A round up of reactions to the right Rev. Wright’s speech at the National Press Club yesterday (note - this is the same speech referenced in my post above, which contains a link to its text):
http://www.volokh.com/archives/archive_2008_04_27-2008_05_03.shtml#1209419494
http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2008/04/28/roosting-season/
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/pastor-wrights-fantasy-world-of-hyperbole/
Now, quite frankly, Wright is behaving in such a ridiculous manner that one really needs to question whether he’s doing this in purpose in order to set up Obama for a denunciation of Wright - kind of an ultimate Sister Soul-jah moment - so that he can step up and receive the accolades for being in the middle and being a racial uniter instead of a divider. Why else would he be out there drawing attention to himself and repeating his most criticized claims? We’ll see…
Further to my post immediately above, the plot thickens:
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/columnists/louis/index.html
The right Rev. Wright’s speech at the National Press Club was set up by a major Hillary supporter…
[quote]Malevolence wrote:
Of course you did.[/quote]
It’s on YouTube - have a blast.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Now, quite frankly, Wright is behaving in such a ridiculous manner that one really needs to question whether he’s doing this in purpose in order to set up Obama for a denunciation of Wright - kind of an ultimate Sister Soul-jah moment - so that he can step up and receive the accolades for being in the middle and being a racial uniter instead of a divider. Why else would he be out there drawing attention to himself and repeating his most criticized claims? We’ll see…[/quote]
Reparations. Follow the money.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Now, quite frankly, Wright is behaving in such a ridiculous manner that one really needs to question whether he’s doing this in purpose in order to set up Obama for a denunciation of Wright - kind of an ultimate Sister Soul-jah moment - so that he can step up and receive the accolades for being in the middle and being a racial uniter instead of a divider. Why else would he be out there drawing attention to himself and repeating his most criticized claims? We’ll see…[/quote]
Are you a conspiracy nut?
Wright is a self-serving nut-job who is using the lime-light to push his own agenda. Remember, before this he was just some crazy-ass pastor that no one wanted to listen to. Now, all the media is flocking to him to see what dumb-ass thing he will say next.
So it doesn’t take a Phd to figure out why Wright is all over the place. It’s because the media are giving him what he has always wanted, a national pulpit to preach his shit.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Malevolence wrote:
Of course you did.
It’s on YouTube - have a blast.[/quote]
I’m thinking my joke was missed. I was making fun of the fact that you only watched ‘clips of it’, a common theme of late with regards to the reverend.
[quote]Malevolence wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Malevolence wrote:
Of course you did.
It’s on YouTube - have a blast.
I’m thinking my joke was missed. I was making fun of the fact that you only watched ‘clips of it’, a common theme of late with regards to the reverend. [/quote]
Who in their right mind would watch more than clips of him?
Not at all - there are a very limited number of players here, so it wouldn’t require a 9/11 level of ridiculousness for two people (or a few more, counting higher-ups in the campaign) to coordinate.
At any rate, it was just one possible explanation for seemingly irrational behavior. One of the other explanations is that he is consciously trying to hurt Obama’s chances - but that would go against what we otherwise think. Another explanation is that Wright is either indifferent to his effect on Obama or completely incorrect in his calculation on his effect on Obama. I’m leaning that way too, particularly due to the fact his Press Club address was organized by an ardent Hillary supporter - and Wright agreed. He strikes me as someone who overestimates his own intelligence.
And, just to note, you’re quite incorrect - he certainly was not someone no one wanted to listen to. He was a local political power and religious leader of a large congregation for decades - so much so that an aspiring Illinois politician would have chosen him for a mentor…
Alternatively to your explanation but still in the same ballpark, he’s someone who used to have a large audience on a weekly basis but has been retired and missed the spotlight, so is engaging in attention-seeking behavior.
[quote]
Malevolence wrote:
Of course you did.
thunderbolt23 wrote:
It’s on YouTube - have a blast.
