation. Price is price, inflation is the money supply.
CPI and PPI cannot measure anything but relative price increase in certain goods and services. It is not a measure of the money supply. They do not even measure all prices – therefore they are meaningless.
You can keep pretending you know what you are talking about but you can’t even offer a decent defense of your claim. Whatever…
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
How can inflation be measured by price increases? Your link does not even address that.
I am right and you are wrong…again.
You need an explanation on how inflation can be measured by the increase in a price?
Really?
Really?
You prove my opinion of you every fucking time you post.
Yes, I need an explanation because it does not seem possible. If it is then you should have no problem with and explanation. But I suspect you are just copying and pasting someone else’s opinion which you can’t even figure out on your own is flawed.
Prices cannot measure inflation. Price is price, inflation is the money supply.
CPI and PPI cannot measure anything but relative price increase in certain goods and services. It is not a measure of the money supply. They do not even measure all prices – therefore they are meaningless.
You can keep pretending you know what you are talking about but you can’t even offer a decent defense of your claim. Whatever…[/quote]
Sorry, sparky. I don’t CandP.
Just because you say the CPI is meaningless does not make it true.
According to your ramblings, there could be inflation without an increase in prices.
If the prices rise, there is inflation. Inflation can be caused by many factors.
-
Price of money
-
Demand
-
Supply.
Those are the three easiest. We saw it just the other day with gasoline prices. Demand stays static, and supply craters - guess what? You have $4.75 gas. While at the same time, falling demand and increased supply will give you $3.12 gasoline which it was selling for yesterday.
You need to put down the books, and go think about it. Perhaps even participate in real life instead of reading so many books.
I’ll bet you are a fucking hoot at parties.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
How can inflation be measured by price increases? Your link does not even address that.
I am right and you are wrong…again.
You need an explanation on how inflation can be measured by the increase in a price?
Really?
Really?
You prove my opinion of you every fucking time you post.
Yes, I need an explanation because it does not seem possible. If it is then you should have no problem with and explanation. But I suspect you are just copying and pasting someone else’s opinion which you can’t even figure out on your own is flawed.
Prices cannot measure inflation. Price is price, inflation is the money supply.
CPI and PPI cannot measure anything but relative price increase in certain goods and services. It is not a measure of the money supply. They do not even measure all prices – therefore they are meaningless.
You can keep pretending you know what you are talking about but you can’t even offer a decent defense of your claim. Whatever…
Sorry, sparky. I don’t CandP.
Just because you say the CPI is meaningless does not make it true.
According to your ramblings, there could be inflation without an increase in prices.
If the prices rise, there is inflation. Inflation can be caused by many factors.
[/quote]
So then if prices rise differently does one measurement make sense? Shouldn’t every good and service have its own measure?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
How can inflation be measured by price increases? Your link does not even address that.
I am right and you are wrong…again.
You need an explanation on how inflation can be measured by the increase in a price?
Really?
Really?
You prove my opinion of you every fucking time you post.
Yes, I need an explanation because it does not seem possible. If it is then you should have no problem with and explanation. But I suspect you are just copying and pasting someone else’s opinion which you can’t even figure out on your own is flawed.
Prices cannot measure inflation. Price is price, inflation is the money supply.
CPI and PPI cannot measure anything but relative price increase in certain goods and services. It is not a measure of the money supply. They do not even measure all prices – therefore they are meaningless.
You can keep pretending you know what you are talking about but you can’t even offer a decent defense of your claim. Whatever…
Sorry, sparky. I don’t CandP.
Just because you say the CPI is meaningless does not make it true.
According to your ramblings, there could be inflation without an increase in prices.
If the prices rise, there is inflation. Inflation can be caused by many factors.
So then if prices rise differently does one measurement make sense? Shouldn’t every good and service have its own measure?[/quote]
Inflation is an increase in prices or a decrease in purchasing power. I can’t think of something that would cause inflation other than an increase in money supply or credit (same as money supply i guess).
Unless there were a shortage of all goods and services? I am assuming “prices” are measured in some sort of average or aggregate. One comodity going up, ie short supply, wouldn’t cause inflation.
I am not entirely sure what you guys are arguing about. Inflation is cause by changes in money supply or credit. It is measured in rising prices.
