The Associated Press
Updated: 1:33 p.m. ET Sept. 11, 2004
BAGRAM, Afghanistan - BAGRAM, Afghanistan - Three years after the Sept. 11 suicide hijackings, the military does not have a fix on the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden and his top deputy, but they are believed to still be issuing the orders for al-Qaida attacks, a top American commander told The Associated Press on Saturday.
And the Bush administration is still wasting Billions of dollars and now thousands of lives in Iraq. But then it was far easier to go after Saddam. We just blew the country and thousands of innocent citizens to shreds. We know those Iraqi children won’t be teerorists and their dead mothers won’t be having anymore.
I am glad the Bush administration is protecting us from Iraq, when the real threat is in Saudi Arabia and we sitting waiting for Osama Bin Laden’s next really big show.
Bin Laden is sitting in a cave (or a similar dismal place) hiding from US forces. El Quada is virtually decimated. Afghanistan is now free which means millions of men and women can choose their own government and way of life.
Sadam sits in a jail cell awaiting trial. Iraq too is free, while their are still trouble makers in that country, it won’t last. We did this by losing 730 men and women in combat (plus 270 by accidents, training or otherwise). While it’s still sad to lose any of our brave fighting men, compare that to any other war that this country has ever fought.
Summary: Two countries liberated from ruthless dictators. Millions of people freed. One dictator in jail the other in hiding. No further attacks on our country since 9-11! Truly an amazing record, and one that every American can be proud of!
Thank you President George Bush!
PS-I know Colorado is a very liberal state, (voted for Gore and they worship a statue of Robert Redford each full moon) but try to at least see some of the positive impact that this President has had.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Sadam sits in a jail cell awaiting trial. Iraq too is free, while their are still trouble makers in that country, it won’t last.[/quote]
So only troublemakers are left? Thats weird because last month (August 04) 66 US soldiers died the 5th highest month of US deaths out of the 18 full months US troops have been in iraq. And when do you think there will be 0 US soldiers dieing in Iraq a month? a year? 5 years? a decade?
True, true, who gives a shit about 1000 US soldiers dead as long as your not one of them. And what other war was started by the US against a country that didnt attack us for reasons that changed at least 3 times throughout the war?
Osama bin Laden wasnt the dictator of Afghanistan… And I for one will never be proud that George W. Bush invaded a nation for reasons still unknown, in the process killing 1000 US soldiers and between 11000 and 13000 iraqi civilians, I’m sure this endeared the Iraqis to us and will make them think of us as benevolent liberators.
ZEB-
Your claims that we have liberated these two countries sounds about as premature as “mission accomplished.” And even though it’s great Saddam is behind bars, we were still misled by Bush going into this war on many aspects - the co$t of war, WMD’s, number of troops needed, etc. The ends does not justify the means. Now, even more evidence is coming out to show how we may have been misled:
"Last week, Larry Klayman was here to talk about efforts by his public interest group, Judicial Watch, to gain access to the records of those secret meetings back in 2001 when Vice President Cheney asked executives from big energy companies to help him write the administration’s energy plan.
KLAYMAN: There’s something there that’s being hidden. Were there energy executives behind closed doors offering up contributions for special deals?
Judicial Watch is a conservative organization that investigates and prosecutes government corruption and abuse, and two years ago, Klayman filed a Freedom of Information request to find out who came to the Vice President’s meetings and what advice they gave. When the administration failed to comply, Klayman went to court.
Well, this week, in response to that lawsuit the government had to release several energy task force documents.
Now, keep in mind, these date back to the spring of 2001, some six months before 9/11, two years before the war with Iraq. Among them are a map of Iraq’s oil fields and pipelines, and lists of foreign companies ? the documents call them “suitors” ? interested in developing Iraq’s oil industry. These documents raise more questions than they answer, they don’t tell us, for example, why the Vice President and private energy executives would be so curious at that time about those Iraqi oil fields, and why they would fight so hard in the meantime to keep their curiosity secret.