Malevolence wrote:
I’m thinking my joke was missed. I was making fun of the fact that you only watched ‘clips of it’, a common theme of late with regards to the reverend. [/quote]
Yes, you’re right - how horrible and completely unfair to not refer to the entirety of his statements, even though they’re part of monologues he wrote and the context doesn’t change the meaning. Now about George W. Bush…
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
Now, quite frankly, Wright is behaving in such a ridiculous manner that one really needs to question whether he’s doing this in purpose in order to set up Obama for a denunciation of Wright - kind of an ultimate Sister Soul-jah moment - so that he can step up and receive the accolades for being in the middle and being a racial uniter instead of a divider. Why else would he be out there drawing attention to himself and repeating his most criticized claims? We’ll see…
Lorisco wrote:
Are you a conspiracy nut?
Wright is a self-serving nut-job who is using the lime-light to push his own agenda. Remember, before this he was just some crazy-ass pastor that no one wanted to listen to. Now, all the media is flocking to him to see what dumb-ass thing he will say next.
So it doesn’t take a Phd to figure out why Wright is all over the place. It’s because the media are giving him what he has always wanted, a national pulpit to preach his shit.
Not at all - there are a very limited number of players here, so it wouldn’t require a 9/11 level of ridiculousness for two people (or a few more, counting higher-ups in the campaign) to coordinate.
At any rate, it was just one possible explanation for seemingly irrational behavior. One of the other explanations is that he is consciously trying to hurt Obama’s chances - but that would go against what we otherwise think. Another explanation is that Wright is either indifferent to his effect on Obama or completely incorrect in his calculation on his effect on Obama. I’m leaning that way too, particularly due to the fact his Press Club address was organized by an ardent Hillary supporter - and Wright agreed. He strikes me as someone who overestimates his own intelligence.
And, just to note, you’re quite incorrect - he certainly was not someone no one wanted to listen to. He was a local political power and religious leader of a large congregation for decades - so much so that an aspiring Illinois politician would have chosen him for a mentor…
Alternatively to your explanation but still in the same ballpark, he’s someone who used to have a large audience on a weekly basis but has been retired and missed the spotlight, so is engaging in attention-seeking behavior.[/quote]
Well, a point for the original theory: Obama tries to disclaim Wright ( Obama’s Remarks on Wright - The New York Times ). However, he’s a day late, a dollar short, and far too lawyerly (see here: Althouse: Did Obama "denounce Wright"? ; http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODY4NzQ3ODE0NTUyNjY1MTFkZTBiZDI0NzBiZjM0ODQ= ) However, assuming Obama is as smart as advertised, which I am prepared to do, this might also be taken as evidence he was unprepared for the latest Wright explosion and needed to make a quick statement.
Here’s a take that it’s too late for Obama to disown Wright, which would also buttress the idea that there hasn’t been any coordination between Wright and Obama on Wright’s outbursts:
[i]Eugene Robinson’s thoughtful column ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/28/AR2008042802102.html ) on the Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s latest eruptions ends with a bit of advice for Senator Obama: “Politically, by surfacing now, [Wright] was throwing Barack Obama under the bus. Sadly, it’s time for Obama to return the favor.”
Actually, it is well past that time. Obama has distanced himself from controversial remarks of the pastor, and he continues to do that. But how could he justify disowning the man himself? He said before that he could no more do that than he could disown the black community. And it’s not as though Wright has suddenly said something more outrageous than he said earlier. If Obama couldn’t bring himself to repudiate Wright for praying that God would “damn America,” can he really repudiate him for becoming a more serious inconvenience to his campaign?
Any further move by Obama against Wright will look like (and be) a political rather than a moral decision. Obama has already made his bed on this issue. [/i]
This is particularly true because Wright really didn’t say much that was new in his speech at the Press Club - he just reiterated his known positions.
Of course, if that’s true, the best thing Obama could have done would have been to denounce Wright right away when this first came up. The second best thing, politically, would have been to tell the truth (what I think is the truth anyway): Obama developed his relationship with Wright out of political expediency ( a similar opinion expressed here: http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OTk3NjdjNGM1YjU1MWFlOTNhMDFlYzBhNmRkOTQ3ZjQ= )- Wright was a racial/political power broker in local Chicago ward politics, and Obama needed support to get his political career off the ground.
