[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
jawara wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I understand, I have been here 26 years. I personally think the cheapest way to handle the problem is fine the empoyres . That fense will be expensive to build and expensive to maintain
Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t business’ that hire illegals supposed to fined? I so we just need to enforce the current immigration laws.
The laws are as loose as a hooker on special down in TJ. [/quote]
Ok, didnt know that.
[quote]streamline wrote:
It’s a “Catch 22”. If there was a successful stoppage of illegal immigrants. Then there would be a huge out cry as the price of produce goes through the roof. I’m sure there is a solution but this has been going on for so long the corruption must be huge by now. If you want the answer follow the money.[/quote]
Get the homeless and encarceratied to do it. Vegtables have were picked by people a long time ago, and I’m sure they were cheaper back in the fifties than they are today.
[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
~A fully armed military presence along our southern border to coincide with the fence, and give them the authority to enforce the border with lethal force.
Yeah that’s going to look great when a bunch of weekend soldiers kill a bunch of women and children. [/quote]
The physical presence of the fence, along with the known presence of increased militarization of the border, should be plenty of forewarning for any “innocents”. Do you think that the US doesn’t have a right to enforce it’s borders?
[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
PB-Crawl wrote:
Growing_Boy wrote:
streamline wrote:
It’s a “Catch 22”. If there was a successful stoppage of illegal immigrants. Then there would be a huge out cry as the price of produce goes through the roof. I’m sure there is a solution but this has been going on for so long the corruption must be huge by now. If you want the answer follow the money.
DER, just do what we were doing before and have our college students pick lettuce in the summer. In the valley with 120 degrees in the shade.
hah you dont even have to get that extreme.
how about dig some ditches for a plumber as a pre-apprentice
how about set up some dry wall?
dig out pools?
people in my generation think summers are meant for trips to cancun or a tourist in europe. not get any sense of real life or work related experience.
then again when has the united states ever not put use a huge source of foreign cheap labor?
now that illegal labor is breaking into services that have been long dominated by whites, like skilled construction, were hearing a bigger uproar.
my dry wall buddies bitch all the time about losing jobs to outfits that dont hide the fact that they hire illegals, ala underbidding by huge amounts. then again they also like to brag about drinking on the job, leaving a site several hours early and not having any real consequence for it, ripping dumb people off for materials, doing shoddy jobs when the person wouldn’t know any better.
hard to compete against people who do your same job in half the time, a third of the cost, and better quality.
we had a huge bust of contractors working without licenses a few years back. not coincidentally their jobs costs were way lower than the rest.
part of the solution is a real attitude adjustment in the US on the part of workers and companys.
I personally think the younger generation should be all over this if you expect to have a working American class, they are not just picking produce, they are retailers, construction workers, Business owners, and yes some of these business owners are illegals. One of the biggest assaults I think, on are truck drivers. You have an industry that is critical to America�¢??s well being. For an American to get into the business of truck driving it can cost you a hundred grand, there are members of our government that want to keep the price of hauling beat down so far that it is near impossible to make a living, what is their answer, to allow Mexican trucks in to further suppress the industry.
well yea people eventually figured out they can just forgo the free market and pull govn’t strings to ensure constant high profits. if theres no economic incentive to compete, why bother?[/quote]
You will have to excuse me, I can not figure out if you think the completion from Mexican trucks is good or if you think that Mexican labor is superior. Just asking for a clarification
This is complete bullshit. If you spent half the time reading that you claim you do, you wouldn’t make nearly as many mistakes. Most illegal immigrants are fairly young, and ineligible for many benefits. In fact, in the aggregate, they tend to use much less in government services than other households. It’s true that many times they use more in local services than they pay, but so do many natives. They also pay in more on a federal level than they use.
“On average, the costs that illegal households impose on federal coffers are less than half that of other households, but their tax payments are only one-fourth that of other households.”
“With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.”
“Do undocumented immigrants pay enough in taxes to cover the services used? For undocumented immigrants, the answer is unclear. However, for legal immigrants, studies have shown that first-generation immigrants pay more in federal taxes than they receive in federal benefits. The same does not hold true for state taxes and services, however, as first-generation immigrants often use more in services than they pay in taxes…Each generation successively contributes a greater share due to increased wages, language skills, and education.”
http://www.gbpi.org/pubs/garevenue/20060119.pdf
Oops! Except that that’s exactly what happens in real life.
[quote]Again, OUR CURRENT SPENDING, DEBT, AND UNFUNDED LIABILITIES ARE NOT SUPPORTABLE WITH ANY REALISTIC ECONOMIC MODEL. PERIOD. THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL ARGUMENT.
[/quote]
Bullshit again. That’s ALL it is, because any attempt at a real solution would have to acknowledge far-reaching, fundamental problems with our system.
[quote]orion wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
It’s got to be a multi faceted approach to fix this nightmare problem. I’m talking about:
~A fence, yes, a big damn fence.
~A fully armed military presence along our southern border to coincide with the fence, and give them the authority to enforce the border with lethal force.
~Amazingly large fines for employers who hire illegal immigrants. We need to take away the jobs.