What I have been trying to wrap my head around is what would have happened (or may still happen) if we wouldn’t have had a bailout. Would restricted credit have caused deflation?
This certainly would not have been good for a gov’t that owes trillions. With that kind of debt they would be finding any excuse for inflation. I guess depends on the currency they owe in and if there are inflation causes built into the debt. Something to think about. Maybe this is a gov’t bailout after all.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
I am not entirely sure what you guys are arguing about. Inflation is cause by changes in money supply or credit. It is measured in rising prices.
[/quote]
Mathematically it is impossible to measure inflation in terms of prices. In order to do this one needs an separate index for every good and service. Inflation can only be measured in terms of the amount of money presently in the system (MZM).
It is possible for prices to come down with an increase of the money supply if productive means are increased in one sector and demand doesn’t follow. Home prices are one example that I can think of right now.
It makes no sense to say inflation was 10% if the price of homes goes down 25%. In essence the CPI and PPI are meaningless.
LOL.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
So then if prices rise differently does one measurement make sense? Shouldn’t every good and service have its own measure?[/quote]
Every industry does have its own measure. But CPI simplifies all those measures into a single number.
I don’t think anyone is really pinning everything on the CPI. It’s not perfect, but it is about the best we have in terms of providing an estimate of the economic weather.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
Unless there were a shortage of all goods and services? I am assuming “prices” are measured in some sort of average or aggregate. One comodity going up, ie short supply, wouldn’t cause inflation.
[/quote]
You only have to look as far as the sharp increase in oil prices to see the effects of one commodity on the rest of the economy.
If you own a business, you are all too aware of the effect on skyrocketing fuel cost on your bottom line.
It is much worse for farmers.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
What I have been trying to wrap my head around is what would have happened (or may still happen) if we wouldn’t have had a bailout. Would restricted credit have caused deflation?
[/quote]
The bailout is an attempt to fix prices higher than consumers want them to be. The collapse only happens because consumers cannot afford stuff. Increasing the supply of money does not change that fact except for in the certain industries that will see money first. In this case it is evident the bailout is directed at bank stock prices.
Restricted credit is deflation. It is a contraction of the money supply. A decrease in money will decrease demand and prices will drop. This is a perfectly natural occurrence in a free and unhampered market and is usually very painless because it can only be caused by hoarding – as apposed to saving and investing. The reason why it is so disastrous in our current market is because failures are continually propped up until the consuming public loses its confidence.
I don’t care how much money is pumped into the system it will not have any effect one way or another until people start borrowing again. The average person will not be taking on any more debt which is the direction the market needs to swing. The extent of the effect will depend on how badly in debt the average person really is compared to his income. Really high deflation will cause massive unemployment.
Really though this is a pickle for our government because they are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Personally, I think we should just pay the piper and get it over with. Of course that depends on how much government will stand in the way with “New Deal” type policies that it can actually happen.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Unless there were a shortage of all goods and services? I am assuming “prices” are measured in some sort of average or aggregate. One comodity going up, ie short supply, wouldn’t cause inflation.
You only have to look as far as the sharp increase in oil prices to see the effects of one commodity on the rest of the economy.
If you own a business, you are all too aware of the effect on skyrocketing fuel cost on your bottom line.
It is much worse for farmers. [/quote]
But is this inflation in the traditional sense? Is it reported as such? I am not challenging, I’m asking.
To me this is all really semantics. I read quite a bit on economics and I have never heard inflation referred to as anything but what I posted a few posts up. Are both of you refering to inflation in classical terms and what is measured and reported on? Or are we arguing that inflation is different that what most people understand it to be?
[quote]rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
So then if prices rise differently does one measurement make sense? Shouldn’t every good and service have its own measure?
Every industry does have its own measure. But CPI simplifies all those measures into a single number.
I don’t think anyone is really pinning everything on the CPI. It’s not perfect, but it is about the best we have in terms of providing an estimate of the economic weather.
[/quote]
I am afraid the CPI and other such industry standards are merely to pull the wool over people’s eyes so that no one will know the real extent of inflation. It is a protective measure to keep the dollar stable in terms of other currencies. You can call that a conspiracy if you like.