Occupy Wall Street

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]HG Thrower wrote:
We now have a permanent class of recipients so large that they can vote themselves more free stuff at the expense of those of us who are productive. This is the beginning of the end IMO. Once that 47% hits 50%, we are done. It will be full-on collapse and Lord of the Flies time.[/quote]

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy. "

— Alexis de Tocqueville*

  • Or perhaps Alexander Fraser Tytler, it is unclear who came up with it first.[/quote]

Definitely a repost but worth watching in case you’ve never seen it.

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[quote]HG Thrower wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]HG Thrower wrote:

Also, just to note when you said “If you want to live in America and have a voice in how your government is run, you pay taxes.” 47% of the population doesn’t pay any federal tax, but still can vote. If you want to modify voting law so that only those who have paid in can vote on how their money is spent, I’m all for it.
[/quote]

Me like.

You dont pay, you dont play. [/quote]

And the terrorism, looting and rioting, would begin in ways we’ve never seen. Of course, that won’t happen since the above doesn’t have a chance of happening in the first place. [/quote]

Curious why you think this…if they took voting that seriously, would that not encourage them to find employment so they could pay taxes and vote?[/quote]

Voting in the west is now a fundamental human right of the citizen, regardless of tax status. This is recognized far and wide. You try to take that right away in order to secure lower taxes and reduced spending–small government–you will end up with revolution on your hands. And that revolution will easily be seduced by socialist ideology. Hell, we’d make the case for them. “The capitalists took away your RIGHT to vote!” If capitalism can’t win over the poor, then there’s nothing to do for it. It’s convince them to vote for smaller government, as poor folk, or nothing. Try to take away the vote, and the streets will be filled with fire and blood.[/quote]

I obviously wasn’t seriously calling for an end to voting rights, just pointing out a few holes in the argument. But in all seriousness, how about a tax policy that requires everyone to pay in? We now have a permanent class of recipients so large that they can vote themselves more free stuff at the expense of those of us who are productive. This is the beginning of the end IMO. Once that 47% hits 50%, we are done. It will be full-on collapse and Lord of the Flies time.[/quote]

This is what happened in Cali, right big man ?

Unions have expanded their power to the point where they can fund any candidate, Rep or Dem, even the governor, all to pass higher taxes and give more Union handouts.

Bro, we are trying to undo the Cali Dream Act, sign up and let’s wreck some shit. Go to…

www.stopab131.com

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People are getting seriously fucked up in this video…

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[quote]MaximusB wrote:

People are getting seriously fucked up in this video…[/quote]

Get them out of those streets!

367

Dude I got a hard on watching hippies get rolled up like that, that was some prime shit.

What people don’t understand is, there is no arguing with a cop. When the cop tells you to move, it’s not a request. After the shit I saw in my time in the joint, they will tune your ass up real good if you become resistive and combative. That is what these protestors learned the hard way.

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[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Dude I got a hard on watching hippies get rolled up like that, that was some prime shit.

What people don’t understand is, there is no arguing with a cop. When the cop tells you to move, it’s not a request. After the shit I saw in my time in the joint, they will tune your ass up real good if you become resistive and combative. That is what these protestors learned the hard way. [/quote]

That’s what kills me…anybody who has ever had a party broken up in college knows that when a cop tells you to disperse…it is NOT a request.

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[quote]UtahLama wrote:

That’s what kills me…anybody who has ever had a party broken up in college knows that when a cop tells you to disperse…it is NOT a request.[/quote]

I think the answer is, though, is that they understand this just fine. They aren’t naive to the dynamic of law enforcement breaking up crowds, etc. This reaction is highly intentional street theatre - their goal is to manufacture “incidents” for recording.

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yeah. Saw all this when the G20 was in Pittsburgh. Some people are idiots, some just get caught up unfortunately.

371

[quote]malonetd wrote:

[quote]Viking13 wrote:
For example, Exxon Mobile, who’s profits are still the highest in world history, paid 0 in taxes last year. 0!!! That means I paid more in taxes buying a fucking Butterfinger than all of Exxon Mobile did last year. [/quote]

You’re getting real loose with your words. I don’t know if you’re purposefully lying here or just accidentally omitting some words, but the above is completely false.[/quote]

Sorry, did a little more research and I was off but not totally wrong. Lol I sometimes get wrapped up in ranting and less on fact-checking. Thanks for pointing that out. However, in 2009 they didn’t give a dime to the IRS, and same with GE apparently…

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/04/06/90299/exxon-tax/

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[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]HG Thrower wrote:

Also, just to note when you said “If you want to live in America and have a voice in how your government is run, you pay taxes.” 47% of the population doesn’t pay any federal tax, but still can vote. If you want to modify voting law so that only those who have paid in can vote on how their money is spent, I’m all for it.
[/quote]

Me like.

You dont pay, you dont play. [/quote]

And the terrorism, looting and rioting, would begin in ways we’ve never seen. Of course, that won’t happen since the above doesn’t have a chance of happening in the first place. [/quote]

Curious why you think this…if they took voting that seriously, would that not encourage them to find employment so they could pay taxes and vote?[/quote]

Voting in the west is now a fundamental human right of the citizen, regardless of tax status. This is recognized far and wide. You try to take that right away in order to secure lower taxes and reduced spending–small government–you will end up with revolution on your hands. And that revolution will easily be seduced by socialist ideology. Hell, we’d make the case for them. “The capitalists took away your RIGHT to vote!” If capitalism can’t win over the poor, then there’s nothing to do for it. It’s convince them to vote for smaller government, as poor folk, or nothing. Try to take away the vote, and the streets will be filled with fire and blood.[/quote]

yeah like welfare is right, I don’t necessarily see complete bad in this situation. We need a correction, the same ole’ same ole’ ain’t going to bring that around.