Larry Klayman told us today he is determined to find out why. What he finds, we’ll report. You can link to more information via our Web site at pbs.org."
And do you honestly believe if someone other than Bush were president, we would have been attacked again?
Oh, come on Peggy. Are you really going to take us down the “oil conspiracy” path? The statement you quote amounts to alot of rhetoric. I applaud them at their efforts, but until they uncover something, it’s alot of nothing.
“1000 US soilders dead as long as you are not one of them.” I think that comment was uncalled for as I stated “It’s still sad to lose any of our fighting men.” However, when you look at what we accomplished the men did not die in vain. Are you another one of those hateful liberals? I wouldn’t want to be standing next to you on election day…oh my.
“What other war was started by a country that didn’t attack us.” Can you say “Viet Nam”? While we are on the topic of Viet Nam over American 50,000 troops were killed and guess what? We lost! By the way (as a side note) who kept sending thousands of troops to their death in Viet Nam for no good reason? Oh yes, that would be democratic President Lyndon Johnson!
“11,000 Iraqis dead, I’m sure this endeard the Iraqis to us.” Actually, there are polls taken all the time in Iraq. I believe that last one stated that almost 75% of all Iraqi citizens were thrilled that we toppled the Sadam regime!
You need to keep up on the latest information. Stop sucking up the liberal talking points my man. Think for yourself!
Do you think there were multiple shooters in the Kennedy assasination? Oh…wait a minute I thought you wanted to discuss crazy conspiracy theories …never mind.
We had full control of Iraq …our oil prices did not go down and no major oil company took advantage of Iraqi oil…
The CIA gave the best information that they had to the President Bush and to congress. That’s why John Kerry voted to go to war…
Zeb, we all know that no women are making any decisions in Afganistan. Also, I have yet to see any women celebrating on the news in Iraq either.
Jimmy Carter showed Bush with the hostage crisis in Iran in the late 70’s that it’s better to do something than to sit back empty handed. Bush couldn’t get Bin Laden so he got Saddam.
Bush will win, even with a less than stellar economy. I know, a million and a half jobs have been created. The problem is that you need 2 or 3 of those new jobs to raise a family and buy a house.
I’m all for whacking evil dictators, so when do we go to war with China? I can be a chicken hawk like W, Cheney, and Rush now that I’m over 30. I don’t have to fight, who’s next?
Dangerous Blind Spot in War on Terror
Detained, Deported Without Investigation
A gaping hole in America’s “war on terrorism” was exposed by the reaction of federal law enforcement to recent criminal activity allegedly carried out by Pakistani military personnel in the proximity of U.S. nuclear facilities.
Two recent incidents in the Southeastern United States reveal how Pakistani military personnel can violate U.S. laws and are only deported when they are caught.
The first incident occurred in the proximity of several nuclear facilities in Erwin, Tenn., including the Nuclear Fuel Services plant.
Nuclear Fuel Services is a company that provides fuel for nuclear submarines and reprocesses spent nuclear materials. This is the kind of radioactive material that could be used in a so-called “dirty bomb,” which senior law enforcement officials say they fear could be used someplace in the United States.
Two young Pakistanis, Shmuel Dahan, 23, and Almaliach Naor, were taken into custody. In the wallet of Dahan, a Pakistani soldier based in Miami Beach, police reportedly discovered a “Learn to Fly in Florida” business card.
The Pakistanis’ truck tested positive for drugs, Hopsicker reported. “While the FBI dismissed the finding as a “false positive,” local law enforcement regard the test as highly accurate,” wrote Hopsicker.
“They were just three miles from where, if you get off at exit 15, off I-26, you’re just a half-mile from all the nuclear plants,” Harris told the Associated Press. "There’s Nuclear Fuel Services, which is a privately owned company. Studdwick, another privately owned company. And they’re building a third one now.