This is a great take on how this looks because Obama didn’t distance himself from Wright immediately, and made that speech saying disowning Wright would be tantamount to disowning the black community:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YmY1ZmE0YTQ3ZWQwNmMzMDMwMjNlNDMwZDcxNDYyOTc=
[i]Obama, Wright, and Honesty [Rich Lowry]
What’s been most disturbing about this entire episode is how dishonest Obama has been, from his pretense that he didn’t know about Wright’s radicalism to his excuse now that Wright has somehow become a different person. How insulting that he thinks we’d buy any of this. I was struck in the FNS interview how, when asked what controversial statements he had heard from Wright, he said Wright would talk “about some of the problems in the black community in very controversial ways.” He probably did�??but these were the most controversial things Obama heard? He was obviously trimming, trying to make Wright sound like an equal-opportunity hater. The simple thing for Obama to have done would have been to tell the truth from the beginning and say that he had made a mistake in staying at the church for so long, but he did so for complicated reasons that he could have spelled out in eloquent terms that would have made the press swoon. Instead, he did his dance in Philadelphia and uttered that line that will now haunt him. So now is Obama disowning the black community?[/i]
Will this all pass? Maybe. But Obama’s honesty has been seriously damaged - and the idea that he was a somehow transcendant politician, beyond lying and pandering, was a large part of his campaign.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
…
Will this all pass? Maybe. But Obama’s honesty has been seriously damaged - and the idea that he was a somehow transcendant politician, beyond lying and pandering, was a large part of his campaign.[/quote]
Exactly. He has handled this very poorly and dishonestly.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
…
Will this all pass? Maybe. But Obama’s honesty has been seriously damaged - and the idea that he was a somehow transcendant politician, beyond lying and pandering, was a large part of his campaign.
Exactly. He has handled this very poorly and dishonestly.[/quote]
A thoughtful blog–on political narcissism, pluralism and race-- from he NYT today:
[i]Yes, Jeremiah Wright is an egotist and a very cantankerous, if brilliant, personality. Obama has known that for surely all but 10 minutes of the 20 years that he�??s been associated with Trinity and its charismatic pastor. But, hey, that charismatic and influential personality and ministry is exactly why Obama chose Trinity and hung around for so long; it was politically useful, even necessary, for a neophyte to the Chicago political scene to build such an association
As narcissistic as Rev. Wright can be, realize that the whole Obama premise is itself an exercise in narcissism. It is narcissistic to assume that one can come from nowhere with a thin resume of legislative accomplishment, no history of leadership of peers, and no executive experience to assume that one should run for the highest office of the land on a framework that divorces itself from any tangible acknowledgment of concerns specific to the very kinds African American inner city constituents - of actually a wide cross-section of economic strata - that he has represented for 8 plus years locally in Illinois. It is narcissistic to assume that the somewhat unorthodox nature of one�??s personal biography is all that it should take to wrestle with and vanquish the inter-connectedness of historic divisions of race, class, and religion in our country.
The ideal of overcoming these is definitely to be sought for. But the attainment is through the building of operational, working bridges, not just making pretty speeches that, while at some level (the political) true and inspiring, are at baseline devoid of the kind of grounding in realistic perspective or point-of-view from practical experience that would be needed truly to secure the ideal. The whole ideal of this �??transcendence�?? is replete with the narcissistic sense of being horribly special and apart from, if not above, it all.
And finally it is narcissistic for African Americans to need to have an African American president so badly, no matter how under prepared and incompletely grounded, that they completely fail to grasp the costs that the candidate could be asking them to pay for his own personal exaltation.
What is happening now, is what should have happened months ago. That is an open, full, and honest discussion of what the opportunities AND costs would be for African Americans and for the nation as a whole in embracing the Obama conjecture. If, after some discussion, the conjecture still reverberated with deep meaning, then fine, get on board everybody.
But we never should have pretended that there was no discussion needed - that Barack had solved it all for us. In case you have not surmised, though I think that you have, I too am African American.
James
[/i]
Obama is trying to claim he never referred to Wright as a “spiritual mentor” or “spiritual advisor” and it’s all the press’s fault for misreporting.
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1209531850.shtml
Again, if it is true he never said “quote unquote spiritual advisor or spiritual mentor” he’s being way too lawyerly again - he’s obviously said advisor and mentor - what was it, political advisor or mentor?