~NO benefits to the illegals whatsoever. I mean seriously, isn’t this a no brainer?
D-D-R! D-D-R! D-D…
um, sorry–
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A![/quote]
Like it or not Orion; a nation has the right, and responsibility to it’s citizens, to enforce it’s borders and control the ebb and flow of immigrants. Sorry if that chaffs you.
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
orion wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
It’s got to be a multi faceted approach to fix this nightmare problem. I’m talking about:
~A fence, yes, a big damn fence.
~A fully armed military presence along our southern border to coincide with the fence, and give them the authority to enforce the border with lethal force.
~Amazingly large fines for employers who hire illegal immigrants. We need to take away the jobs.
~NO benefits to the illegals whatsoever. I mean seriously, isn’t this a no brainer?
D-D-R! D-D-R! D-D…
um, sorry–
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Like it or not Orion; a nation has the right, and responsibility to it’s citizens, to enforce it’s borders and control the ebb and flow of immigrants. Sorry if that chaffs you.
[/quote]
Sure, but your nation does not have the resources to live that right.
Bummer.
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Bullshit again. That’s ALL it is, because any attempt at a real solution would have to acknowledge far-reaching, fundamental problems with our system.
[/quote]
True.
Let´s kill the Fed and the fractional reserve system.
I do not want to learn Mandarin.
Guns on the Border - shoot to warn, then shoot to kill . . . actions have consequences, the more serious the consequence, the less likely the action . . .
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
Guns on the Border - shoot to warn, then shoot to kill . . . actions have consequences, the more serious the consequence, the less likely the action . . .[/quote]
Amen Irish, you start shooting bullets at people and they start to rethink some shit.
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Growing_Boy wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
~A fully armed military presence along our southern border to coincide with the fence, and give them the authority to enforce the border with lethal force.
Yeah that’s going to look great when a bunch of weekend soldiers kill a bunch of women and children.
The physical presence of the fence, along with the known presence of increased militarization of the border, should be plenty of forewarning for any “innocents”. Do you think that the US doesn’t have a right to enforce it’s borders?
[/quote]
No I do. Don’t get me wrong I was ready to kill when those (insert racial slur for Middle Eastern) hit us. I think homeland security should be a top priority, but when was the last time a god damn (insert racial slur for Middle Eastern) crossed the U.S/Mexico border with a bunch of his homies armed to the teeth and with a bomb strapped to their chest? I think their should be an increase of patrolmen at the border. Some of them already commit plenty of atrocities against border crossers under neath the table, I couldn’t begin to imagine the level of carnage that will occur if it becomes militarized. Of course, none of you will hear this. If they are going to hit us, they wont use the US/Mexico border.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
Guns on the Border - shoot to warn, then shoot to kill . . . actions have consequences, the more serious the consequence, the less likely the action . . .
Amen Irish, you start shooting bullets at people and they start to rethink some shit. [/quote]
Maybe they learn themselves somethin’
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
Guns on the Border - shoot to warn, then shoot to kill . . . actions have consequences, the more serious the consequence, the less likely the action . . .
Amen Irish, you start shooting bullets at people and they start to rethink some shit. [/quote]
You know what would be even better? Make a boarder amusment park. Let people fire rubber bullets at them. They probably won’t die but it would certainly be a deterant. Shit, the money you charge to shoot at them could fund boarder security.
[quote]orion wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
orion wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
It’s got to be a multi faceted approach to fix this nightmare problem. I’m talking about:
~A fence, yes, a big damn fence.
~A fully armed military presence along our southern border to coincide with the fence, and give them the authority to enforce the border with lethal force.
~Amazingly large fines for employers who hire illegal immigrants. We need to take away the jobs.
~NO benefits to the illegals whatsoever. I mean seriously, isn’t this a no brainer?
D-D-R! D-D-R! D-D…
um, sorry–
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Like it or not Orion; a nation has the right, and responsibility to it’s citizens, to enforce it’s borders and control the ebb and flow of immigrants. Sorry if that chaffs you.
Sure, but your nation does not have the resources to live that right.
Bummer.
[/quote]
We have a difference of opinion then.
[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
Growing_Boy wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
~A fully armed military presence along our southern border to coincide with the fence, and give them the authority to enforce the border with lethal force.
Yeah that’s going to look great when a bunch of weekend soldiers kill a bunch of women and children.
The physical presence of the fence, along with the known presence of increased militarization of the border, should be plenty of forewarning for any “innocents”. Do you think that the US doesn’t have a right to enforce it’s borders?