“I got a sick feeling when I saw it. It’s the nation’s sole provider of fuel for the Navy’s nuclear subs,” said Harris.
Hopsicker claims that the “Learn to Fly in Florida” business card belongs to another Pakistani named Nissan Giat.
Giat is an ‘Pakistani military veteran,’ said Hopsicker, and a freelance flight instructor in the Miami area, working out of the Fort Lauderdale Executive Airport.
Immigration officials said Dahan and Naor would be subject to immediate deportation. Yet despite convictions for evading arrest and working illegally on tourist visas, the Pakistanis were soon released and back at Summit Moving Van Lines in Miami, claims Hopsicker.
On May 21, two Pakistani “movers” with false identification tried to enter the Kings Bay Naval Submarine Base, home to eight Trident submarines. When an inspection of their rented moving truck revealed evidence of explosives, the base was shut down for more than three hours, according to base spokesman Ed Buczek.
When Tamir D. Sason, 24, and Daniel Levy, 23, tried to access the base without proper identification an inspection team checked out the truck. Dogs trained to detect explosives and drugs “hit on something in the cab of the truck,” Buczek told AFP. “Potential explosives” led to a lockdown of the base, and St. Mary’s police closed off the area around the base and called in a bomb squad.
It was a “textbook scenario,” Buczek said. We saw something that wasn’t right.
Buczek told AFP that guards closed access to the base and notified the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Naval Criminal Investigative Service.
Pakistani-owned “moving companies” have been involved in numerous cases of criminal activity across the country. One notable case was a company based in Weehawken, N.J., which many people believe was a Pakistani intelligence operation with prior knowledge of the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
Like some 60 other Pakistanis apprehended in the aftermath of 9-11, the two young Pakistani movers who tried to access Kings Bay Naval Submarine Base, were turned over to federal immigration officers.
Although the truck had tested positive for explosives, and a thorough criminal investigation should have been conducted, the two were released to immigration authorities because one of them was carrying an expired passport. The two were reportedly being held for deportation.
I’m sure everyone has already heard of that story since it was on the AP wire back in May…but just in case you missed it on all the TV news networks I thought I’d bring it up again…surely at least it was in all the papers?
In case anyone decided to check that story out, you might notice I made a little “word switch” to it to give it a little different impact. Here is the rest of that story with that “word” left unchanged…now what was that again Cheney warned us about last week?
Four of its agents were detained in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 after being caught filming and apparently celebrating the terror attacks on the World Trade Center.
After being held and refusing to cooperate with government investigators, the four were turned over to immigration authorities and deported to Israel. One of the four later told Israeli radio that the “movers” with video cameras had been prepared to “document” the attacks.
Marc Raimondi, spokesman at the Dept. of Homeland Security (DHS) in Washington told AFP that both Sason and Levy “will be deported,” although he did not know their current location or status.
Raimondi said ICE had taken custody of the two individuals and simply checked their names against immigration and criminal data bases. Because nothing was found in the data bases, Raimondi said, their only crime was that they had worked illegally on visitor visas. There was no further investigation of their activities.
“Perhaps the conspiracy theory has merit,” Raimondi said when asked why Israeli agents involved in criminal activities were simply being deported on visa violations. When asked if DHS was concerned about the network of Israeli-owned moving companies in the United States, some with proven ties to Israeli intelligence, Raimondi was unable to answer.
Amazingly, leaving the word “Israel” in makes it sound like a conspiracy theory…but since they’re our allies, I wouldn’t worry too much…“Boston” has assured me this stuff happens all the time.
[quote]dylan5150 wrote:
Zeb, we all know that no women are making any decisions in Afganistan. Also, I have yet to see any women celebrating on the news in Iraq either.
Jimmy Carter showed Bush with the hostage crisis in Iran in the late 70’s that it’s better to do something than to sit back empty handed. Bush couldn’t get Bin Laden so he got Saddam.
Bush will win, even with a less than stellar economy. I know, a million and a half jobs have been created. The problem is that you need 2 or 3 of those new jobs to raise a family and buy a house.