Jim Lindgren speculates that the only thing that really set Obama off this time was a perceived personal insult, given none of Wright’s outrageous statements was new:
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1209511250.shtml
EXCERPT:
[i]Obama’s sense of outrage over Rev. Wright’s remarks now seems genuine.
But why?
Most of what Obama points to (AIDS, Farrakhan, etc.) was said before, as Obama well knew.
What pushed Obama over the edge seems to have been the insult to him personally, not the outrageousness of Wright’s views ( Obama’s Remarks on Wright - The New York Times ):
[quote] OBAMA: And what I think particularly angered me was his suggestion somehow that my previous denunciation of his remarks were somehow political posturing. Anybody who knows me and anybody who knows what I’m about knows that �?? that I am about trying to bridge gaps and that I see the �?? the commonality in all people. . . .
I want to use this press conference to make people absolutely clear that obviously whatever relationship I had with Reverend Wright has changed as a consequence of this. I don't think that he showed much concern for me. I don't �?? more importantly, I don't think he showed much concern for what we are trying to do in this campaign and what we're trying to do for the American people and with the American people.
And obviously, he's free to speak out on issues that are of concern to him and he can do it in any ways that he wants. But I feel very strongly that �?? well, I want to make absolutely clear that I do not subscribe to the views that he expressed. I believe they are wrong. I think they are destructive. And to the extent that he continues to speak out, I do not expect those views to be attributed to me. . . .
But at a certain point, if what somebody says contradicts what you believe so fundamentally, and then he questions whether or not you believe it in front of the National Press Club, then that's enough. That's �?? that's a show of disrespect to me. It's a �?? it is also, I think, an insult to what we've been trying to do in this campaign. . . .[/quote]
…
[/i]
ADDENDUM:
Michael Young makes essentially the same point over at Reason:
Well, this certainly was amazingly prescient - one might even say eerily prescient (or one might think someone from the Obama campaign reads NRO) - note the date:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MTdmMmJmOWFlZDZkOGUyOTgwNTYyMjQ3YmRlNTAzZjE=
[i]Tuesday, March 18, 2008
Obama’s Pastor Plan [Amy Holmes]
I just figured out how Obama gets out of this. It’s devious. But it may be only way.
He leaves this thing alone for the time being and suffers through the next few primaries. He hangs onto his pledged delegate lead, makes the argument that pledged delegates are all that matter. So far, polling shows Democratic voters agree.
He prevails and wins the nomination. Then, he deploys The Pastor Plan. It goes like this. Pastor Wright arranges to give a speech. In it, the pastor makes such outlandish and slanderous claims, not unlike we’ve already heard, that Obama has no choice but to say, “Enough! Jeremiah has gone too far. I cannot abide his divisive, harmful, and inappropriate language. He does not speak for me or my family which is why we must, with heavy hearts, sever our relationship. He will always be a friend and welcome at my door. But I cannot continue to take his counsel, religious or otherwise.” It helps here if the pastor has used some swear words and invented new conspiracies.
Obama sends Pastor Wright a heartfelt letter, more in sorrow than in anger, which he posts on his website. He holds a press conference to inform the public that he has spoken with the pastor privately and explained his position. Obama vows to carry on the church’s work of charity and compassion. He stages some events showing him involved in a multicultural community service project, visits a West Virginia coal mine, stuff like that. And he exhorts his fellow Americans to join him in the journey toward racial reconciliation.
Timing is key. Sometime right after the inevitable 527 Pastor Wright ads start running. In fact, they can be the pretext of the pastor’s speech. The 527 ads provoke the Reverend’s fury. Obama reacts. Bam! It’s over. Pastor problem solved.
Think the Clintons wouldn’t do it?
03/18 11:28 PM[/i]
[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
…
Will this all pass? Maybe. But Obama’s honesty has been seriously damaged - and the idea that he was a somehow transcendant politician, beyond lying and pandering, was a large part of his campaign.
Exactly. He has handled this very poorly and dishonestly.