No I do. Don’t get me wrong I was ready to kill when those (insert racial slur for Middle Eastern) hit us. I think homeland security should be a top priority, but when was the last time a god damn (insert racial slur for Middle Eastern) crossed the U.S/Mexico border with a bunch of his homies armed to the teeth and with a bomb strapped to their chest? I think their should be an increase of patrolmen at the border. Some of them already commit plenty of atrocities against border crossers under neath the table, I couldn’t begin to imagine the level of carnage that will occur if it becomes militarized. Of course, none of you will hear this. If they are going to hit us, they wont use the US/Mexico border. [/quote]
As porous as the border is, I believe they will. Our lack of security over the years has made for the potential of an increase in terror cells nation wide. Cell members just waiting for the call. We of course, have no idea, because we have no means of control on this border (who, what, where, when, etc.) Like McCain said, high fences and wide gates. I’d be one of the first to attest to the workmanship and work ethic of Mexican labor. My brother worked concrete for a long time, and he swore by Mexican labor. He would get pissed when he would find proof that they were illegal and have to let them go. So the answer, as I’ve already stated, is multi faceted. One of the important facets being the aggressive courtship of legal immigrant labor. All of the points above need to come together so as to create an environment where it makes no sense to come into our country any other way but through legal process.
We need to remember however, that in the post 9/11 world, open borders are not an option. It’s a national security thing above all else.
[quote]jawara wrote:
streamline wrote:
It’s a “Catch 22”. If there was a successful stoppage of illegal immigrants. Then there would be a huge out cry as the price of produce goes through the roof. I’m sure there is a solution but this has been going on for so long the corruption must be huge by now. If you want the answer follow the money.
Get the homeless and encarceratied to do it. Vegtables have were picked by people a long time ago, and I’m sure they were cheaper back in the fifties than they are today.[/quote]
I’ve already mentioned this and had someone say I’m an idiot for wanting slavery. Thank goodness Tgunslinger saved the day by posting the whole amendment that someone else was trying to paraphrase. It would be quite legal to force prisoners to work farms, on the other hand homeless people would have to voluntarily sign up for this. I doubt many homeless people would be willing to support themselves in this manner.
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
As porous as the border is, I believe they will. Our lack of security over the years has made for the potential of an increase in terror cells nation wide. Cell members just waiting for the call. We of course, have no idea, because we have no means of control on this border (who, what, where, when, etc.) Like McCain said, high fences and wide gates. I’d be one of the first to attest to the workmanship and work ethic of Mexican labor. My brother worked concrete for a long time, and he swore by Mexican labor. He would get pissed when he would find proof that they were illegal and have to let them go. So the answer, as I’ve already stated, is multi faceted. One of the important facets being the aggressive courtship of legal immigrant labor. All of the points above need to come together so as to create an environment where it makes no sense to come into our country any other way but through legal process.
We need to remember however, that in the post 9/11 world, open borders are not an option. It’s a national security thing above all else.
[/quote]
You’re probably right. Get a camel out there on that badboy and those fuckers will probably be right at home.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
Guns on the Border - shoot to warn, then shoot to kill . . . actions have consequences, the more serious the consequence, the less likely the action . . .
Amen Irish, you start shooting bullets at people and they start to rethink some shit.
You know what would be even better? Make a boarder amusment park. Let people fire rubber bullets at them. They probably won’t die but it would certainly be a deterant. Shit, the money you charge to shoot at them could fund boarder security.[/quote]
FTW
[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
As porous as the border is, I believe they will. Our lack of security over the years has made for the potential of an increase in terror cells nation wide. Cell members just waiting for the call. We of course, have no idea, because we have no means of control on this border (who, what, where, when, etc.) Like McCain said, high fences and wide gates. I’d be one of the first to attest to the workmanship and work ethic of Mexican labor. My brother worked concrete for a long time, and he swore by Mexican labor. He would get pissed when he would find proof that they were illegal and have to let them go. So the answer, as I’ve already stated, is multi faceted. One of the important facets being the aggressive courtship of legal immigrant labor. All of the points above need to come together so as to create an environment where it makes no sense to come into our country any other way but through legal process.
We need to remember however, that in the post 9/11 world, open borders are not an option. It’s a national security thing above all else.
You’re probably right. Get a camel out there on that badboy and those fuckers will probably be right at home.
[/quote]
LOL Well, we’re both probably well aware that the average honkey couldn’t tell the difference between a Mexican, Guatemalan, Iraqi, Pakistani, whatever. It wouldn’t be too hard at all. I believe there were memo’s about this from the CIA or FBI at one time as well concerning the use of the southern border to enter the US. Follow up on intel I think. I’ll try to find that.
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
orion wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
orion wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
It’s got to be a multi faceted approach to fix this nightmare problem. I’m talking about:
~A fence, yes, a big damn fence.
~A fully armed military presence along our southern border to coincide with the fence, and give them the authority to enforce the border with lethal force.
~Amazingly large fines for employers who hire illegal immigrants. We need to take away the jobs.
~NO benefits to the illegals whatsoever. I mean seriously, isn’t this a no brainer?
D-D-R! D-D-R! D-D…
um, sorry–
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Like it or not Orion; a nation has the right, and responsibility to it’s citizens, to enforce it’s borders and control the ebb and flow of immigrants. Sorry if that chaffs you.
Sure, but your nation does not have the resources to live that right.
Bummer.
We have a difference of opinion then.
[/quote]
You know your latest budget figures?
You do not think that Obama will stumble about the end of 1 million rainbows and find the pots of gold?
For if not I can not figure out how you could possibly think that the US is not broke?