I’m all for whacking evil dictators, so when do we go to war with China? I can be a chicken hawk like W, Cheney, and Rush now that I’m over 30. I don’t have to fight, who’s next? [/quote]
dylan5150:
It takes time my man! Were women making decisions as soon as they got the vote in the US? No! However, they can now attend school and perform other activities that were prohibited in the past. There has to be a beginning. Rome was not built in a day and neither will Afghanistan!
You obviously don’t think that Sadam was a threat to the US, I do. As long as we have that difference then we will not agree on the Iraq war.
As far as insulting the Vice President and the President of the United States, (I can be a Chicken Hawk like W, Cheney) I was disapointed. You almost got through your entire post without name calling. However, like many other liberals on the Forum you just can’t keep the hate from seeping into the post.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
I’m sure everyone has already heard of that story since it was on the AP wire back in May…but just in case you missed it on all the TV news networks I thought I’d bring it up again…surely at least it was in all the papers?
In case anyone decided to check that story out, you might notice I made a little “word switch” to it to give it a little different impact. Here is the rest of that story with that “word” left unchanged…now what was that again Cheney warned us about last week?
Four of its agents were detained in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 after being caught filming and apparently celebrating the terror attacks on the World Trade Center.
After being held and refusing to cooperate with government investigators, the four were turned over to immigration authorities and deported to Israel. One of the four later told Israeli radio that the “movers” with video cameras had been prepared to “document” the attacks.
Marc Raimondi, spokesman at the Dept. of Homeland Security (DHS) in Washington told AFP that both Sason and Levy “will be deported,” although he did not know their current location or status.
Raimondi said ICE had taken custody of the two individuals and simply checked their names against immigration and criminal data bases. Because nothing was found in the data bases, Raimondi said, their only crime was that they had worked illegally on visitor visas. There was no further investigation of their activities.
“Perhaps the conspiracy theory has merit,” Raimondi said when asked why Israeli agents involved in criminal activities were simply being deported on visa violations. When asked if DHS was concerned about the network of Israeli-owned moving companies in the United States, some with proven ties to Israeli intelligence, Raimondi was unable to answer.
Amazingly, leaving the word “Israel” in makes it sound like a conspiracy theory…but since they’re our allies, I wouldn’t worry too much…“Boston” has assured me this stuff happens all the time.[/quote]
I’m surprised you haven’t melted from the fevered pitch of your hysteria.
BTW, why have you taken to putting my screen name in quotes? Usually, this would imply that you are either quoting someone else or that the word is being used in an untraditional fashion. If you’re implying that’s not my real name, surprise, it’s a screen name… Sheesh. FYI, BTW, I’m not Jewish, even though I find your anti-Israeli conspiracy stuff amusing and somewhat troubling – troubling from a historical perspective, that is. I’m actually Presbyterian, with an Epsicopalian fiancee, and I’m 1/8 German, 1/4 Finn, and 5/8 mixed Euro mutt - and 100% American.
Now, aside from the amusing mental picture of you sitting at the keyboard in your pajamas in the wee hours of the night (given the time-stamps of your posts), charting the members of the conspiracy, sticking pushpins in a map like Russel Crowe in “A Dangerous Mind” (“Let’s see - Jews spotted over here; Someone writing think tank papers while out of government power over there… Hmm, more Jews and neocons (Heh, as if there’s a difference…) over here…”) one would think that you might be worried that this little theory of yours is becoming an obsession? You’ve managed to post this stuff on a variety of threads that have nothing to do with your theory, as well as on some that were marginally related, and you’ve started your own thread to fully expose your “insights” to the world…
At any rate, have you stopped to consider, aside from all your “facts” and the rebuttals on the various debunking sites that have been posted, how many people, from varying sides of the political aisle, would have to be involved to actually pull off a scheme such as the one your insinuating? I mean, why would the painfully bi-partisan 9/11 commission report come to conclusions that disagree with your theory? Must be part of the conspiracy.