Thomas Jefferson

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty… And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. "

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Act like a savage, get treated like one.

  • NYPD
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[quote]Viking13 wrote:

[quote]malonetd wrote:

[quote]Viking13 wrote:
For example, Exxon Mobile, who’s profits are still the highest in world history, paid 0 in taxes last year. 0!!! That means I paid more in taxes buying a fucking Butterfinger than all of Exxon Mobile did last year. [/quote]

You’re getting real loose with your words. I don’t know if you’re purposefully lying here or just accidentally omitting some words, but the above is completely false.[/quote]

Sorry, did a little more research and I was off but not totally wrong. Lol I sometimes get wrapped up in ranting and less on fact-checking. Thanks for pointing that out. However, in 2009 they didn’t give a dime to the IRS, and same with GE apparently…

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/04/06/90299/exxon-tax/[/quote]

and this is the kind reporting you get from a group like think prgress. CRAP. They did pay income tax,

but don’t let misinformation hinder your argument.

375

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

That’s what kills me…anybody who has ever had a party broken up in college knows that when a cop tells you to disperse…it is NOT a request.[/quote]

I think the answer is, though, is that they understand this just fine. They aren’t naive to the dynamic of law enforcement breaking up crowds, etc. This reaction is highly intentional street theatre - their goal is to manufacture “incidents” for recording.
[/quote]

this is exactly right. It creates a sort of “proof” of the police state promoted by these groups. Essentially, it makes for good recruiting material. Occasionally, they could be edited to make the police look especially bad. The actors in these videos use these as a sort of badge of honor, evidence of their moxie within the movement. If they are lucky, it earns them a spot on the news and brings light to the ideas they are suggesting.

376

[quote]Viking13 wrote:

[quote]malonetd wrote:

[quote]Viking13 wrote:
For example, Exxon Mobile, who’s profits are still the highest in world history, paid 0 in taxes last year. 0!!! That means I paid more in taxes buying a fucking Butterfinger than all of Exxon Mobile did last year. [/quote]

You’re getting real loose with your words. I don’t know if you’re purposefully lying here or just accidentally omitting some words, but the above is completely false.[/quote]

Sorry, did a little more research and I was off but not totally wrong. Lol I sometimes get wrapped up in ranting and less on fact-checking. Thanks for pointing that out. However, in 2009 they didn’t give a dime to the IRS, and same with GE apparently…

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/04/06/90299/exxon-tax/[/quote]

Lol at thinkprogress as a “source”.

377

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Act like a savage, get treated like one.

  • NYPD[/quote]

Perhaps the protesters should respond in kind then, because most of the violence gets started by the police officers. Not saying all police officers are bad, and they’re not really the thing the protests are fighting, but it’s interesting that they’ve already arrested way more protesters than they have Wall Street fatcats who brought down the world economy in the first place.

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Lol looks like I should insert my foot in my mouth about the whole exxon mobile thing. However, the main point I was trying to illustrate isn’t diminished just because one corporate giant actually pays it’s taxes one way or another. Widespread corruption and systemic greed (the epicenter of which can be found on Wall Street) brought down the world economy and it can only be fixed by changing how we do business. Some essential steps are eliminating the Fed or at least regulating it with extreme prejudice, ending corporate personhood and thus overturning the Citizens United Supreme Court decision, not allowing any more bailouts - if a company is insolvent it deserves to fail and start over just like any other business - and the crooks need to be held accountable. Also, regulating successful businesses is a must if we don’t want the crash of 2008 to happen again.

Simply protesting obviously won’t completely solve all these problems (or even a single one of them for that matter). However, people need to feel before they see, and protests can provide a wake up call and can be a good launching pad to making real changes.

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500×667 78.3 KB

This was posted on FB…

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[quote]Viking13 wrote:
Lol looks like I should insert my foot in my mouth about the whole exxon mobile thing. However, the main point I was trying to illustrate isn’t diminished just because one corporate giant actually pays it’s taxes one way or another. Widespread corruption and systemic greed (the epicenter of which can be found on Wall Street) brought down the world economy and it can only be fixed by changing how we do business. Some essential steps are eliminating the Fed or at least regulating it with extreme prejudice, ending corporate personhood and thus overturning the Citizens United Supreme Court decision, not allowing any more bailouts - if a company is insolvent it deserves to fail and start over just like any other business - and the crooks need to be held accountable. Also, regulating successful businesses is a must if we don’t want the crash of 2008 to happen again.

Simply protesting obviously won’t completely solve all these problems (or even a single one of them for that matter). However, people need to feel before they see, and protests can provide a wake up call and can be a good launching pad to making real changes.[/quote]

I will say it again, go protest the White House then if those are your goals, protesting at wall street wont do jack shit. Wall street didnt issue the bailouts, the white house did. Wall street didnt write a jacked up loophole ridden tax code, the IRS did.

381

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
This was posted on FB…[/quote]

I expect after this recession a lot more folks around this age (me included) will live below our means and save a lot more than our parents generation. It’s a cycle no different than that of the economy. We will act like the survivors of the depression acted and our kids will probably fuck it all up again or maybe their kids who knows. The college age Wall Street whiners are in the minority I think.