A thoughtful blog–on political narcissism, pluralism and race-- from he NYT today:
[i]Yes, Jeremiah Wright is an egotist and a very cantankerous, if brilliant, personality. Obama has known that for surely all but 10 minutes of the 20 years that he�??s been associated with Trinity and its charismatic pastor. But, hey, that charismatic and influential personality and ministry is exactly why Obama chose Trinity and hung around for so long; it was politically useful, even necessary, for a neophyte to the Chicago political scene to build such an association
As narcissistic as Rev. Wright can be, realize that the whole Obama premise is itself an exercise in narcissism. It is narcissistic to assume that one can come from nowhere with a thin resume of legislative accomplishment, no history of leadership of peers, and no executive experience to assume that one should run for the highest office of the land on a framework that divorces itself from any tangible acknowledgment of concerns specific to the very kinds African American inner city constituents - of actually a wide cross-section of economic strata - that he has represented for 8 plus years locally in Illinois. It is narcissistic to assume that the somewhat unorthodox nature of one�??s personal biography is all that it should take to wrestle with and vanquish the inter-connectedness of historic divisions of race, class, and religion in our country.
The ideal of overcoming these is definitely to be sought for. But the attainment is through the building of operational, working bridges, not just making pretty speeches that, while at some level (the political) true and inspiring, are at baseline devoid of the kind of grounding in realistic perspective or point-of-view from practical experience that would be needed truly to secure the ideal. The whole ideal of this �??transcendence�?? is replete with the narcissistic sense of being horribly special and apart from, if not above, it all.
And finally it is narcissistic for African Americans to need to have an African American president so badly, no matter how under prepared and incompletely grounded, that they completely fail to grasp the costs that the candidate could be asking them to pay for his own personal exaltation.
What is happening now, is what should have happened months ago. That is an open, full, and honest discussion of what the opportunities AND costs would be for African Americans and for the nation as a whole in embracing the Obama conjecture. If, after some discussion, the conjecture still reverberated with deep meaning, then fine, get on board everybody.
But we never should have pretended that there was no discussion needed - that Barack had solved it all for us. In case you have not surmised, though I think that you have, I too am African American.
James
[/i][/quote]
Running for president is a narcissistic enterprise…
Who would have thunk…
Who will have Obama’s ear in the White House?
Such a thought should cause anyone to think long and hard before voting for him.
McCain is beginning to look more and more appealing to me.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
Now, quite frankly, Wright is behaving in such a ridiculous manner that one really needs to question whether he’s doing this in purpose in order to set up Obama for a denunciation of Wright - kind of an ultimate Sister Soul-jah moment - so that he can step up and receive the accolades for being in the middle and being a racial uniter instead of a divider. Why else would he be out there drawing attention to himself and repeating his most criticized claims? We’ll see…
Lorisco wrote:
Are you a conspiracy nut?
Wright is a self-serving nut-job who is using the lime-light to push his own agenda. Remember, before this he was just some crazy-ass pastor that no one wanted to listen to. Now, all the media is flocking to him to see what dumb-ass thing he will say next.
So it doesn’t take a Phd to figure out why Wright is all over the place. It’s because the media are giving him what he has always wanted, a national pulpit to preach his shit.
Not at all - there are a very limited number of players here, so it wouldn’t require a 9/11 level of ridiculousness for two people (or a few more, counting higher-ups in the campaign) to coordinate.
At any rate, it was just one possible explanation for seemingly irrational behavior. One of the other explanations is that he is consciously trying to hurt Obama’s chances - but that would go against what we otherwise think. Another explanation is that Wright is either indifferent to his effect on Obama or completely incorrect in his calculation on his effect on Obama. I’m leaning that way too, particularly due to the fact his Press Club address was organized by an ardent Hillary supporter - and Wright agreed. He strikes me as someone who overestimates his own intelligence.
And, just to note, you’re quite incorrect - he certainly was not someone no one wanted to listen to. He was a local political power and religious leader of a large congregation for decades - so much so that an aspiring Illinois politician would have chosen him for a mentor…
Alternatively to your explanation but still in the same ballpark, he’s someone who used to have a large audience on a weekly basis but has been retired and missed the spotlight, so is engaging in attention-seeking behavior.[/quote]
Wright has not had national media attention before this so my position still stands that he is using this opportunity to further his agenda on a national level. I think he doesn’t care how it affects Obama.
And as for your conspiracy theory, if that is correct they are all idiots, as even if Obama strongly denounces Wright, it’s too late and Wright has and will continue to damage his campaign.