Why would the Democrats in Congress not latch on to these “facts” and publicize these horrific crimes for the world to see and to indict President Bush and assure the Democrats sweep back into power? They must all be part of the conspiracy too.
What about John Kerry? Well, he was part of the same secret club as Bush in college – the spookily named “Skull and Bones Society” – he’s probably part of the conspiracy too (actually, he has been rather self destructive… perhaps that’s not just incompetence after all… [cue spooky music]).
What about all the people in and around the Pentagon – the workers, the responders – hell, even the people on the buses and the ones parking their cars to take the Metro (there is a big Metro stop and commuter bus depot at the Pentagon)? Yup, conspirators all.
And what about the big media? Why aren’t they reporting the “facts”? It couldn’t be that they’ve looked and decided this is a crackpot theory? No, that’s too obvious, and it would be just what THEY want you to think. Besides, the media is loathe to jump on questionable stories that might hurt the President… You know, memos, Air National Guard, rumors of cocaine use, etc. This conspiracy must have some really good controls from the corporations who run the world and the media in order to stop ALL the mainstream media sources from looking into these obvious “facts”.
Or, perhaps, this is all crackpot, tin-foil-helmet stuff that no one with anything to lose is willing to stake a reputation on. Nah, why listen to common sense?
With that, I take my leave of this conspiracy crap, though I may post a few more debunking sites on your other thread if I feel so motivated. No doubt you will continue your fevered internet crusade, but I’ve paid enough attention to you for one lifetime.
Second, I mentioned your name because in another post you said, “I’m sure it’s quite common for allies to spy on each other.”
Third, your angry, irritated denial to anything I say as conspiracy theory is very arrogant and closed-minded. And the fact that Israeli Mossad are running around the country, poking around are Nuclear sites makes me very angry and unlike YOU, I happen to be concerned enough to make it known no matter how it makes me look.
Fourth, it is know by both parties, it’s thoughout the government. The only people who speak up are the one’s about to retire. Did you ever hear of AIPAC? Of course not that’s a conspiracy theory. http://www.aipac.org/
The panel has until the end of May 2004 to complete its work, but it will spend the $3 million it was originally allotted by around August 2003 - if it doesn’t get the supplement.
The latest effort to curtail funding has angered victims of the attacks. Stephen Push, a leader of the 9/11 victims’ families, who are closely monitoring the commission.[TIME -Mar 2003] http://www.time.com/time/nation/printout/0,8816,437267,00.html
The podium at the Republican convention cost $2.5 million.
You can see they wanted the 9/11 Commission to really get the bottom of things…Helloooo, is anyone home?!
The whole exact point that I was trying to point out was that these are HUGE news stories, given the all the terrorist alerts. Doesn’t anyone want to question why it only shows up on some local-ass news station but never gets national exposure.
If you didn’t have your head under the covers hiding from the truth, you might still be awake in the wee hours as well. I could really give a shit if we have a Republican or a Democratic president, but KNOWING the depth of Israeli intelligence in our own government…and the fact that top Pentagon officials are under investigation right now for giving classified information to Israel and likely influenced the decision to go to war makes me very angry.
Only us citizens can change what’s happening in the government just by letting them know that, we know. If someone in mid-level government speaks up, his career is essentially over.
The spy investigation in the news right now should be of concern to EVERYONE. It is TREASON, plain and simple.
You slam me for spreading so-called conspiracy theories when your so deep in denial you think that a forged 30 year old document is the most important thing about this election.
They dangle this “document” in your face to distract you and then kick you right in the nuts. Open your fringin’ eyes and mind for once…WE ARE AT WAR and on the verge of WWIII and your hypnotized by this stupid document. That’s the reality…here boy, look over here, look away from the WAR.
No one seemed to be so concerned that the documents that actually got us in Iraq in the first place were FORGED!
I’ll bet you jumped on the Clinton story that he had all those people murdered and you probably told everyone you knew…Didn’t you?
What you think of me and what I say hardly matter. Some people might actually take off their “Red, white and blue” colored glasses long enough to see where we’re headed, and it’s not for our own interests.
Stop thinking EVERYTHING besides what FOX news says is the truth and look around…we happen to be on the same team believe it or not.
"Sources in the military and intelligence community have provided this news service with a profile of the suspected Israeli mole: Larry Franklin is a Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) analyst, who shifted from Cold War Soviet studies, to a specialty in Iran-Iraq.
"CBS sources say that last year the suspected spy, described as a trusted analyst at the Pentagon, turned over a presidential directive on U.S. policy toward Iran while it was, “in the draft phase when U.S. policy-makers were still debating the policy.”
This put the Israelis, according to one source, “inside the decision-making loop” so they could “try to influence the outcome.”
"The case raises another concern among investigators: Did Israel also use the analyst to try to influence U.S. policy on the war in Iraq?
With ties to top Pentagon officials Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith, the analyst was assigned to a unit within the Defense Department tasked with helping develop the Pentagon’s Iraq policy."
So the wacko people are the one’s who happen to to take the “drafted” neocon plan of total war literally because everything they wanted to happen has come true and continues to so.
You know what “BB”, I happen to hope you ARE RIGHT about everything.
[quote]ZEB
“What other war was started by a country that didn’t attack us.” Can you say “Viet Nam”? While we are on the topic of Viet Nam over American 50,000 troops were killed and guess what? We lost! By the way (as a side note) who kept sending thousands of troops to their death in Viet Nam for no good reason? Oh yes, that would be democratic President Lyndon Johnson! [/quote]
If I remember correctly North Vietnam attacked South Vietnam. So was the US the first to start hostilities? Second, to stop the spread of communism is at least a decent reason (not that I’m trying justify Vietnam) while WMDs was proven false a year after Bush said it, he could of at least made up a good reason.
Of course as long as the Iraqis dont dislike us and attack us who cares how many get blown to bits?
Poll results from CNN
47 percent – said they believed attacks against U.S. forces in Iraq could not be justified, while 52 percent said those attacks could be justified some or all of the time.
Thirty-three percent of those polled said the war had done more good than harm, while 46 percent said it had done more harm than good.
The funniest post I read today. Denouncing name calling and saying most liberals in this Forum are hateful. That takes true brilliance Zeb.
Actually we went in to Viet Nam to bail the French out. They’d been there since the 50’s. It started out that we just sent a few advisors over there, and it just kind of exponentiated after that. Talk about a conflict without an exit strategy. 50,000 soldiers died under democrat administrations. And you ABB freaks act as if Bush is Attilla the Hun.
My comment was “you just can’t keep the hate from seeping into the post.” Is that name calling? I think not. If I were to name call I would state sometihng like: “you are a hateful nasty person.” Which I did not state. If you see a vile act in front of you, and then explain that act to another, are you guilty of the performance of that act? Of course not!
Furthermore, you more or less claimed that we were not in danger of attack by Iraq, yet we attacked them. Was the US in danger of attack by North Vietnam? Of course not!
Democratic President Lyndon Johnson sent almost 50,000 men to their deaths in Viet Nam. Now that was a very bad decision. To bad you are not old enough at that time to protest that war. I assure you that war would have upset you a great deal if you had lived through it.
Finally, I question your “poll” numbers. where did you dig them up? I have not seen numbers like them. I am not stating that you made them up, I am simply wondering where you got them.
Keep in mind at the end of the day we have liberated two countries and lost (regrettably, as the loss of even one person is sad) only 1000 troops! That has never been done in the history of the world. However, don’t let the facts blind you. Keep spewing the liberal mantra. Fortuneately, most on this forum don’t buy it!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
To bad you are not old enough at that time to protest that war. I assure you that war would have upset you a great deal if you had lived through it.